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High ISO Comparison 7D vs D700.

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SpartanWarrior

SpartanWarrior

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Well after reading so many FF this and that, I really wanted to see how my 7D compared to my friends D700 and I am really surprised it did so well ( more so my friend), I don't even think there is a stop difference @ ISO 6400 or 12800 these were shot in RAW and just cropped no NR or PP
Here is the full shot from my 7D at ISO 12800 with the EF 24-105 at f4



now the crops from both cameras starting at ISO 1600
7D f4 ISO 1600



D700 Nikon 24-85 @ f4 ISO 1600



7D ISO 3200



D700 ISO 3200



7D ISO 6400



D700 ISO 6400



next post crops at ISO 12800.
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Both cameras were set to f/4
now here are the shutter speeds
7D
ISO 1600 1/30
ISO3200 1/45
ISO 6400 1/90
ISO 12800 1/180

D700
ISO 1600 1/50
ISO 3200 1/100
ISO 6400 1/200
ISO 12800 1/400

but I don't think that the shutter speeds being different will have a effect on noise that much.
Pultzar said:
Were the shutter speeds and aperture identical for both cameras?
Click to expand...
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Wow, I am astonished at just how well the 7D holds it's own against the D700. I am viewing them via my iPhone but it appears the 7D us actually better at 12800. I need to view the comparison from home later.
 
The purpose of High ISO is to support an exposure for a desired shutter speed/aperture. The D700's ISO ratings are more conservative than the 7D/5DMII, so it can achieve the same exposure using a faster shutter speed. Inversely, this means you can shoot at a lower ISO with the D700 to get an equivalent shutter speed/exposure vs. the 7D/5DMII. For your ISO 3200-12800 shots, the D700 selected a shutter speed twice as fast as the 7D, giving it a base advantage of one full stop even before comparing the images.
SpartanWarrior said:
D700
ISO 1600 1/50
ISO 3200 1/100
ISO 6400 1/200
ISO 12800 1/400

but I don't think that the shutter speeds being different will have a effect on noise that much.
Pultzar said:
Were the shutter speeds and aperture identical for both cameras?
Click to expand...
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Click to expand...
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I am sort of with you here and think the same, just wait till Nikon people get over here, world war 3 will start lol;)
kimvette said:
Wow, I am astonished at just how well the 7D holds it's own against the D700. I am viewing them via my iPhone but it appears the 7D us actually better at 12800. I need to view the comparison from home later.
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior
 
Yes but I do not see a stop difference in the noise department though, don't get me wrong I just ordered the 5D Mark II because I need a 2nd camera, but for a crop camera the 7D is fantastic;)
Horshack said:
The purpose of High ISO is to support an exposure for a desired shutter speed/aperture. The D700's ISO ratings are more conservative than the 7D/5DMII, so it can achieve the same exposure using a faster shutter speed. Inversely, this means you can shoot at a lower ISO with the D700 to get an equivalent shutter speed/exposure vs. the 7D/5DMII. For your ISO 3200-12800 shots, the D700 selected a shutter speed twice as fast as the 7D, giving it a base advantage of one full stop even before comparing the images.
SpartanWarrior said:
D700
ISO 1600 1/50
ISO 3200 1/100
ISO 6400 1/200
ISO 12800 1/400

but I don't think that the shutter speeds being different will have a effect on noise that much.
Pultzar said:
Were the shutter speeds and aperture identical for both cameras?
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior
Click to expand...
--
Kodak Instant Camera
Kyocera 1MP Camera phone (pre-paid phone plan)
http://horshack.smugmug.com/
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior
 
I can but where? they are RAW just converted to jpeg we had both cameras set the same exposure compensation to 0.
gonzalu said:
Without them it is hard to really compare. Also, you should have tried using autoexposure of some sort in order to let the camera choose the proper exposure for its ISO calibration as well as a hard set exposure.
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Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior
 
You may not being seeing a one-stop difference at equivalent nominal ISOs but you're comparing the images one-stop apart due to the shutter speed differences. In other words, based on equivalent shutter speeds/exposures, your 7D shot that requires ISO 6400 is achieved with the D700 at ISO 3200. So you need to compare the D700's ISO 3200 image vs. the 7D's ISO 6400 image.
SpartanWarrior said:
Yes but I do not see a stop difference in the noise department though, don't get me wrong I just ordered the 5D Mark II because I need a 2nd camera, but for a crop camera the 7D is fantastic;)
Horshack said:
The purpose of High ISO is to support an exposure for a desired shutter speed/aperture. The D700's ISO ratings are more conservative than the 7D/5DMII, so it can achieve the same exposure using a faster shutter speed. Inversely, this means you can shoot at a lower ISO with the D700 to get an equivalent shutter speed/exposure vs. the 7D/5DMII. For your ISO 3200-12800 shots, the D700 selected a shutter speed twice as fast as the 7D, giving it a base advantage of one full stop even before comparing the images.
SpartanWarrior said:
D700
ISO 1600 1/50
ISO 3200 1/100
ISO 6400 1/200
ISO 12800 1/400

but I don't think that the shutter speeds being different will have a effect on noise that much.
Pultzar said:
Were the shutter speeds and aperture identical for both cameras?
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior
Click to expand...
--
Kodak Instant Camera
Kyocera 1MP Camera phone (pre-paid phone plan)
http://horshack.smugmug.com/
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior
Click to expand...
--
Kodak Instant Camera
Kyocera 1MP Camera phone (pre-paid phone plan)
http://horshack.smugmug.com/
 
The 7D does so well here because it's receiving more exposure. You have to shoot an identical target under identical lighting with identical settings (aperture, shutter).

That said, the 7D does do very well in general. At high ISOs the D700 pulls ahead, but only by about 1-1.5 stops. Of course you have to compare prints or view at equal magnification. Viewing both at 100% in Photoshop will make the 18 MP 7D look worse because the image is being magnified more.

In all fairness part of the 7D's performance at high ISO is thanks to detail smearing noise reduction. But with 18 MP the 7D can afford to apply NR and still resolve as much detail as the D700.

At low to mid ISO the 7D actually out performs the D700 thanks to the resolution advantage. The 7D captures more fine detail for larger prints.

Both are excellent cameras. The 7D has the edge at low to mid ISO while the D700 takes the prize at high ISO. But they're pretty close across the board. Either camera is an excellent tool.
 
What program did you use to convert the RAWs? If you're using ACR or LR, I believe the software automatically applies NR to the image (chroma), so make sure you disable it.

Comparing both cameras at Imaging-resource.com, there's no comparison. Yes, I know they shoot in-camera JPEG, but Nikon jpegs aren't that great either :)

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I didn't post these to say that the 7D has better ISO but that it is also good at high ISO, they were both shot at same target same lighting and aperture only shutter speed was different, oh well. Now 1 1/5 stops I don't know about that if you look at the D700 ISO 3200 and my ISO 6400 there is not a stop and a half difference.
Daniel Lee Taylor said:
The 7D does so well here because it's receiving more exposure. You have to shoot an identical target under identical lighting with identical settings (aperture, shutter).

That said, the 7D does do very well in general. At high ISOs the D700 pulls ahead, but only by about 1-1.5 stops. Of course you have to compare prints or view at equal magnification. Viewing both at 100% in Photoshop will make the 18 MP 7D look worse because the image is being magnified more.

In all fairness part of the 7D's performance at high ISO is thanks to detail smearing noise reduction. But with 18 MP the 7D can afford to apply NR and still resolve as much detail as the D700.

At low to mid ISO the 7D actually out performs the D700 thanks to the resolution advantage. The 7D captures more fine detail for larger prints.

Both are excellent cameras. The 7D has the edge at low to mid ISO while the D700 takes the prize at high ISO. But they're pretty close across the board. Either camera is an excellent tool.
Click to expand...
--
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I did not open in ACR or Lightroom, Just from bridge to photoshop and converted to srgb and cropped.
jl_smith said:
What program did you use to convert the RAWs? If you're using ACR or LR, I believe the software automatically applies NR to the image (chroma), so make sure you disable it.

Comparing both cameras at Imaging-resource.com, there's no comparison. Yes, I know they shoot in-camera JPEG, but Nikon jpegs aren't that great either :)

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/
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Gear listed in profile!
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior
 
I saved both full-sized JPEGS from imaging-resource.com and opened them in CS5, saved screenshot. Then I downrezzed the 7D to 12MP (bicubic sharper) and took another screenshot. These are the ISO 12800 shots (both were at 1/2000s f/8)

Original files:



Resized 7D file:
"



I'm not saying the 7D isn't a great crop camera ( I rented it for a week with the 400mm f/5.6L), but a D700 it isn't.

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JL Smith
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http://jl-smith.smugmug.com
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And it's not a 5D II either yes I agree, but for a crop camera it's great.
jl_smith said:
I saved both full-sized JPEGS from imaging-resource.com and opened them in CS5, saved screenshot. Then I downrezzed the 7D to 12MP (bicubic sharper) and took another screenshot. These are the ISO 12800 shots (both were at 1/2000s f/8)

Original files:



Resized 7D file:
"



I'm not saying the 7D isn't a great crop camera ( I rented it for a week with the 400mm f/5.6L), but a D700 it isn't.

--
JL Smith
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/
http://jl-smith.smugmug.com
Gear listed in profile!
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/spartanwarrior
 
SpartanWarrior said:
And it's not a 5D II either yes I agree, but for a crop camera it's great.
Click to expand...
Yes I agree :) I rented it and almost chose to go Canon, but decided to stay Nikon, as I like how their bodies operate a bit more, and the D700 is a great balance of features and performance. If I didn't have the D700 (and D90 and lots of lenses) I would probably have the 5D2 and 24-105 f/4 and a couple of primes.

JL Smith
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/
http://jl-smith.smugmug.com
Gear listed in profile!
 
But here's an example to illustrate the problem - suppose you put the 7D on ISO 100 but program the LCD to display 12800. Now your 7D "12800" noise will be way, way better then the D700. Yeah!!!! But that's because you're mislabeling the ISO rating and the Canon sensor received 128x as many photons and had to do much less amplification.

Obviously Nikon was much more conservative (and realistic, from testing I've seen over the years), so the D700 sensor at ISO 6400 is actually amplifying the received light a lot more than the 7D at ISO6400, which received more than twice as much light. The fact this it still has less noise means it's more than 1 stop better at noise control.

This is actually still quite impressive - the 7D seems to be 1.2-1.5 stops less effective, with less than 40% of the sensor area. Actually, that's about what you would expect.
 
The ONLY purpose of high ISO is to allow you to use a higher shutter speed or smaller aperture. High ISO is not a purpose by itself. At ISO 12800 you are using twice the shutter speed on the D700, that's huge when shooting sports.

F4 may not always be F4 either. It's really hard to compare noise. Going to CS5 w/the new ACR noise reduction made a huge difference in performance for me.
SpartanWarrior said:
7D
ISO 1600 1/30
ISO3200 1/45
ISO 6400 1/90
ISO 12800 1/180

D700
ISO 1600 1/50
ISO 3200 1/100
ISO 6400 1/200
ISO 12800 1/400
Click to expand...
 
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