7D consistenly OOF when using zone AF or 19-point auto selection

...if your AF stops working when you are in those in-between focal lengths. It would explain the misfocused images you are getting. I would definitely ship the lens to Canon for a check up.

Good Luck!

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Olga
 
I suppose there could be something going on with your equipment, but I just don't trust zone AF or 19 point AF in one shot mode. Each point's area of coverage extends to it's adjacent points. Combine this with the rule that says focus on the nearest object and you get screwy results. According to the EXIF on your original shot, the body had a focus lock. If it didn't, the shutter would not have released.

I never use zone or 19 point in one shot mode. I've tried those modes and felt a severe lack of confidence and control over the focus. They are, however, very useful in AI Servo mode.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/39169343@N04/
 
If there is a general problem with 7D - then all people having the problem should "put it up" on the forum.

If it is false alarm - fine.
But we have to keep Canon on the fire.
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Mike the Viking
 
You think it is the lens that makes 7D AF to stop function.
I thought the same about my first 24-105.

I have followed your posts on this forum and you seem to know a lot.

Are you sure there is no problem with the 7D? It would make me more comfortable with mine-
--
Mike the Viking
 
You think it is the lens that makes 7D AF to stop function.
I thought the same about my first 24-105.
The AF is a function of the lens. If it stops working it's best to try it on another camera to confirm whether it's the lens or perhaps the communication with the camera. Absent a 2nd camera test, I would always put the onus on the lens first.
Are you sure there is no problem with the 7D? It would make me more comfortable with mine-
I cannot be sure of what Grumpy's problem is. All I can do is speculate based on my experience with my 7D and my 24-105. All I know for sure is that I have not come across such problem as Grumpy has described.

--
Olga
 
I have had similar issues. I was shooting in AIServo mode mostly. In talking to Canon, they said that my problem was that I did not have focus lock. Turns out they say that in AIServo, you need to hold the focus button down (if focus is not linked to your shutter button) while taking the shot. On my 40D and 1DMKII releasing the button is not a problem. Lock seems to be maintained. Perhaps it was the tracking algorythm on the 7D that made me loose focus when I released the button. Its hard for me to remember to do but it does seem to help.

FWIW
 
Think about it. in the old days with film cameras and manual focussing, you focussed on one thing, the thing that you wanted in focus. Step forward twenty years and we have auto focussing. Today we have a camera that has 19 focussing points nd one of them focusses something for you. What is all that about, it's a lottery.

Forget 19 point and use spot focussing. i have a 7D and i have never used 19 point focussing. you may as well do the lottery. Whichever nerd came up with it should be fired.

19 point is for the photographer who doesn't know what he wants to focus on so lets the camera choose.
Jules

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Julesarnia on twitter
 
Think about it. in the old days with film cameras and manual focussing, you focussed on one thing, the thing that you wanted in focus. Step forward twenty years and we have auto focussing. Today we have a camera that has 19 focussing points nd one of them focusses something for you. What is all that about, it's a lottery.

Forget 19 point and use spot focussing. i have a 7D and i have never used 19 point focussing. you may as well do the lottery. Whichever nerd came up with it should be fired.

19 point is for the photographer who doesn't know what he wants to focus on so lets the camera choose.
Jules

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Julesarnia on twitter
Jules that's only true in"one shot" focus.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=35891748
--
Brian Schneider

 
In one shot mode, I totally agree with you and only use single point or spot focus (depending on the subject). However, it can be useful in AI Servo mode for moving objects with a relatively clear background such as BIFs in the sky. It can really help the photographer track a fast moving object and keep it in focus. When used in this manner, have read good things about it from some very experienced BIF photographers here.
Think about it. in the old days with film cameras and manual focussing, you focussed on one thing, the thing that you wanted in focus. Step forward twenty years and we have auto focussing. Today we have a camera that has 19 focussing points nd one of them focusses something for you. What is all that about, it's a lottery.

Forget 19 point and use spot focussing. i have a 7D and i have never used 19 point focussing. you may as well do the lottery. Whichever nerd came up with it should be fired.

19 point is for the photographer who doesn't know what he wants to focus on so lets the camera choose.
Jules

--
Julesarnia on twitter
 
As I wrote earlier. I had the same experience with a 24-105 I returned. Check the lens on a different camerahouse. Then try your 7D with a another 24-105. I used one spot fokus but had the same experience. When I MFA +5 suddenly the lens became sharp at the 50-70mm range.

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Mike the Viking
 
In my DPP "info" says that both shots were taken with ZONE AF / ONE SHOT AF and the time difference between shots is 2 sec / shot in slow cont. mode - not a very scientific "test". Times of shots = are taken at 16 04 42 and 16 04 44

In "oof" image the softness looks like motion blur ....

What are you actually trying to ask - or show ? I am not getting the idea... or perhaps i am. I have seen this "problem" so many times before on this forum.
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Kari
SLR photography started in 1968, 40D since 2007, and now 7D !
60.21 N 24.86 E
 
Very often we are seeing OOF images on this forum. Very often actually something else than focusing problem - just blurred . Images that actually do not look like off focus at all. Sometimes motion blur...

And when i view the information more closely there is much too often something strange...

If my camera starts to take bad images i definitely know what to test - and i would send also the CF card with the exif information + original images.

Of course there are real problems in real life - in this case the exif information and the story are totally different . That IS a problem.
Now - just view these images in Canons own software DPP and check INFO
--
Kari
SLR photography started in 1968, 40D since 2007, and now 7D !
60.21 N 24.86 E
 
Good photography! I suspect it was a 100-400mm, given that the focal length was 320mm? And I suspect the real key to the clarity of the shots was that he achieved a 1/2000 shutter speed along with a good depth of field at F/6.3 and 320mm and a sharp shutter trigger finger -- good reflexes! A camera with fewer auto focus points and no "zone" ability could have achieved the shot just fine. I have a friend who takes shots with similar clarity with his 40D, but he has the other things I mentioned going for his shots.
 
I don't know why DPP is reporting that both were shot with Zone AF (there has been some confusion throughout this thread regarding the EXIF data). Perhaps since I used an old version of ACDSee to crop and re-save the images, the EXIF data was mangled.

Anyway, first photo ZONE AF, second photo SPOT AF.

I am not sure about what you are getting at regarding the time difference between when the photos were taken. Also, I don't think that it is motion blur. At 1/250 55mm I would have to be shaking the camera quite a bit to achieve that much motion blur.

Here is another example that I posted earlier. It is not as dramatic so you can actually see the grass in front is in focus while the trailer is not. The second image is in focus but taken using 105mm.

ZONE AF 67mm



ZONE AF 105mm



The problem is that I seem to be getting inaccurate focus when using Zone AF (or 19-point auto) and the mid-range focal lengths of my 24-105L zoom (when subject are 25' away or further).
 
Unfortunately, I really don't have an opportunity to try different combinations of lens and bodies.

I have had the 24-105L for quite some time. I used it with my 20D without issue.

With the 7D the main problem seems to be when using Zone AF (or 19-point auto) and the mid-range focal lengths.

Originally, I did notice that even using Spot AF my focus would be off when using the mid-range focal lengths so I have my MA set to +3.

I am not sure whether it is the camera or the lens at this point. I do think that the 7D has gotten a bad rap primarily due to it bump in resolution. Lenses that looked tack sharp on a 10mp camera may not look so sharp on an 18mp camera. For instance, my 100-400L seemed great on the 20D (across its full zoom range), but when using it on the 7D it became clear that it back focuses at 100mm and slightly front focuses at 400mm. I MAed so that it focuses better at the longer range (since that is what I use more). But if I send in my other lens (and possibly the 7D), I'll probably send in the 100-400L too.
 
With the 7D the main problem seems to be when using Zone AF (or 19-point auto) and the mid-range focal lengths.
A similar problem crops up when I use the 7D with 17-55 f/2.8 IS lens. In my case, it's a case of horrible inconsistency.

I believe this has to do with a flawed single shot AF algorithm on the 7D.

I'll try AI Servo with auto AF point selection and report on how it goes.
I am not sure whether it is the camera or the lens at this point. I do think that the 7D has gotten a bad rap primarily due to it bump in resolution. Lenses that looked tack sharp on a 10mp camera may not look so sharp on an 18mp camera.
To be fair, that's because Nikon has not released a 16 MP APS-C camera yet. When that happens (and very soon actually), all the complaints associated with high pixel density DSLRs will die off. ;)
For instance, my 100-400L seemed great on the 20D (across its full zoom range), but when using it on the 7D it became clear that it back focuses at 100mm and slightly front focuses at 400mm. I MAed so that it focuses better at the longer range (since that is what I use more). But if I send in my other lens (and possibly the 7D), I'll probably send in the 100-400L too.
I think this particular problem is a good illustration of:
http://www.lensrentals.com/news/2008.12.22/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-myths
It has nothing to do with zone AF or 19 point AF.

Essentially, every lens needs to be perfectly calibrated for a particular body. So, you must either live with AF micro-adjustment (which really doesn't work well with zoom lenses) or send your entire lens collection with the camera for AF calibration. I've done that before with the old 450D and everything comes back perfect.
 
Essentially, every lens needs to be perfectly calibrated for a particular body. So, you must either live with AF micro-adjustment (which really doesn't work well with zoom lenses) or send your entire lens collection with the camera for AF calibration. I've done that before with the old 450D and everything comes back perfect.
I am leaning towards this. It is just a pain.
 
I am not sure whether it is the camera or the lens at this point. I do think that the 7D has gotten a bad rap primarily due to it bump in resolution. Lenses that looked tack sharp on a 10mp camera may not look so sharp on an 18mp camera.
I think I am going to cry. This is a huge misconception that gets passed from thread to thread and refuses to die.

A lens that looks tack sharp on a 10mp camera will show exactly the same sharpness on an 18mp camera (barring calibration differences between the cameras). If you look at photos side by side, viewed at the same size, if anything the 7D will be slightly sharper.

What confuses beginners is that the photos will look different when viewed at 100% on a computer monitor. The 18mp image has 80% more pixels, so at 100%, the image is physically 34% wider and 34% taller. When you physically enlarge any photographic image, you enlarge the blur. So the bigger image looks less sharp to these people who don't quite realize what they are doing. This is about geometry, not technology.

Of course this has no effect on the photos in real life. In real life we do not enlarge our photos more, merely because we bought a camera with more megapixels. I did not buy larger paper for my printer when I upgraded to a 7D. I did not buy a larger monitor. So the photos are exactly the same sharpness as my lower resolution camera.
For instance, my 100-400L seemed great on the 20D (across its full zoom range), but when using it on the 7D it became clear that it back focuses at 100mm and slightly front focuses at 400mm. I MAed so that it focuses better at the longer range (since that is what I use more). But if I send in my other lens (and possibly the 7D), I'll probably send in the 100-400L too.
It is easier to detect minute focus errors when you have higher resolution because you have more pixels available, and hence it is easier to enlarge the image. As mentioned before, blur is enlarged when the image size is enlarged. But if the focus inaccuracy was not noticeable at a given image size on your 20D (e.g. an 8.5"x11" print), it's not noticeable on the 7D at the same size either. This is only a problem for you at 100% on your monitor, not in real life. That being said, it is also possible that calibration differences are resulting in a situation where the focus is legitimately off on the 7D compared to the 20D, but that is not due to the resolution difference. MA or a factory adjustment can fix this.
 

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