Thom Hogan now recommending ACR

Hi Dan - can you tell me what the main advantage of using LR over bridge 5 then photoshop cs5 are?

i am quite familiar with bridge and photoshop so not clear on where lr improves the situation?
I haven't kept up with Bridge since CS3, but used to use Bridge and now use LR3. If all the images you are trying to process in any given session are all in one single directory, then you can batch process pretty much as well in Bridge/ACR as you can in LR.

The main difference I found is that LR has a full database behind it for all your images. That means you can more easily find and process images that don't exist entirely in one directory. For example, you can browse a number of directories and create a collection of images that you then work on as a single logical unit even though they come from all over the hard disk. As I recall, that was a lot harder in Bridge.

Likewise, if you want to find all the images with a particular set of characteristics (for example, all soccer images of my daughter from the last 5 years), that's quite doable in LR if you had relevant tags on the images, but not very practical in Bridge.

LR also has a Slideshow, Print and Web module which adds additional features. The Print module I use a lot. I'm not sure it allows you to actually do anything you can't do in Bridge/CS, but it's a much nicer interface to work in that I remember. I only use the Slideshow module for an occasional presentation on my computer (showing friends something). I don't use the Web module, but it can output web-site pages that you could copy to a web hosting facility.

--
John
Gallery: http://jfriend.smugmug.com
Popular: http://jfriend.smugmug.com/popular
Portfolio: http://jfriend.smugmug.com/portfolio
 
NX's Control Point Technology is worth the price of the software all by itsef, and Thom doesn't mention that functionality while giving the tip of his hat to ACR ..
A similar facility exists in ACR (and has since the CS4 versions). ACR's Adjustment Brush is very effective and, in many ways, more flexible than NX's Control Points. It is certainly no more difficult to use.
.. not even close to the same functionality .. ??
Further, the Control Point facility can be added to PS via Nik's Viveza plug in, albeit at some extra cost. But one certainly needn't eschew PS to gain this (or any other?) NX facility.
.. extra cost; like $200 ... :-)

Hey, I've been using P'shop since '94, and it still plays a significant role in my processing workflow, but if somebody builds a better mousetrap, I'm using it - right now, NX(2) is the best mousetrap on the street re. what is can do. You use your s'ware and I'll use mine and we'll both be happy ...

--
Ron Wrucke (Va Eastern Shore)
http://EasternShoreImaging.com

 
NX2 is the best conversion program and works fine for the vast majority of my editing. I believe the motive for this round of dissing the software (this happens about every 4-6 months) is to get Nikon to open up the code so the others can get a "real" conversion - none can yet...

--
pjs
RIP Kodachrome 1935-2010
 
Hi,

I'm a Certified Adobe Trainer (full disclosure), so...

If one is fully up to speed on either Lightroom or Adobe CS5's Photoshop or Adobe Bridge and can take full opportunity of the settings in Adobe Camera RAW and saved "like" settings of clusters of pictures taken during a shoot under under similar conditions, one can batch process in Bridge or LR with no hassle.

While this would put one at similar to "in-camera JPEG settings", further manipulation could be done in Photoshop or LR to get truly outstanding results.

An even better feature for those who have more than one lens is the Automatic Lens Correction feature in CS5 that takes the EXIF data and corrects the chromatic aberration that is present in each lens, but is different in each lens, and corrects it, after the user performs some simple tests and records and stores the results in a data base in the folders of the computer. That goes a long way to helping make a better image automatically. CA contributes greatly to rounding errors (a major factor in what causes good photography to go south). More information is at Adobe's site:

http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lensprofile_creator/faq.html

Unfortunately, to really become proficient in Photoshop, it takes time. I teach advanced professional users who are on the computer 40 hours a week with the program, and they are still struggling with many of the features, too. And I bust my can to keep up. ;-)

--
My best,

Mike
Mike:

Kudos to your PS training efforts and I respect all those that use Adobe prodducts (I also own PSE 7.0).

But what you have written is exactly why I migrated to NX2. I do not like working with masks and layers and software requiring extensive time for PP. I presently do everything in NX2...if it cannot be done in NX2, it doesn't get done. And no, I am not a professional photographer so don't need extensive PP. Most of my PP in NX2 involves levels & curves and sharpening with an occasional control point and use of the clone tool or cropping.

Those that think that Nikon dropped the ball on NX simply have not tried it or it does not fit their PP workflow. I also do not believe that Nikon will give up on NX, but will only improve the software - either by themselves or by third-party vendors.

PS simply requires too much time to master and stay current. I need simplified PP workflow and NX gives me that at present.

Regards...
--
http://www.dusing.zenfolio.com/
DanD
 
I've been struggling to decide whether to go with LR or NX since LR1 and NX came out. Upgraded both to v2, still struggled. Now have been using LR3 (used beta for a good while), and I no longer use NX2. Just me, but I now find things just flow better with LR3.
 
Hi,

I'm a Certified Adobe Trainer (full disclosure), so...

If one is fully up to speed on either Lightroom or Adobe CS5's Photoshop or Adobe Bridge and can take full opportunity of the settings in Adobe Camera RAW and saved "like" settings of clusters of pictures taken during a shoot under under similar conditions, one can batch process in Bridge or LR with no hassle.
I can easily batch process in NX; I process a file, save (or copy) the settings, select the files I want to batch in the NX Broswer, and paste (or apply) the settings .. I actually can pick/choose the tweeks I want to apply (e.g., don't apply any control point tweeks since they are location specific). I also save batch processes and I can apply them like P'shop Actions. I don't have a problem with batch processing in NX ...
An even better feature for those who have more than one lens is the Automatic Lens Correction feature in CS5 that takes the EXIF data and corrects the chromatic aberration that is present in each lens, but is different in each lens, and corrects it, after the user performs some simple tests and records and stores the results in a data base in the folders of the computer. >
.. NX has Camera and Lens Corrections as well .. although truth be told, whin I'm using my Tokina 12-24 i do all my distortion corrections in P'shop via PTLens ..
Unfortunately, to really become proficient in Photoshop, it takes time. I teach advanced professional users who are on the computer 40 hours a week with the program, and they are still struggling with many of the features, too. And I bust my can to keep up. ;-)
.. hey, you don't have to convince me - I've been playing with vector images since the mid 80's and got serious about bitmaps in '93 when I got a HP1200c color inkjet - the ability to 'cheaply" do color prints from scans really changed my "digital world" ... and then about five years later afordable digital cameras hit the street and nothing has been the same since ...

I just use what I believe is the best tool for the job to be done - my initial processing is done in NX but I still make extensive use of P'shop for the things is does better than NX ...

--
Ron Wrucke (Va Eastern Shore)
http://EasternShoreImaging.com

 
NX's Control Point Technology is worth the price of the software all by itsef, and Thom doesn't mention that functionality while giving the tip of his hat to ACR ..
A similar facility exists in ACR (and has since the CS4 versions). ACR's Adjustment Brush is very effective and, in many ways, more flexible than NX's Control Points. It is certainly no more difficult to use.
.. not even close to the same functionality .. ??
I have Viveza 2 and find ACR's Adjustment Brush to provide essentially the same kind of adjustment facility (exposure, brightness, saturation, contrast, clarity, vibrance, color) and it's not limited to a circular region (that's really nice).
Further, the Control Point facility can be added to PS via Nik's Viveza plug in, albeit at some extra cost. But one certainly needn't eschew PS to gain this (or any other?) NX facility.
.. extra cost; like $200 ... :-)
Well, it's half that if you qualify for academic pricing. But I'm not really all that enthused about Nik stuff in general. All I was pointing out here is that you don't need NX to gain Control Points.
Hey, I've been using P'shop since '94, and it still plays a significant role in my processing workflow, but if somebody builds a better mousetrap, I'm using it - right now, NX(2) is the best mousetrap on the street re. what is can do. You use your s'ware and I'll use mine and we'll both be happy ...
Indeed, Ron, I quite agree. But that wasn't the tenor of your opening comment regarding Thom's not mentioning Control Point Technology. He really didn't need to, because it is there in ACR in the Adjustment Brush and, yes, with comparable functionality.

--
gollywop

-----------

 
I just use what I believe is the best tool for the job to be done - my initial processing is done in NX but I still make extensive use of P'shop for the things is does better than NX ...
I think most of us are striving to use the best tool for the job. Of course, we all have slightly different needs, and preferences too.

NX met that criteria for me. But it has not moved forward with the speed I was hoping for. By comparison, CSx, LRx, and ACR have been moving along at a pretty good clip. When I take Adobe's improvements and my increasing skills and experience with those products, I gotta say that ACR has taken a lead with 6.1. It's pretty clear that I'm not alone when folks like Thom come out and say the same thing as bluntly as he did.

Looking out for the next year or two, I am exceedingly confident that Adobe will continue to move forwards. But I have serious doubts about the future of NX. No announcements, no hints, no public betas, not even a rumor of a private beta. I far from sure that there will be a NX3.

LR1 and NX1 both appeared in early 2007. LR2 was a more substantial upgrade that NX2 but both appeared in mid-2008. LR3 was another big leap and it's been shipping for a while. Not one but two public Betas helped make sure the product was done right. And still not a peep out of Nikon.

Of course, the future is always speculation, but it looks to me like Nikon is loosing the race fairly convincingly. This makes me far from happy because I'm heavily invested in Nikon hardware and software. But I do think it's a sad reality today.

The old notion that Nikon software can extract more IQ from a Nikon NEF than anyone else just doesn't hold water any longer, in my view.

Of course, I'll be very happy if they prove me wrong with a new NX3 next month ;-)
 
I've been struggling to decide whether to go with LR or NX since LR1 and NX came out. Upgraded both to v2, still struggled. Now have been using LR3 (used beta for a good while), and I no longer use NX2. Just me, but I now find things just flow better with LR3.
--Same here. LR3's a winner ;) With NX2 V2, I can't tell the difference with the older version, it's still a dog, wish I wouldn't have wasted the $$ for the upgrade...

'I am what I am and that's all I am' Popeye 1960. Favorite famous Hollywood celebrity. Don't have time for the rest.....
 
I have Viveza 2 and find ACR's Adjustment Brush to provide essentially the same kind of adjustment facility (exposure, brightness, saturation, contrast, clarity, vibrance, color) and it's not limited to a circular region (that's really nice).
.. well, I haven't use ACR's Adjustment Brush as much as I've used NX's Control Points so maybe, if I was more proficient with ACR, I could agree. Note, however, the you aren't limited to a circular region in NX either .. you can use the + - Brush to apply/erase the Control as desired; apply multiple control points and/or copy the points (e.g., D-Lighting), paste 'em in a separate edit step, and then change the tweek to something else (e.g., Curves and then hit it with a little S-curve to bring back the contrast lost by the D-Lighting application ...
... Indeed, Ron, I quite agree. But that wasn't the tenor of your opening comment regarding Thom's not mentioning Control Point Technology. He really didn't need to, because it is there in ACR in the Adjustment Brush and, yes, with comparable functionality.
I have three of Thom's e-books, and I think they are invaluable when he explains not only what camera controls exist but how to use them. Fundamentally, I'm a fan. However, I've always gotten the impression that he doesn't get down and dirty with his software ... His 'software addendums" are cursory at best. Re. my original theme pertaining to Thom's focus on "conversion" only, he says "So conversion means for me: 16-bit Smart Object with lens corrections applied, a white balance usually from reference, and some slight HSL tweaking." I don't get the impression that he uses the more comprehensive editing functions available in NX ... and as a consequense his recommendation doesn't take those type of edits into consideration. I could be wrong; it certainly wouldn't be the first time (ask my wife) .. :-) Note, however, that I sure wish Nikon would come out with a version of NX capable of using a 64-bit processor and when they do, I hope it doesn't take three bug-fix releases to get things right ... !!!

In the interim, I need to go further explore the ACR Adjustment Brush some more .. it seems like I might have not been taking advantage of its full functionality ... ???

Ron Wrucke (Va Eastern Shore)
http://EasternShoreImaging.com

 
I presently do everything in NX2...if it cannot be done in NX2, it doesn't get done.
Then you obviously never do perspective control, an edit I find invaluable. I'm also big on stitching. This photo required both:



--
Anthony Beach
 
I've uses Nikon Capture seemingly forever and used it extensively.

I absolutely can not accomplish the fine editing in NX2 that I can with quick masks, selective color, etc.

Also...the color control points in NX2 are nowhere near as finely selective as I'd like them to be either.
--
Jim Fenton
My Wildlife Images at:
http://www.pbase.com/soonipi1957
 
I absolutely can not accomplish the fine editing in NX2 that I can with quick masks, selective color, etc.

Also...the color control points in NX2 are nowhere near as finely selective as I'd like them to be either.
... I never claimed that NX replaces P'shop ... but I don't find a need to use selective color all that often. If I do need it, I know where to go ... :-)

I find that for general editing (i.e., exposure compensation, WB adjust, Curve work), NX is a great tool. For localized work - e.g., S/H, Noise removal, some Curve work (contrast maybe or perhaps some spot lightening/darkening), sharpening, vignetting, etc. the Control Points fine tuned with the + - Brush and Opacity adjustments do everything I need to do probably 95% of the time. Photoshop was my only editor for 12 years + -. It was difficult to incorporate a whole new editor into my workflow, but shooting raw necessitated a change (I used both ACR and NC for a year before adopeing NC into my processing) ... If Nikon doesn't continue to advance NX, than I'm sure I'll be back to ACR but for now I'll continue with NX since it is a very capable image processor and I still have P'shop in my back pocket ...

Ron Wrucke (Va Eastern Shore)
http://EasternShoreImaging.com

 
I see clearly what Ron means. Perhaps due to seeing things similar. My combining nx2 and PS and 0 – 2 quick tool uses in ACR (tiff only) gives me far the best results. I have done extreme tests of best CS 3 ACR v nx2 (I was used perfectly to ACR) – IQ wise (my only criterion). After which I was horrified to come back to Adobe’s enterprise. NX2 became instantly part of my camera – that's what convertor is if that built in it - jpg is not used. I am very sensitive to wb/color accuracy, rendering in shadows etc. Don’t need mass working nor do I need to spend a weekend on one shot with ‘PS possibilities’ only to forget what I saw eventually. Or what my own face looks like. Similar result on Canon. Nowhere near simple DPP. Only alternative was Phase One convertor both case. I wont be extensive on this. I have met even people to whome tweaking all possible in PS turned in more enjoyment than the original intent. It so many of us.

Although test results somehow still fresh in memory (despite many swift Adobe’s market rotations – with very slow actual movement where it counts for me) – I see they are coming closer and there are many valuable and more serious improvements (I mean profiles too – though there shouldn’t actually be any in acr.. perhaps some Adobe ones.. ). And I hear more of those improvements from people. Thank god for that.

And nx2? I love it as I love my Nikon camera. This little fellow makes Adobe lovers seeking reassurance over n again.. Yes, that giant conglomerate still a bit shy next to it in some crucial respects. And rightfully so. But it is the Nikon's doing I suspect it's fair to mention - I want to believe at least! Its cooperation with Adobe seems a bit stiff. Many landscape shooters would feel terrible to say nx2 good bye as yet.

Adobe PS? Many things are not so difficult as they sound. Whoever wants I’ll send him a brief description how to edit a simple layer in seconds, it is really not much different to Capture’s points. The fact I personally find PS more 'laboratory' and nx2 more 'photographic' is certainly too subjective n fairly far from the point.

PS offers the most practical and sufficient editing as a complex, whether you need quantum of it or just your selection of a few steps. Surprisingly, nx2 can do a lot of it too. Not that complex, precise and practical though. I am very glad I can combine it with Adobe PS.

I think the Elements is a sensible thing. But I hit some obstructions in my workflow – I’d have to save jpg twice which I wont do simply (?- faintly recalling now) if I want to stick precisely to my wf – or something similar and I think it was the last version I checked.

Tried seriously LR (+last versions of 2, betas), I disliked the interface continuously. Never liked this sw. But I want to believe its rather me and basically matter of getting used to it.

Bridge.. Good worker, no messing, results. Always liked it, a brilliant PS connection.

I use IDImager. Takes care of my everything. I can be using some 20% of its potential but for that I truly love it -5.06v. Updates come kind of weekly. The best viewer I found during extensive tests, the centre of my workflow and a phenomenal IM. It has its moments but grows just before my eyes, like nx2 I am able to forgive for its values a lot, not that it needs that(!) – just that I would be ready to do so. Thanks to Hertwig van Zwietering that makes his appearance on this forum too occasionally.

my little pence,

Hynek
--
http://www.sunwaysite.com
 
Hi Daniel D and Ron Wrucke,

There are more ways to skin a cat...

I prefer one that offers more options, perhaps a more richer pallet of opportunities, how one arrives at one's vision is a personal choice. I do think that everyone should check options and have a hard look around to keep up-to-date to make sure that their option is the one they want to keep as theirs.

Granted, my option might not be the easiest starting point considering what has to go into the noggin before the switch on the computer is turned on, but that's another conversation.

Different strokes...

If we were all the same, it would be a boring world.

I will say, even though I earn a good part of my income from Adobe that they could some stiff competition out there. While there are some good consumer applications like Picasa for amateurs, Paintshop Pro and PhotoImpact and Photoshop Elements for enthusiasts, there really isn't a player that has impacted the market for the professionals.

That said, the current crop Adobe is offering seems to be more user friendly than ever before, but then I've been using it since inception.

My best and kindest regards,

Mike
 
Mike:

Kudos to your PS training efforts and I respect all those that use Adobe prodducts (I also own PSE 7.0).

But what you have written is exactly why I migrated to NX2. I do not like working with masks and layers and software requiring extensive time for PP. I presently do everything in NX2...if it cannot be done in NX2, it doesn't get done. And no, I am not a professional photographer so don't need extensive PP. Most of my PP in NX2 involves levels & curves and sharpening with an occasional control point and use of the clone tool or cropping.

Those that think that Nikon dropped the ball on NX simply have not tried it or it does not fit their PP workflow. I also do not believe that Nikon will give up on NX, but will only improve the software - either by themselves or by third-party vendors.

PS simply requires too much time to master and stay current. I need simplified PP workflow and NX gives me that at present.

Regards...
--
http://www.dusing.zenfolio.com/
DanD
Daniel:

I agree PS is very complex. But the discussion here should compare Lightroom (or Brigde and the ARC module of PS) with Capture NX. I think Lightroom give exactly what you want and are very easy to learn and use...

Sverre
 
ACR has come a LONG way over the last year or two.

CNX2 has faded in my workflow ad I like the continous workflow in one product. (Have CS5 now)

I pretty much dont have to go anywhere else now. Other apps can make minor diffrences, but the ease of use and my existing workflow leveraging peices of Photoshop that arent in other apps, plus my actions work in this app.

Photoshop is my weapon of choice these days.

Roman
--

New Web Presence Coming Soon:
http://blog.commercialfineart.com/

Old Web Site
http://www.pbase.com/romansphotos/
 
Hi Roman,

ACR is super. I try to most of my post editing in ACR and save the setting to apply to the like lighted scenes as a starting point in either Bridge or LR, depending upon the job.

Some jobs are small tasks of a few photos, others are monsters of albums. A few photos will likely end up in the column well of RAW again going to Photoshop. The album shots will go to LR for further work, possibly . They, too could be done in Photoshop if the job requires it, many do. The more one works in the application, the more comfortable it is to work with a few hundred images.

As you point out, repetitive work through Actions can take the drudgery out of the jobs and speed up the flow.

I, personally, find NX a tad kludgy, but then I'm also willing to admit that it likely more me than it is NX. Fortunately the short cuts seem to be consistent with PS for the most part, but if I'm going to a wide-range of masks and effects to an image - something I do, the NX is an unnecessary step in between that I feel don't need, indeed, it might even waste some time.

Again, everyone is different.

My best,

Mike
 
I love the new and improved LR3, and with the built in lens correction and my color checker passport from x-rite plug-in, everything is seemless. My color has never been better.

I purchased and used the very first version of PS many many years ago. I love ps but I use LR3 for 95% of my work flow.

--
Ed Kelly
' It is what it is '

 
thanks gollywop - this answers well my question

in fact its only recently after reading thoms 300 book and a chapter on workflow that i realized bridge has a batch rename faciility - wow what a difference that makes!

if i had thought of it earlier i should have guessed. anyway a world of better photo management has opened up to me!

so i can happily stick to bridge and cs5.
Hi Dan - can you tell me what the main advantage of using LR over bridge 5 then photoshop cs5 are?
Hi brettchris,

As Dan points out, LR has better organizational and search facilities. Bridge is somewhat more limited when it comes to dealing efficiently with truly massive numbers of image files. For those of us with more modest numbers, however, Bridge's facilities are just fine; I really wouldn't want or need more.

Otherwise, there is nothing LR can do that PS can't, but there is plenty PS can do that cannot be done in LR -- but a great deal of that is of more use to "painters" and design sorts and is not really needed by photographers. LR was designed to provide a single package focused on photographic needs.
gollywop
 

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