Appropriate behavior for uncle Joe at a wedding

Im not a professional photographer.
I do not have professional equipment.

I have a job that I love, am doing fine financially, and have no desire to become a professional photographer.

I have enough respect for how difficult it is to make it as a professional that I would never bother trying to "extend my income" or whatever nonsense people use to justify their switch to a "professional" model. (Quotes are used to indicate how many people advetise on craigslist, etc).

Anyway, with that said, I love photography. I also love digital editing.

So heres my question to the pros out there: What is my proper role?

When I get invited to weddings I usually bring along my dslr. I have a Sony a200 (smallish for an slr) and usually use my 50mm lens (which is also very small). No external flash, no tripod, etc. Sometimes I'll also use my kit lens. Don't ever use larger lenses.

While at the wedding, I do snap a lot of pictures. I probably take 100-200 shots. If its a long wedding and its outdoors, sometimes more. I almost never use flash (which is why I prefer my 50mm lens), because I dont want to interupt the lighting of the pros or the wedding proceedings.

I never participate in formal portraits or shots. I take pictures at the ceremony from my seat (dont get up) and from the reception (I do wander, but only if other guests are).

I try not to spend more than 20% of my time at the reception taking pictures, however. Im there as a guest, and theres usually free alcohol and food, so I dont plan on missing out on that

I dont like to buy $100 gifts from registries that are meaningless. I usually give a small photo album with pictures that I print off (all 4x6s). Ive recently been experimenting with putting them to music (slideshow style), but its a lot of work that I think I"ll avoid in the future.

Am I crossing the line? I know my shots aren't as good as the professional, and Im not trying to replace that. But sometimes I worry that thats what it appears Im doing.

Ive had friends approach me to shoo ttheir weddings (for free or some ridiculous nominal fee). Ive always said 100% no. I'll take pictures as a guest, but only if you hire a pro. I dont want that stress, and I know that not only do I not have the equipment, I dont have the time, desire, or skill to accomplish that task. One friend even told me she wouldn't hire anyone if I didn't help. That they'd have no pictures. I still said no. I won't be going to that wedding at all.

Even so, whats appropriate for "uncle joe" with a digital SLR?
How can I make sure that Im not bothering the pro?
Is it ok for me to snap away as long as it doesnt obther anyone?

Is it appropriate to give a photo album as a gift, knowing theyll get one from their pro?

You are perfectly entited to take photos as a guest and give them as a gift after the wedding. 75mm equiv. focal length is a decent choice.

Literally following the B&G around is the problem, keen photographers getting in the background of shots that can't be repeated can be annoying, I compose them out by camera angle or occlusion if possible.

I did have one guest with a 5D and 50L print an image from outside church and bring it to the reception. I didn't mind other than it was an ordinary shot with the colour temp about 500K too cool and I didn't want anyone to think it was one of mine.

Andrew

If only all Uncle Joe's were like you. If a pro has a problem with someone taking photos with an slr like you do then they are not confident in their own ability to produce better photos. I find alot more women turn up with slr's lately and they are often worse at getting in the way or thinking they no better and start suggesting things to do. I did have a bloke turn up with a d3x (a lot more expensive than my cameras) who clearly had no Idea how to use it and spent most of the time looking puzzled at the screen!!
--
http://www.pbase.com/kphphotography
http://www.surreyphoto.co.uk

Don't distract.

100-200 photos is a LOT. Is it a distraction taking all of those? It's not just a matter of being in the way of the pro. It's also about how you interact with other guests. For example, if another guest is running around the tables at the reception taking pictures of everyone, then a large percentage of people are going to think that they're doing so in at least some official capacity. That makes it harder for the pro when he wants the shot. "We've already had our picture taken" is not an uncommon remark when uncle joes are running around.

Shooting over the shoulder can also be a distraction. When people have multiple cameras in front of them, it's not always easy to know which one to give their attention to. Some years ago, I didn't get a handle on this sort of thing and had a lot of shots where subjects were looking at any one of the myriad of other cameras in there face. Since then, I've restricted guests from taking photos during my portrait session, and it's gone much smoother. In fact, my portrait sessions are now even "closed" to those not waiting to be in them. Once their own shot is taken, they are to quietly leave the area. No more uncle joes hanging around making the portrait session last twice as long!

A booklet or DVD for the couple is fine, but at some point, aren't there ENOUGH pictures from a wedding, between what the pro provides and what immediate family and wedding party are likely to do? Too much is, well, just too much, especially in the digital age where there may be DOZENS of cameras at a wedding, all of them with virutally unlimited shooting capacity. How much or how often is the couple really likely to get out your photo book? At best, they may just pull out a couple of their favorites. They are not likely to, however, go around showing your booklet or DVD to lots of other people. We often provide smaller softcover versions of final albums to couples that are appropriate for carrying around and showing off to friends, family and co-workers. Indeed, many of our referrals come from brides-to-be having seen their friend's album at work, school, etc. I can't easily envision a couple carrying around a second, third or fourth album around with them in this manner. In the past, when a pro shot only a hundred or so images at a wedding, then uncle joe's little book of candids may have fulfilled a small need. Today, however, with the pro catching as many as a thousand shots or more, it'd be a rare wedding for uncle joe to get much of interest that the pro misses.

Photography today seems to have never been more popular, in large part perhaps due to digital technology. What I think is happening, though, is that it addresses a human desire to ACCUMULATE, and satiates this hunger with unprecedented IMMEDIACY. This is probably the case with many vacation photos, particularly somewhere like Disney World, where there are literally millions of images captured every single day by tens of thousands of people all capturing many of the shots captured by tens of thousands the day before that, and the day before that. Yes, some photos are very valuable, and they enjoy even more "exposure" today with social media outlets like facebook. But when I see uncle joes and aunt helens snapping away furiously at a wedding or a theme park, I wonder how many of those photos will actually be viewed and enjoyed later. Aside from the children with Mickey or the bride with her aunts and mother, probably not very many.

gtexan said:

Even so, whats appropriate for "uncle joe" with a digital SLR?
How can I make sure that Im not bothering the pro?
Is it ok for me to snap away as long as it doesnt obther anyone?

Is it appropriate to give a photo album as a gift, knowing theyll get one from their pro?

Click to expand...

--
Michael Thomas Mitchell

I also do not do family or friends events. Want to know why? Because they expect it for free and they are the worst ones to criticize. I always get criticized for doing these things so now, I never take my camera to weddings I am invited to.

My uncle is a doctor and I asked him would he do a $100,000 heart surgery for free? I do not ask him medical questions when he is not working nor do I ask him for free prescriptions so why do these relatives do it to us photographers?

Why are you asking the photographers what you should be doing at a wedding? It's not their day, it's the bride and groom's day. Your role is to enjoy the day and do what you can to ensure that the couple does as well. That's it. The event photographer is paid to do a job: take pretty pictures of the couple and guests. He doesn't get to say you can't take photos, can't deliver some prints to the couple, or put your shots on the web. A wedding is an event for family and friends, not the photographer's private venue where he can tell everyone else what to do. Is it really that difficult to work out? If you're being an annoying shutterbug, your wife should grab you by the collar, sit you down and put a plate in front of you.

Jeez, this forum gets wackier by the day.
--



http://www.pbase.com/jfinite

I have fun at weddings taking pictures.

If doing this annoys the pro, then thats going to negatively impact the job they're doing.

The bride and groom dont have time at their wedding to be policing their guests. At the same time, they paid the pro a premium to provide a service. If what Im doing is annoying the pro and interupting their job, I dont want to do it. I dont want to ask every bride and groom to lay out my boundaries.

There are a lot of pros on here who are used to annoying "Uncle joes" getting in their way. I thought it might be informative for me to find out if my behavior fits into this category or if its acceptable.

Like I said, my goal is to have fun and support a marriage in the process. I dont want the bride and groom having to come over and say "the pro is mad, please stop"

I'd never atke pictures of people I didn't know or table guests. That seems pretty strange.

But that doesn't stop me from taking 4-5 quick pics during a dance or during a kiss in the ceremony, etc.

Those add up. 200 isn't hard to reach, really

While I agree with Michael and his points, I also feel that guests find pleasure in taking snapshots. I realized long ago that it would actually hurt me if I started staring down guest photographers. It created more stress! Sure there are times that I will tell the bride or groom about a guest's behavior, but I have also warned the b&g that guests interfering will also delay the shots that they hire me to take of them. I will also show the couple shots that were ruined by guests jumping in front of me. I have also noted that some savvy bride's are sending invitations with "please leave your cameras at home" and enjoy the wedding.

I am roughly in the same situation.

Normally as a guest with a big camera, I will do the following:

1. take no pictures during the ceremony, unless there is something in the audience that catches my eye, which does not attract the hired photog. Even then, I would like take less than 5 total. (For example, I went to an outdoor wedding yesterday, and the beach behind the ceremony was not closed to the public, so a couple of children were playing in the sand and water. I took a couple of pictures, because I liked the composition of the hoopah with the children behind it.

2. always look over my shoulder to make sure I am not IN FRONT of the pro. Obviously I couldn't be bothered to be behind the pro either. I have no reason to duplicate shots.
3. do not take photos of people I do not know
4. limit myself to

Short of not photographing the event... is there anything else I can do?

Just out of curiosity, why do you not take pictures during the ceremony?

If a ceremony is indoors, obviously Im not going to take pictures.
If a ceremony is a very religious affair, Im not going to take pictures.
During the sermon, prayers, etc, Im not going to take pictures.

But if its outside and a more laid back affair, whats the harm?

Shutter clicks aren't going to be heard over the ambient noise of an outside wedding.
As long as you're still enjoying the moment and not moving out of your seat?

I just think it's a very important moment in the couple's lives, and I am not doing my job as a guest if I don't share it with them... and if all I am doing is taking pictures, I am not enjoying the moment with them.

Plus, I wouldn't want to hear incessant clicking even from the pro when I am up there.

If a guest only stays at a wedding for 200 minutes, that's 1 shot for every single minute of their wedding day experience. (This estimate presumes 30 minutes arrival prior to the ceremony, 30 minutes for the ceremony, and then about 2 hours and ten minutes for the reception. Rather typical, give or take, for a guest.)

Obviously, people can argue about what's too much and so forth and never come to a consensus. But 1 photo every single minute begs the question: what else does one have the chance to do if the camera is in their face literally every moment of the wedding day? This is not the conduct of someone who has been invited to witness and take part in the beginning of a new marriage. Rather, it's someone who is simply obsessed with taking pictures.

gtexan said:

I'd never atke pictures of people I didn't know or table guests. That seems pretty strange.

But that doesn't stop me from taking 4-5 quick pics during a dance or during a kiss in the ceremony, etc.

Those add up. 200 isn't hard to reach, really

Click to expand...

--
Michael Thomas Mitchell

Sure, maybe if you're taking 1 shot a minute, that would be ridiculous.

But digital SLRs are popular because they can take quick pictures in succession. If yo ushoot in 5-10 shot bursts at the "critical" moments, 200 isn't hard to reach. Its only 20 bursts of 10

When you include changing settings, etc, it gets there pretty quickly.

Im not saying 200 keepers, just 200 total shots from arrival to leaving

Agreed.

The (insanely timid) OP must be a regular reader of the Pro forum and has seen all the threads from holier than thou "pros" that guests are the devil incarnate and should be executed on the spot if they possess a camera. The OP must find it very difficult to take pictures all bent over with no backbone to hold them upright.

jfinite said:

Why are you asking the photographers what you should be doing at a wedding? It's not their day, it's the bride and groom's day. Your role is to enjoy the day and do what you can to ensure that the couple does as well. That's it. The event photographer is paid to do a job: take pretty pictures of the couple and guests. He doesn't get to say you can't take photos, can't deliver some prints to the couple, or put your shots on the web. A wedding is an event for family and friends, not the photographer's private venue where he can tell everyone else what to do. Is it really that difficult to work out? If you're being an annoying shutterbug, your wife should grab you by the collar, sit you down and put a plate in front of you.

Jeez, this forum gets wackier by the day.
--



http://www.pbase.com/jfinite

Click to expand...

WTF indeed.

I actually find the sycophants more disturbing then the pure trolls. The trolls can sometimes trigger a conversation that goes off into a useful direction.

Your role is simply to enjoy the wedding, normal courtesy to the B&G expected which includes not hindering their hired people on the day.

Dont yell "look here" when the pro is taking photos of a group

dont appoint yourself backup photographer and jump out in front of him during the first kiss etc (it happens)
dont get in the way or distract the people being photographed if you can help it

otherwise do what you want, have fun, enjoy yourself, get some nice pics

to avoid annoying the B&G, dont pose your own groups, dont go outside the church and wait for her arrival, dont go berzerk taking lots of photos with flash during the ceremony, dont follow them around during the couple session

People like you who are courteous and thoughtful enough to even think of asking are rarely a problem to the pro photographer.

Give it up Dingo. (nt)

Hi,

I'm a pro wedding photographer. I could not really care less what you do with your camera or with the prints after the wedding. Yes - I might be annoyed if when I pose a group you jump in front of me to take the photo but I'll probably still only joke with you.

The one thing to remember is that I'm getting paid for what I do. You're a guest and if taking photos is what you like doing then please - be my guest. I'm getting paid (repeat ad nauseam)
--
Blaise
Wedding Photographer Nice, France
http://en.photographe-mariages.net

gtexan said:

So heres my question to the pros out there: What is my proper role?

When I get invited to weddings I usually bring along my dslr.

Click to expand...

--

Leave your camera at home. Period.

It only takes a couple of GWC like you to ruin a perfect day.

Enjoy the wedding, respect the groom and bride and their guests. They already have made their choice as to whom should photograph the wedding and you were NOT included.

---
Villebon