Sony issues NEX-VG10

Sony, your time is up, close the door on the way out.

No, it is the NEX-VG10.

The NEX-7 better offer more manual controls than the NEX-5 and 1080P30 (that's 1920x1080P30, just to be clear) at a high bitrate (24Mbps) minimum. If it does, I'm in.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

• Rayna Butler

jaja_m said:

Perhaps adventsam is right. It adds nothing to photography . It can't even shoot RAW stills

aim120 said:

Adventsam said:

Try again Sony ;-) GH1 rules.

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nice joke.

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Hardly.

It doesn't subtract anything either from photography .

We are talking about a video camera that holds it's cards at photography close to any entry level DSLR/ILC camera at the present . I acknowledge that there is no reason for not having RAW captures, but at 7fps with Auto HDR, Handheld Twilight, and Anti Motion Blur I don't see that as a major let down for videographers (which is*target* here!).

It's an amazing move from Sony who was probably guessing where the boat was heading and a crushing approach from the lower segment of this market. If you think twice this camera is selling for 1200$ if you count out the 18-200mm.

Panasonic's big sensor video offering (not the GH1/GH2) will be a monster for video because I'm sure it will have a just enough resolution video dedicated sensor, not a 12-14MP beast that can't be read/binned in FHD at 30/60 fps. That's the only handicap I can identify in the Sony, apart from the auto gain which isn't likely achieved through an integrated ND filter. Either way they have enough ISO range to get away with it without using filters...

Now make no mistake: Panasonic offering is going to be a beast but it's not going to be cheap. They are going after RED .

Sony is going after you !

This is the video camera for videographers ! Drop the fanboy hat for a minute and you will grasp it.
--
Duarte Bruno

duartix said:

jaja_m said:

Perhaps adventsam is right. It adds nothing to photography . It can't even shoot RAW stills

aim120 said:

Adventsam said:

Try again Sony ;-) GH1 rules.

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nice joke.

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Hardly.

It doesn't subtract anything either from photography .

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With ommision of RAW and usage of limited NEX interface, it does .

duartix said:

We are talking about a video camera that holds it's cards at photography close to any entry level DSLR/ILC camera at the present . I acknowledge that there is no reason for not having RAW captures, but at 7fps with Auto HDR, Handheld Twilight, and Anti Motion Blur I don't see that as a major let down for videographers (which is*target* here!).

It's an amazing move from Sony who was probably guessing where the boat was heading and a crushing approach from the lower segment of this market. If you think twice this camera is selling for 1200$ if you count out the 18-200mm.

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After some thought... no it is not. GH1 was cheaper when introduced and it offers various modes for video. 1080p24, 720p60, name it. Not to mention the recent hack.

duartix said:

Panasonic's big sensor video offering (not the GH1/GH2) will be a monster for video because I'm sure it will have a just enough resolution video dedicated sensor, not a 12-14MP beast that can't be read/binned in FHD at 30/60 fps. That's the only handicap I can identify in the Sony, apart from the auto gain which isn't likely achieved through an integrated ND filter. Either way they have enough ISO range to get away with it without using filters...

Now make no mistake: Panasonic offering is going to be a beast but it's not going to be cheap. They are going after RED .

Sony is going after you !

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Nice try but I'm a photographer at first.

duartix said:

This is the video camera for videographers !

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Then where is 1080p24 and 720p60?

duartix said:

Drop the fanboy hat for a minute and you will grasp it.

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You should. I've been an A-mount user for a long time.

duartix said:

--
Duarte Bruno

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Adventsam said:

zepzr said:

GodSpeaks said:

Plus all the video modes listed are Interlaced . WTF? We are in the digital age now, interlaced went out with analog.

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that's probably a typo since Nex-5 does MP4: 1440 x 1080p ... The camcorder is probably the same.

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Yes but 30p even, seriously out of date, out of time.

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Ok, i will tell you where it crushes GH1 to bits. Low-light photopgrahy and IQ in general (what's with GH1 turning all yellows to greens?) And given the 18-200 is $800, the camcorder itself is only $1200

that takes MFT lenses.

I don't want or need video on my still camera.

I don't need or want stills on my video camera.

I'd like to produce results that do not obviously give away that I wasn't using my D3 or whatever the video equivalent is. The G1 is comfortably up to pro stills standard, if you accept some usage limitations.

I know nothing about video. I bought a camcorder about five years ago, didn't like the quality, and forgot about it. A whole new field for me. It would be nature stuff I'd be doing, I've no use for recording "family life".

Do, or will, Panasonic have something for me?

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

There is a real battle in the EVIL world, and this example of taking a still camera, repacking it and selling it as a video camera gives you an idea of where this battle may be leading.

I couldn't give a stuff about Sony's poxy horrible cameras, but I'm still very interested to know what they are up to.

And if it means the GH1 may one day be repackaged as a video camera using MFT lenses, that's fascinating.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

WOW, sony just killed it.

zepzr said:

Adventsam said:

zepzr said:

GodSpeaks said:

Plus all the video modes listed are Interlaced . WTF? We are in the digital age now, interlaced went out with analog.

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that's probably a typo since Nex-5 does MP4: 1440 x 1080p ... The camcorder is probably the same.

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Yes but 30p even, seriously out of date, out of time.

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Ok, i will tell you where it crushes GH1 to bits. Low-light photopgrahy and IQ in general (what's with GH1 turning all yellows to greens?) And given the 18-200 is $800, the camcorder itself is only $1200

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--
::> I could not learn to spell 'cos God always ate my homework.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1004/10041203panasonicagaf100.asp

Nick

Yes, different market. What I want is a GH1 re-modelled as a video camera. Much as Sony have just done...
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

If Panasonic see Sony selling bucketloads of these consumer oriented products - though at $2000 I hesitate to call it a consumer model - then I'm sure we will see something such as you envisage.

OT - it's nice to see you back.

Nick

is total, which probably makes me a typical buyer. And it looks pretty good to me. I think it will drive NEX along nicely - and they probably need to, the NEX still cameras seem to be dogs.

One nice thing about the Panny very-expensive-thing: as far as I can see the POINT is shallow DoF (the video Holy Grail, is it not?). So they'd better start making some proper lenses.

I'm delighted with my G1, and I accept it is early days so there are few decent lenses yet, but anything that pushes them in the direction of fast zooms floats my boat.

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acam
http://thegentlemansnapper.blogspot.com

It's 2000 bucks including an $800 kit lens and 99$ software, at release. In 2011 it will be close to $1000 body only. Still not consumer, but very accessible.

nick_webster said:

If Panasonic see Sony selling bucketloads of these consumer oriented products - though at $2000 I hesitate to call it a consumer model - then I'm sure we will see something such as you envisage.

OT - it's nice to see you back.

Nick

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If not it will still be $2000 which I think will be an issue to most people. Even at $1000 how can Sony get people to stump up that kind of money, when for considerably less they can get camcorders that have bigger ranges and are much lighter/smaller ? It also seems a bit crippled in the formats it can record in, but as I'm completely ignorant of video and its various formats I'm just going on what people have posted in this thread.

Yes, I understand the better high ISO, shallower DOF etc, but will Sony be able to persuade enough people to pay more than 3 times as much for those benefits ?

I don't know and I think it will be a case of wait and see.

Nick

Louis_Dobson said:

I think it will drive NEX along nicely - and they probably need to, the NEX still cameras seem to be dogs.

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Oh no, not at all. Not perfect, not even close, but nowhere near dogs either.

Have you actually seen one? Held it? I have. The NEX cameras feel very good in the hand. They have a very good grip. They are also very small. Surprisingly so, given the size of the sensor.

Personally, I feel the video is crippled in the NEX-3 and 5. So I have hopes for improvements in the 7 or 9 or whatever is next.

These NEX cameras have a lot of consumer appeal. I think Sony will sell boat loads of them.

I just hope the next gen will offer better manual control and much better video. If they do, I'm in.

Louis_Dobson said:

One nice thing about the Panny very-expensive-thing: as far as I can see the POINT is shallow DoF (the video Holy Grail, is it not?). So they'd better start making some proper lenses.

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The shallow DoF is not as desireable as many think. For one it means your focus must be very accurate and must not drift. That means using AF is a no no. Ever seen focus hunting in full HD? This is the one thing that you do not want.

The large sensor video cameras are what the pro and semi-pro videomakers want. But they never use AF. They also set up their shots and preset the focus. This is not the way amateurs work. Amateurs often shoot while walking, running or use point and spray. AF will have your lens constantly hunting for focus. Net result... bad video. Ok, to be fair, even with manual focus, the above methods would yield bad video LOL.

As for lenses, with the micro43 mount and a suitable mount adapter, you can mount almost any lens ever made onto the camera. So a lack of lenses is not something one needs to worry about, especially given you will be shooting in full manual mode anyway.

I own a Sony PMW-EX1 and have never used AF on that camera. I only rarely use auto exposure, mostly I shoot full manual.

On my GF1, when I shoot video, I prefocus and then shoot. Again, never AF for video.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

• Rayna Butler

This must be a joke. Who is going to use a camcorder that starts at F3.5 and finishes up at the telephoto end at F6.3 for minimum aperture? There is a reason why all good camcorders have very wide apertures. This thing is going to suck indoors. You are not going to get the shallow depth of field or the low light capabilities either.

Without a 1080p @ 24 FPS mode no one will take it seriously. And is this really an interlaced camcorder? That is just stupid when all TVs and monitors are progressive.

For $2000 I can buy an excellent lens and a GH13 and blow the doors off that camcorder. Never mind the fact that the GH2 is just around the corner.

I just hope Panny doesn't blow it with the GH2 and try to follow Sony's lead.

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

• 23.4 x 15.6 mm Exmor APS HD CMOS Sensor
• 14.2 million effective pixels
• FX : 1920 x 1080i @ 24Mbps
• FH : 1920 x 1080i @ 16Mbps
• MP4: 1440 x 1080i @ 9Mbps

A $2000 all interlaced camcorder in a progressive world. Brilliant!

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1007/10071401sonynexvg10e.asp

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
http://vimeo.com/user442745
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums

■Cross posting - We frown upon cross-posting of messages, especially if it is continuously abused by the same posters and/or simply contains an image or gallery link. Anyone repeatedly cross posting may have their cross-posted messages removed and/or face a temporary ban.

This OP posted the same message in News Talk which is actually the correct place for it. He cross posted it here to stir things up again just like he did in the past right after the NEX review was published by DPR.

mpgxsvcd said:

This must be a joke. Who is going to use a camcorder that starts at F3.5 and finishes up at the telephoto end at F6.3 for minimum aperture? There is a reason why all good camcorders have very wide apertures. This thing is going to suck indoors. You are not going to get the shallow depth of field or the low light capabilities either.

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Let's compare for eample with a Canon HF S20 camcorder. At the wide angle end of the Canon, the Sony combination will give you roughly 2 stops better performance, either in noise or shallower DOF. At around 300mm (35mm equiv.), the Canon would have to go sub F1 to equal the DOF or noise performance and since the lens is rated F1.8-F3.0 throughout the zoomrange, it's clear it can't match the Sony in this regard. You're forgetting the F stops are related to sensor size and the Sony sensor is 16 times larger than for example the one in the Canon HF S20.