sbjct
Member
I only want to Puntualize that the two jpgs are not out of camera, they have the same my personal LR3 preset applied, little sharpening and contrast, so nothing change.. But i wrote default camera jpg..
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Bye Bye S90!
- Thread starter sbjct
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FrankieJ
Senior Member
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Don't forget to have fun.
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IchiroCameraGuy
Leading Member
I think you have at one time or a few times put pressure on the side of your lens (most common) or caused problems in another way, or maybe just very unlucky from the factory twice?? it would help if you actual put up un-touched files though.
A normal, good copy has higher sharpness and contrast than LX3 lens across the frame and definitely any other Panasonic which use cheaper lens elements.
Even as you see rough/hazy spots because of your decentering you can still see the behavior of the cleaner sensor and processor in the S90 by the first comparison photos rendering the bushes as actual bushes and the Panasonic makes them plastic pieces. Sensor and processor for the LX3 will be behave similar to the S90 but it is still not as good and the lens is a tad softer.
A normal, good copy has higher sharpness and contrast than LX3 lens across the frame and definitely any other Panasonic which use cheaper lens elements.
Even as you see rough/hazy spots because of your decentering you can still see the behavior of the cleaner sensor and processor in the S90 by the first comparison photos rendering the bushes as actual bushes and the Panasonic makes them plastic pieces. Sensor and processor for the LX3 will be behave similar to the S90 but it is still not as good and the lens is a tad softer.
sbjct
Member
Thank you ichiro,
I usually pay attantion to cameras, and I never pressed the lens, look at this and tell me what you think:
I usually pay attantion to cameras, and I never pressed the lens, look at this and tell me what you think:
sbjct
Member
but permit me to disagree here...
probably you had a bad copy of the lx3... never seen something similar to this, from s90 in any image gallery... Really different animal in RAW, my 450d + 20 1.8 wide open was not near as sharp as this little leica lens.. and the only lens cost more than the entire lx3, for me, this is true DSLR quality in a semi-compact.
sbjct
Member
Sorry, 450d + 28 1.8..
IchiroCameraGuy
Leading Member
The crops don't match the photos correctly
Do you have any full size samples that are not horribly overexposed and a little smaller aperture?
Do you have any full size samples that are not horribly overexposed and a little smaller aperture?
sbjct
Member
Yes, sorry for the example, but that is what the camera do on tripod in difficult situation..
Before you analize the next sample I tell you what i understand as a guy that speak only about the cameras that have bought, used, loved or hated:
I saw many many people say that s90 is a jpg only camera (before the release of LR3) couse they were not able to do better than in camera jpg from raw, and that was the same reason why I sold my first example. Look at the next picture, if it is a bad lens on mine, why the jpgs are not that "center only" good picture? They do something in jpg conversion to help the "bad lens" to appear good! If you use raw, colour fringing, lack of contrast, distorsion (even after Lr auto correct it) etc came out. And if you want to correct everything as they do in jpg only to take out a 10/15% more sharpness I think is a total waste of time..
than:
Every camera have something wrong, but if every reviewer tell us "this is the best camera ever made, with the brightest lens ever, in the smallest possible package etc" a lot of people will buy it, and than will spend the money to make it better (or acceptable with the grip) till the release on the new s9xx. Than they probably will sold something they have never really liked and will buy the new toy. And restart.
I still hope you tell me my camera is a bad copy I will have the iq to hope at.. Till than I will think to s90 as a mediocre camera that illude me to take better picture tanks to my ability to tweak its settings.
LR3 default raw conversion exported 100% quality
OOC jpg
And lx3 another day..
Before you analize the next sample I tell you what i understand as a guy that speak only about the cameras that have bought, used, loved or hated:
I saw many many people say that s90 is a jpg only camera (before the release of LR3) couse they were not able to do better than in camera jpg from raw, and that was the same reason why I sold my first example. Look at the next picture, if it is a bad lens on mine, why the jpgs are not that "center only" good picture? They do something in jpg conversion to help the "bad lens" to appear good! If you use raw, colour fringing, lack of contrast, distorsion (even after Lr auto correct it) etc came out. And if you want to correct everything as they do in jpg only to take out a 10/15% more sharpness I think is a total waste of time..
than:
- wide open the lens is not good (50% people buy for this feature and low light so why that poor end-zoom aperture)
- stopped down over 5.6 is even worse
- I can't set the higher iso I think is acceptable and forget it(if i could i will set 400)
- jpg are not sharp as I would like (LR3 can do better)
- raw are too difficult to tweak (if possible, and the other 50% of customer are here for that)
- look at the other post about the custom grip, there are people that say "it had the worst ergonimics of any compact I've ever used, before the upgrade"
Every camera have something wrong, but if every reviewer tell us "this is the best camera ever made, with the brightest lens ever, in the smallest possible package etc" a lot of people will buy it, and than will spend the money to make it better (or acceptable with the grip) till the release on the new s9xx. Than they probably will sold something they have never really liked and will buy the new toy. And restart.
I still hope you tell me my camera is a bad copy
I will have the iq to hope at.. Till than I will think to s90 as a mediocre camera that illude me to take better picture tanks to my ability to tweak its settings.LR3 default raw conversion exported 100% quality
OOC jpg
And lx3 another day..
IchiroCameraGuy
Leading Member
I'm going to download all the samples and look them over as I some time over the next hour and tell you what I think. Maybe have you send me a RAW file or two? If you want you can send it to the e-mail listed in my profile.
The way the sensor and processor work its one of the few cameras where you can take a 2MB JPEG and spend 4 minutes in any free edit program to make it seem similar to a film image with decent lens, so I'm guessing there is something amiss - but I'll check it good to see.
I do love the LX3 also, just believe the S90 is slightly better but interested to see what LX3 successor is like. One main thing for me is S90 size is about perfect, as larger goes can use a NEX-5 with pancake lens, and if you don't need that small you use your DSLR.
Hopefully Panasonic finds away to improve sensor and just slightly miniaturize the camera and Canon adds slightly better ergonomics and keeps the same size.
The way the sensor and processor work its one of the few cameras where you can take a 2MB JPEG and spend 4 minutes in any free edit program to make it seem similar to a film image with decent lens, so I'm guessing there is something amiss - but I'll check it good to see.
I do love the LX3 also, just believe the S90 is slightly better but interested to see what LX3 successor is like. One main thing for me is S90 size is about perfect, as larger goes can use a NEX-5 with pancake lens, and if you don't need that small you use your DSLR.
Hopefully Panasonic finds away to improve sensor and just slightly miniaturize the camera and Canon adds slightly better ergonomics and keeps the same size.
IchiroCameraGuy
Leading Member
I'm still checking them out but dear God turn down the contrast and lower EV for these photos, it's a huge difference if you would have done this. You can still salvage some with good tone curve adjustment and working on some levels. Majority of the frame even with the images like this it is still ahead of the LX3. Only way possible for the LX3 to perform better is bad samples of S90 and/or bad exposures.
The sharpening being applied is also more destructive to the overall image than Unsharp Mask from Canon's own simple free Zoom Browser.
The sharpening being applied is also more destructive to the overall image than Unsharp Mask from Canon's own simple free Zoom Browser.
sbjct
Member
Thank u very much for your help, please try on jpg now couse my dsl is out.. I will send u a raw asap..
sbjct
Member
Please show me..
gail what you say is true, but for me personally the control ring and the grip are non-issues.
...and to try to explain why I like the S90's controls and ergonomics:
My usual mode is to shoot at the lowest ISO to minimize noise (consistent with enough shutter speed to avoid camera shake and subject blur). I can accomplish this by changing the ISO via the lens ring monitoring the shutter speed on the display. Using the histogram as a guide the EC is then controlled by the small rear ring. These two direct controls (without having to plow through a menu) makes for very fast operation and GREAT ergonomics.
Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond
A good photographer doesn't let the sunlight hit the lens!
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