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How To Transcode .MOV files - Updated & Improved

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englishman

englishman

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Lots of people have seen my tutorial on transcoding .mov files to an intermediate format for editing in Sony Vegas. My original method used the Avid DNxHD codec. My new method utilizes the recently released Matrox codecs and has a few advantages over the original method:
  • there's an option for videos recorded at 29.97 (which the DNxHD codec does not have)
  • the method produces AVI files which is what Sony Vegas wants and needs to perform its best without any timeline issues
  • the workflow is much less convoluted
  • it's faster than DNxHD.
There is one disadvantage . . . this method does NOT work for Mac users. The DNxHD method does.

Some of you may still wonder WHY anyone would transcode to an intermediate format when certain programs seem to edit these files natively. I wondered this too until I talked to a friend of mine who is a professional videographer.

There are codecs made for capturing. These are terrible for playback - they encode fast but decode slow (e.g., AVCHD, H.264).

Then there are editing codecs. These create massive files but don't lose much information during the editing process (DNxHD, ProRes, Cineform, etc.).

Last there are delivery codecs. These create small, high-quality files for end-user playback.

If you want the best quality, you should do what the pros do - transcode to an appropriate format for each step.

Anyway, that's the reasoning. Click the following link to see my new youtube video explaining the method. I think most will find it a fairly easy process to follow. I hope it helps someone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnL9k_bH2vs
 
I don't use Premier but as far as I know it doesn't have its own high quality codec. Final Cut does - it's ProRes, and Avid does - it's DNxHD and those NLEs play back .mov files very smoothly.

What happens is that all codecs stored in a .mov container must be accessed through Quicktime. So, Vegas (& I think Premiere & most other NLEs) can't decode the video themselves. They "call" Quicktime to decode and play back the video. It's a very slow process - it means you can't achieve realtime playback of video files encoded into a .MOV container.

But if it's working for you, keep doing it. That's all I do. I've just that as I've gone along, I've been asking lots of questions. I have Sony Vegas and I have troubles editing the .mov files. So I'm looking for ways (without spending $$) to edit these files and get realtime playback in the Vegas timeline (and avoid crashes, etc.).

What I'm telling you is what I've been told by my friend, who does this for a living. I'm just a hobbyist. He's too busy to share this information so I'm trying to make the info readily available.

Also, this information is great for those of us who want to achieve excellent quality on a budget. You can get Sony Vegas Platinum for under $100 and that's all you need. Everything else is free. It's a cheap solution that produces phenomenal results - that's hard to beat.
 
Great info, just what I was looking for. Thanks for taking the time to post and teach others!!!

Henry
 
Great howto video, thank you. Even though it doesn't seem to work for me after following your video to the letter. I get the same encoder error that can be seen in your video and the video does convert, however WMP nor VLC can't even open the resulting files.
 
Shopro said:
Great howto video, thank you. Even though it doesn't seem to work for me after following your video to the letter. I get the same encoder error that can be seen in your video and the video does convert, however WMP nor VLC can't even open the resulting files.
Click to expand...
Hi there . . . did you install ffdshow?

I also noticed the error message . . . originally, when I didn't have ffdshow, I'd get that error message and the file would supposedly convert, but when I looked at the completed file, there was nothing to it (like 50KB or something). Once I installed ffdshow there was no problem (even though the program - Prism - seems to register a temporary error).

Also, you can try checking or unchecking the box under "options" that says "Use FFMPEG first." I actually find that if I uncheck that box that I don't get that error at all (I just tried it).
 
I've been using the free version of VideoPad.

It read T2i movie files directly with no conversions.

The latest version adds speed change in both directions.

I imagine it doesn't have all of the features of the more sophistigated programs but it does evrything that I want and it's easy to use.
 
Hi englishman, do you know if Sony Vegas have plugin for magic bullet looks? I'm thinking of switching over from Adobe Premiere since so many people are using it. I can't use Final Cut since I'm on PC. I just can't seem to compress a video into smaller size without losing quality. If I save the video with Premiere uncompressed, many compressors would not open it, or would come out with problems.
 
Myer said:
It read T2i movie files directly with no conversions.
Click to expand...
It's true that editing directly without conversion will produce the best quality - right up to the point at which you do something to the timeline that changes color, saturation or contrast . . . then you'll end up with a lower quality than what you could have had had you transcoded to an appropriate intermediate codec (some programs do this automatically, as I said before - Avid and Final Cut, for example).

Capture codecs are for just that - capturing (e.g., h.264, AVCHD). They encode fast but decode slow - making them crummy for playback.

But if what you're doing works for you and produces results you're happy with, then great. If you ever watch t2i videos on vimeo, though, and wonder, "How did they get those to look THAT good?" that's what this thread is about.
 
Yes, you can use Magic Bullet Looks with Sony Vegas. Check out Vimeo and do a search for "Vegas Magic Bullet Looks" and then sort by "newest" and you'll see lots of videos color graded with Magic Bullet Looks in Vegas.
 
englishman said:
englishman said:
Great howto video, thank you. Even though it doesn't seem to work for me after following your video to the letter. I get the same encoder error that can be seen in your video and the video does convert, however WMP nor VLC can't even open the resulting files.
Click to expand...
Hi there . . . did you install ffdshow?

I also noticed the error message . . . originally, when I didn't have ffdshow, I'd get that error message and the file would supposedly convert, but when I looked at the completed file, there was nothing to it (like 50KB or something). Once I installed ffdshow there was no problem (even though the program - Prism - seems to register a temporary error).

Also, you can try checking or unchecking the box under "options" that says "Use FFMPEG first." I actually find that if I uncheck that box that I don't get that error at all (I just tried it).
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time with this. However I too am getting an error message and a 30KB file with nothing in it. I have double checked, reinstalled, and followed the video exactly. Any ideas?

Thanks again~

Adam
 
FlyACL said:
Thanks for taking the time with this. However I too am getting an error message and a 30KB file with nothing in it. I have double checked, reinstalled, and followed the video exactly. Any ideas?
Click to expand...
No . . . I don't have any ideas other than what I've suggested. It didn't work for me for a while . . . until I installed ffdshow. Then everything went fine.

Be sure your codecs are installed (ffdshow). Be sure you've tried checking / unchecking the ffmpeg tickbox under options. Other than that I'm not sure what to say.

Obviously you can try Avid DNxHD, which works well on Mac and PC but which doesn't have a 30fps option. And then there's Cineform, which is about $100 and which works perfectly every time and produces AVI files (at least the trial has worked flawlessly for me). And it's very simple to use.

If none of those ideas are appealing then there's always Final Cut (Mac users) which is very expensive or Avid (prohibitively expensive).

There are other less expensive options that will give you lesser quality files. You can read about those options in lots of places on this forum.
 
I tried all that, but no luck.The problem is in the Matrox codec. I can use any of the other ones, but if I do a Matrox one I get the error and the 30KB empty file.

Oh well, again I appreciate the info and hope others have better luck then I did.

Take care~

Adam
 
englishman said:
englishman said:
It read T2i movie files directly with no conversions.
Click to expand...
It's true that editing directly without conversion will produce the best quality - right up to the point at which you do something to the timeline that changes color, saturation or contrast . . . then you'll end up with a lower quality than what you could have had had you transcoded to an appropriate intermediate codec (some programs do this automatically, as I said before - Avid and Final Cut, for example).
Click to expand...
I have not seen this using Pinnacle 14 HD - I routinely change color, WB, curves and contrast and see no loss of quality - and it does this on the fly with no waiting. I still can't find any other solution that come close to the ease and speed of this program.

Is it possible that Pinnacle transcodes in the background without my knowing it?
--
Sam K., NYC
 
skanter said:
Is it possible that Pinnacle transcodes in the background without my knowing it?
Click to expand...
I've thought this possible . . . Pinnacle is, after all, an Avid product.

I just contacted Avid on this. Here's what the experts there have to say on the topic:

Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
You have been connected to AGENT.
Eric: Hi Fleto
AGENT: Hi Eric, my name is Fleto, how may I help you?
Eric: I have a very quick question

Eric: Pinnacle seems to edit .mov files from my Canon t2i (DSLR) without any problems
Eric: I want to know if there is transcoding going on in the background
Eric: before I'm editing
Eric: perhaps with the DNxHD codec??
Eric: I ask because most NLEs cannot do this (e.g., Sony Vegas)
AGENT: My apology what is happening is called rendering.

AGENT: While working on a file or .mov files there is a process called rendering.
Eric: you're missing my point
Eric: rendering is when you save your final video
Eric: I'm not talking about that
Eric: I'm trying to ask you the following:

Eric: Most NLEs like Sony Vegas do not edit .MOV files from a Canon DSLR well at all.
Eric: But Pinnacle seems to do it fine.
AGENT: Rendering also take place when editing a video on the time line.

Eric: Most programs require that you transcode to an intermediate format for editing (e.g., Cineform, DNxHD, Matrox) but Pinnacle works well
Eric: without transcoding to an intermediate format

Eric: I'm trying to figure out if Pinnacle converts the file in the background to something it can handle well
Eric: and if so, what codec does it use?

AGENT: But if you can please elaborate where does this " transcoding going on in the background" where do you encounter this?.

Eric: for instance, Final Cut does this and it uses ProRes (an intermediate codec)
Eric: Avid also does this using DNxHD
Eric: I don't encounter it anywhere
Eric: you are not understanding my question at al
AGENT: Mostly for mpeg 4, h.264. 2 ch encoding and decoding.
Eric: Is there someone else there I could talk to perhaps?
AGENT: Can ask did you register the product?.
Eric: No

Eric: Can I speak with someone else please? Someone that might understand what I'm asking?
AGENT: Can I ask are you using a trial version?.
Eric: No!
Eric: I'm not asking a question because I'm having problems.
Eric: I'm trying to figure something out

Eric: It's a simple question - please let me speak with someone else - is this possible?

AGENT: The under thing that Transcoding happens on Studio is while on make movie when you are trying to render the project let say DVD it creates a disc image (video_ts) folder on the computer drive then on a disc or DVD.
Eric: that does not answer my question
AGENT: Can you please provide me the serial number for the product?.

Eric: Let me try to re-phrase it. Does Pinnacle convert the file in the background or does it make a call to Quicktime to decode the video? And if you don't know the answer can you please direct this question to someone else?
Eric: no - the serial # is irrelevant
Eric: I'm trying to figure out how Pinnacle works
Eric: and I need someone that knows
Eric: can you please direct this to someone else?
Eric: Please?
Eric: Pretty please?

AGENT: Look Studio can capture the video from a source like vcr or camcorder and it has formats for capture avi, or mpeg , When you try to load this file on the time line there is no transcoding but you can set the project under setup > project preferences > project format , then if you go to make movie there are several options to render the project as a file or dvd.
Eric: Is there anyone else on the job today, Fleto?
Eric: May I speak with them?
Eric: you are not understanding my question
AGENT: Ok let please have the serial number for the product ok.
Eric: no
AGENT: Can I ask why can't you provide me the serial number?.
Eric: I don't have the product
Eric: I want to know how it works before I buy it

Eric: and I'm asking a question about it on here because there's not a number for me to call
Eric: for tech support
Eric: because you have to own the product to call tech support
Eric: but you haven't answered my question yet

Eric: so I'm hoping you'll transfer me to someone who can answer it quickly because I have to meet someone at the gym in about 33 minutes

AGENT: My apology I already provide you all the information that Studio does while on Studio on edit there is also transcoding is happenning whne you load the video on the time line.
Eric: Can I speak with someone else?
Eric: Yes or no?

AGENT: I already provide you all the process that is happening on Studio during on import, edit and make movie including the codecs that it used to support.
Eric: Can I speak with someone else?

So, Skanter, there you have it. There is transcoding going on and there is not transcoding going on. I hope you have it straight now. And I guess the answer to my question is NO!
 
Eric, I appreciate your going through the ordeal with "tech support". You obviously need a higher level rep. I usually hang up and try again, maybe get lucky the next time...
englishman said:
englishman said:
Is it possible that Pinnacle transcodes in the background without my knowing it?
Click to expand...
I've thought this possible . . . Pinnacle is, after all, an Avid product.

I just contacted Avid on this. Here's what the experts there have to say on the topic:

Please wait while we find an agent to assist you...
You have been connected to AGENT.
Eric: Hi Fleto
AGENT: Hi Eric, my name is Fleto, how may I help you?
Eric: I have a very quick question

Eric: Pinnacle seems to edit .mov files from my Canon t2i (DSLR) without any problems
Eric: I want to know if there is transcoding going on in the background
Eric: before I'm editing
Eric: perhaps with the DNxHD codec??
Eric: I ask because most NLEs cannot do this (e.g., Sony Vegas)
AGENT: My apology what is happening is called rendering.

AGENT: While working on a file or .mov files there is a process called rendering.
Eric: you're missing my point
Eric: rendering is when you save your final video
Eric: I'm not talking about that
Eric: I'm trying to ask you the following:

Eric: Most NLEs like Sony Vegas do not edit .MOV files from a Canon DSLR well at all.
Eric: But Pinnacle seems to do it fine.
AGENT: Rendering also take place when editing a video on the time line.

Eric: Most programs require that you transcode to an intermediate format for editing (e.g., Cineform, DNxHD, Matrox) but Pinnacle works well
Eric: without transcoding to an intermediate format

Eric: I'm trying to figure out if Pinnacle converts the file in the background to something it can handle well
Eric: and if so, what codec does it use?

AGENT: But if you can please elaborate where does this " transcoding going on in the background" where do you encounter this?.

Eric: for instance, Final Cut does this and it uses ProRes (an intermediate codec)
Eric: Avid also does this using DNxHD
Eric: I don't encounter it anywhere
Eric: you are not understanding my question at al
AGENT: Mostly for mpeg 4, h.264. 2 ch encoding and decoding.
Eric: Is there someone else there I could talk to perhaps?
AGENT: Can ask did you register the product?.
Eric: No

Eric: Can I speak with someone else please? Someone that might understand what I'm asking?
AGENT: Can I ask are you using a trial version?.
Eric: No!
Eric: I'm not asking a question because I'm having problems.
Eric: I'm trying to figure something out

Eric: It's a simple question - please let me speak with someone else - is this possible?

AGENT: The under thing that Transcoding happens on Studio is while on make movie when you are trying to render the project let say DVD it creates a disc image (video_ts) folder on the computer drive then on a disc or DVD.
Eric: that does not answer my question
AGENT: Can you please provide me the serial number for the product?.

Eric: Let me try to re-phrase it. Does Pinnacle convert the file in the background or does it make a call to Quicktime to decode the video? And if you don't know the answer can you please direct this question to someone else?
Eric: no - the serial # is irrelevant
Eric: I'm trying to figure out how Pinnacle works
Eric: and I need someone that knows
Eric: can you please direct this to someone else?
Eric: Please?
Eric: Pretty please?

AGENT: Look Studio can capture the video from a source like vcr or camcorder and it has formats for capture avi, or mpeg , When you try to load this file on the time line there is no transcoding but you can set the project under setup > project preferences > project format , then if you go to make movie there are several options to render the project as a file or dvd.
Eric: Is there anyone else on the job today, Fleto?
Eric: May I speak with them?
Eric: you are not understanding my question
AGENT: Ok let please have the serial number for the product ok.
Eric: no
AGENT: Can I ask why can't you provide me the serial number?.
Eric: I don't have the product
Eric: I want to know how it works before I buy it

Eric: and I'm asking a question about it on here because there's not a number for me to call
Eric: for tech support
Eric: because you have to own the product to call tech support
Eric: but you haven't answered my question yet

Eric: so I'm hoping you'll transfer me to someone who can answer it quickly because I have to meet someone at the gym in about 33 minutes

AGENT: My apology I already provide you all the information that Studio does while on Studio on edit there is also transcoding is happenning whne you load the video on the time line.
Eric: Can I speak with someone else?
Eric: Yes or no?

AGENT: I already provide you all the process that is happening on Studio during on import, edit and make movie including the codecs that it used to support.
Eric: Can I speak with someone else?

So, Skanter, there you have it. There is transcoding going on and there is not transcoding going on. I hope you have it straight now. And I guess the answer to my question is NO!
Click to expand...
--
Sam K., NYC
 
I had the same error occur when I tried it. I solved it by clicking on "Video Options..." in the main Prism window. In the window that opened up, I placed a check mark in 'Resize', then typed in 1920 for Width and 1080 for Height (that was my in-camera size). 'Constraint Proportions' I left at 16:9.

After that I clicked 'OK'. Then, back in the Prism main window, I clicked 'Convert' and I am happy to say that the conversion to .AVI format for use in Vegas was successful.
 
hi eric..

i was just reading around in spare time, and maybe this is a little OT, but to me it looks like you have been chatting with an AI bot..

or a RS human (real stupid human) lol

--
tommaso ferrarese

E O S 5 5 0 D | 7 0 - 2 0 0 F 4 L U S M | 5 0 F 1 . 8 M K I I | 1 8 - 5 5 F 3 . 5 / 5 . 6
L E I C A D - L U X 4
 
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