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gh1 ergonomics -- sore wrist on day 1

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mixwhit

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just got a brand new gh1. loving the images, but am finding that my wrist and arm are really sore from constantly contorting my hand to manipulate the tiny little 4-way buttons on the bottom right corner. i'm coming from an old canon g2: a flip-out screen camera but the flip-out was much smaller and so the thumb controls are positioned so they lie underneath where your thumb naturally goes. on the gh1, they just seem in a really awkward place.

did anyone else have this same experience, and if so, did your hand get used to it?
 
...on your new GH1 :D

At the risk of sounding controversial, "you're not holding it right" - well, if it's good enough for Apple, it's good enough for me ;)

Seriously, are you trying to hold the GH1 in your right hand alone...? If so, I can understand the strain from moving your thumb from the natural grip point (to the left of the movie record button) down to the 4-way control buttons..... but I don't think this is any different from the ergonomics on any DSLR form-factor camera.

Despite it being small, I usually hold my GH1 with my left-hand underneath the lens. That way my left palm is effectively supporting the whole weight of the camera, thus allowing my right hand to move freely to adjust the controls.

The only negative comment I would make towards GH1 ergonomics, is that I find the front control wheel a bit awkward.... Panasonic seem to have addressed that with recent G-series updates placing it round the back.

Enjoy your new camera!
 
Personally, I'm having more problems with the index finger wheel, as I'm used to thumb wheels.

I think you will get used to this. It is usual to have a bit sore hands after the first day of using new equipment, especially with a long and heavy lens.

Leave the camera alone for a few days if you have pains in your hands, and then slowly start using it again.

http://m43photo.blogspot.com/
 
mrmacmusic said:
Despite it being small, I usually hold my GH1 with my left-hand underneath the lens. That way my left palm is effectively supporting the whole weight of the camera, thus allowing my right hand to move freely to adjust the controls.
Click to expand...
Pretty much exactly what I was gonna post, I don't have a GH1, but I have a GF1 and several SLRs, and usually most of the weight of the camera is in my left hand with my fingers around the lens, and I don't keep my right on the grip when touching the other buttons.

If you want really bad ergonomics, look at some of these Canon pro bodies with the ISO button being a tiny little button that you hold down with one finger while turning a wheel directly in front of it with barely enough space for the two fingers.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mcullenphoto/
 
I found my G1 a but uncomfortable at first, but I adapted withing a couple of weeks. Overall I'm pretty happy with the camera and controls. That said, the 4-way is small, , and I'd still give up a quarter-inch of screen for a bigger 4-way.

Gato

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While it did take my fingers a couple of weeks to get used to the positions of the controls, the G1 never caused any cramps.

I'm not sure what you're working to hit the four-way buttons so often for anyway. The most common thing I use the four-way to do with the camera at my eye is turn on manual focus assist with adapted lenses. Otherwise, I use it when the camera is being held away from my eye most of the time, and in that position it's easy to hit any control without strain.
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My thumb fits naturally over the buttons, and I can operate them without looking at them pretty fast to change settings, preview photos, etc. all while keeping my eye on the EVF. I'm not sure what you're doing to get a sore hand from handling the buttons, but sounds like either you're holding the camera at some weird angle, or you have interesting hand geometry.

Something else I can think of is perhaps you're making an effort to hold your thumb over the buttons as opposed to resting it on the buttons for fear of changing the settings. I rest my thumb on those buttons or jut above them, and I haven't accidentally changed settings yet. They offer a pretty positive engagement.
 
mixwhit said:
but am finding that my wrist and arm are really sore from constantly contorting my hand to manipulate the tiny little 4-way buttons on the bottom right corner.
Click to expand...
Why do you need to use the button so often?
 
I think the OP makes a very valid point regarding holding the camera. I have been using my new G1 for a couple of days and have a similar view, I am sure after a week or two I will adapt. I feel the issue is that the 14-45 lens is so small it is difficult to hold as you would a full size DSLR lens.
 
Brian Mosley said:
I still can't understand why the one-touch MF assist zoom function (by pressing the dial) wasn't added to the G1 when they did the GF1 upgrade. :(

Did they do the GH1?
Click to expand...
Understanding why is pretty much irrelevant. No, the one-touch business was only updated on the GF1. I suspect this might be due to hardware limitations in the G1/GH1 with respect to how the buttons can be programmed.

That said, after using the one-touch for a few days with the GF1, I find it no more convenient compared to the two-button press on the G1. I was put off when I spent a few days with the G2 that that two-button press method didn't seem to be available anymore (because they changed the location of the focusing pattern switch).

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The problem I had - using the heavy P-L 14-150/MA-1 with my GH-1 - was my thumb accidentally activating the WB button. I cured this with a 1x1/4" heavy double-sided foam poster tape strip with a piece of thick felt on the outside, placed on the inner edge of the SD card door, giving enough clearance from the body/buttons. After four months/4500 shots, will need replacing soon.

Pete
 
Godfrey said:
Brian Mosley said:
I still can't understand why the one-touch MF assist zoom function (by pressing the dial) wasn't added to the G1 when they did the GF1 upgrade. :(

Did they do the GH1?
Click to expand...
Understanding why is pretty much irrelevant. No, the one-touch business was only updated on the GF1. I suspect this might be due to hardware limitations in the G1/GH1 with respect to how the buttons can be programmed.
Click to expand...
Seriously, what kind of hardware limitation do you think would prevent remapping a function from one button to another?
Godfrey said:
That said, after using the one-touch for a few days with the GF1, I find it no more convenient compared to the two-button press on the G1.
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the thumbwheel resting under your thumb would be easier to press than the two button roll-over manoeuvre necessary with the G1... this is what contributes to the cramped operation imho.
Godfrey said:
I was put off when I spent a few days with the G2 that that two-button press method didn't seem to be available anymore (because they changed the location of the focusing pattern switch).
Click to expand...
So does the G2 have the one button MF assist on the dial?

Cheers

Brian
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I have fairly normal hands and have no issues, in fact its possibly one of the most comfortable cameras I've ever owned. ;-)
mixwhit said:
just got a brand new gh1. loving the images, but am finding that my wrist and arm are really sore from constantly contorting my hand to manipulate the tiny little 4-way buttons on the bottom right corner. i'm coming from an old canon g2: a flip-out screen camera but the flip-out was much smaller and so the thumb controls are positioned so they lie underneath where your thumb naturally goes. on the gh1, they just seem in a really awkward place.

did anyone else have this same experience, and if so, did your hand get used to it?
Click to expand...
 
well my g2 has no 'one button mf assist' anywhere that I know of, you can map some functions to the down button not sure if that's one of the options.

As for handling, no problems with G2 for me, but my hand's aren't massive. Also my thumb is always hovering over the rear control thumbwheel (usually i'm doing something manually) and I find it a good placement especially with that protuding 'thumb rest' shape underneath. I hold the camera one handed a lot (on the grip) but if I'm going to be using the cursor buttons or taking a photo I'll use 2 hands and have noticed no discomfort really. Maybe the gh1 has slighty different spacing/layout on the rear (I know some buttons are in different places - i'm glad quick menu is on the back rather than top - however I can use the touchscreen 'QM on' just as quickly now i'm used to it).

Edit > read up on the GF1 mf assist and saw what it was. Tried on my G2 with no af lens on and with 'shoot without lens' on and then pressing the thumb wheel in brought up a magnified area with scroll arrows and size changable with left/right turns of the wheel is THAT what the mf assist on the gf1 does? If so yes g2 has 1 button mf assist.
 
Brian Mosley said:
Seriously, what kind of hardware limitation do you think would prevent remapping a function from one button to another?
Click to expand...
Any number of hardware limitations might come into play, Brian. How the switch is wired to the controller, whether there is programmable logic to that connection, whether there is a mechanism non-volatile storage to retain alternative storage for that connection, etc etc.

Unless you are well-versed in device level hardware/firmware/software development, a full discussion of this topic is likely too lengthy to attempt here.
Brian Mosley said:
Brian Mosley said:
That said, after using the one-touch for a few days with the GF1, I find it no more convenient compared to the two-button press on the G1.
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the thumbwheel resting under your thumb would be easier to press than the two button roll-over manoeuvre necessary with the G1... this is what contributes to the cramped operation imho.
Click to expand...
I don't grip the camera such that my thumb is constantly hovering over a control ... that would likely cause hand-cramps and foster mistaken control activations. This photo shows how I normally grip the G2 ... the G1 is very similar ... so as not to accidentally hit touch screen or discrete mechanical controls.



So using the control dial or the touch pad buttons both requires a deliberate, short movement of my thumb. Minimal chance of changing a setting accidentally this way, quick action when needed. Whether I reach down or up is equally fast.
Brian Mosley said:
Brian Mosley said:
I was put off when I spent a few days with the G2 that that two-button press method didn't seem to be available anymore (because they changed the location of the focusing pattern switch).
Click to expand...
So does the G2 have the one button MF assist on the dial?
Click to expand...
That I'm not sure as I didn't test it specifically, but I think it does, at least with adapted manual lenses.

When I was testing the G2 on loan from a friend, I spent my time working with the ZD 35 Macro, ZD 50 Macro and Panasonic G 20 lenses as most of my interest in the G2 has to do with its increased support of AF for Olympus FourThirds SLR lenses and its video recording capabilities. It does very well in both domains.

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Godfrey
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Reality Faker said:
Edit > read up on the GF1 mf assist and saw what it was. Tried on my G2 with no af lens on and with 'shoot without lens' on and then pressing the thumb wheel in brought up a magnified area with scroll arrows and size changable with left/right turns of the wheel is THAT what the mf assist on the gf1 does? If so yes g2 has 1 button mf assist.
Click to expand...
Yes, that's it... obviously things have come a long way since the G1.

Cheers

Brian
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Godfrey said:
I don't grip the camera such that my thumb is constantly hovering over a control ... that would likely cause hand-cramps and foster mistaken control activations. This photo shows how I normally grip the G2 ... the G1 is very similar ... so as not to accidentally hit touch screen or discrete mechanical controls.



So using the control dial or the touch pad buttons both requires a deliberate, short movement of my thumb. Minimal chance of changing a setting accidentally this way, quick action when needed. Whether I reach down or up is equally fast.
Click to expand...
This is a good illustration Godfrey, thanks for taking the time to post... for me, accessing the small function buttons means bending my thumb quite sharply, whereas it looks in the image like the scroll wheel is less stressful - of course, on the G1 it's on the front of the camera which is an index finger press.

Cheers

Brian
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Brian Mosley said:
This is a good illustration Godfrey, thanks for taking the time to post... for me, accessing the small function buttons means bending my thumb quite sharply, whereas it looks in the image like the scroll wheel is less stressful - of course, on the G1 it's on the front of the camera which is an index finger press.
Click to expand...
Which way I move my thumb, with that illustration in mind, is about equal ... there's no big bend associated with one vs the other. Either is a short movement: do I reach up and right, or down and slightly left? Whether the camera's at eye level or not has an impact on the movement required too.

The are so many things to think about when designing this stuff ...
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