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Butterfly Macro & DOF Question

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Moxxi

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I shot a butterfly yesterday and it's really my first time ever shooting this type of subject so I had a question. I'm showing two shots and their corresponding EXIF data so you can see f-stop and all that goodness. I was curious how to get more of the butterfly in focus. I shot with a Tamron 90mm macro lens and I was less than a foot away from the subject.

The best one of the bunch is the only one where the antennae is cut off and that is the one shot at F4.

Of course, if there are any other technical points you all can give that's awesome, but I was more or less surprised at the focus. I've only used this lens for portraits and it's been amazing all the way. Not that it cannot be amazing here, this is user error ... :o

















--
I prefer night photography so I shoot with the lens cap on.
 
Moxxi said:
I shot a butterfly yesterday and it's really my first time ever shooting this type of subject so I had a question. I'm showing two shots and their corresponding EXIF data so you can see f-stop and all that goodness. I was curious how to get more of the butterfly in focus. I shot with a Tamron 90mm macro lens and I was less than a foot away from the subject.
Click to expand...
Without studying closer, a butterfly or flower macro to show that size on the picture, f/4 is really not big enough number. It is quite common to use f/8, f/11 for such subjects. Of course you must make enough light so your shutter speed is 1/250th or faster in case of hand shake or subject motion.

--



Ananda
http://anandasim.blogspot.com

'There are a whole range of greys and colours - from
the photographer who shoots everything in iA / green
AUTO to the one who shoots Manual Everything. There
is no right or wrong - there are just instances of
individuality and individual choice.'
 
I hadn't realized how small those exports were.

Here is a slightly larger version but you're right. f/4 (I've been reading in the last few minutes after posting) is not ideal. A couple of things I can do would be to pull out the tripod or monopod from the truck, up the ISO (this was 200) and use the D300's ability to shoot at higher ISOs with lower noise for once, and of course move to f/8 or higher. It was about 2 pm, sun was very bright and high and this was shot in the shade.

Thanks so much for your feedback. I may head back there today to see if he returns. My bee shots were better but they're smaller so f/4 worked, even if by accident.





--
I prefer night photography so I shoot with the lens cap on.
 
For butterflies you need a fairly fast shutter speed. I'd use f/16 and a strobe. You might also consider a focus rail for your tripod. You fix the focus on your lens and use the rail to focus on the subject. It might not work well for butterflies, though. Adorama focus rails are dirt cheap.

Here's a bit of a trick. Don't tell anyone. Catch the butterfly in a net. Put it in the freezer, but only for a very short time so as not to kill it. Take it out and put it on a limb. It won't move for a while. You can use a light tent and a limb. You get a perfect close macro shot because you've set up the lighting and everything ahead of time.

Don't do what some people do and superglue the bug to a limb. Not nice and ends up with bad karma. Just a little cooling to slow it down. Some use that can of dust off as it cools as well in the field. Again, not too much and non-toxic.

--
Cheers, Craig

Equipment in Plan via Profile
 
Shooting macro means your DoF falls off FAST . The shot below was @ f/11 and you can see the area directly in front of the rings and then even the back of the rings are OoF.



 
There are three variables affecting DOF:
  • Focal Length
  • Aperture
  • Distance to Subject
Your Shallowest depth of field will result when:
  • Using your Longest focal length, 100 mm for instance
  • Widest Aperture, f/2.8 for instance
  • Be as to the subject as possible and still be able to focus, typically inches
Your Deepest depth of field will result when:
  • Using your Shortest focal length, 24 mm for instance
  • A very narrow Aperture, f/18 for instance
  • Have relatively long distance between you and the subject, for instance several feet
From the way you shot your butterfly, you fell into the Shallow DOF result.

And so your question is how to increase the DOF? Very easy.

Since you have a fixed focal length lens, that variable cannot change. But you can change the aperture and the distance to the subject. Next time try this:
  • Use a narrow aperture like f/8 or f/11.
  • Get back about 2 feet for instance.
Here's an example where I changed only one variable of the three. With each shot the focal length was 100mm and the distance to the flower was about 9 inches. The first shot was at f/2.8, and the second was at f/14

F/2.8, Notice here that the DOF is insanely shallow.



F/14, And here the DOF deepens.



Hope this helps out some.

Good Luck, Mike
Moxxi said:
I shot a butterfly yesterday and it's really my first time ever shooting this type of subject so I had a question. I'm showing two shots and their corresponding EXIF data so you can see f-stop and all that goodness. I was curious how to get more of the butterfly in focus. I shot with a Tamron 90mm macro lens and I was less than a foot away from the subject.

The best one of the bunch is the only one where the antennae is cut off and that is the one shot at F4.

Of course, if there are any other technical points you all can give that's awesome, but I was more or less surprised at the focus. I've only used this lens for portraits and it's been amazing all the way. Not that it cannot be amazing here, this is user error ... :o
Click to expand...
Moxxi said:
--
I prefer night photography so I shoot with the lens cap on.
Click to expand...
--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)

 
Ah man...that's funny as heck!!! We have a truck load of moths flying around where I live, some as big as my hand.

I'm going to take a stab at photographing some "Frosty Fly's". Thanks for the freezer tip :)

Regards, Mike
Guidenet said:
Here's a bit of a trick. Don't tell anyone. Catch the butterfly in a net. Put it in the freezer, but only for a very short time so as not to kill it. Take it out and put it on a limb. It won't move for a while. You can use a light tent and a limb. You get a perfect close macro shot because you've set up the lighting and everything ahead of time.

Don't do what some people do and superglue the bug to a limb. Not nice and ends up with bad karma. Just a little cooling to slow it down. Some use that can of dust off as it cools as well in the field. Again, not too much and non-toxic.

--
Cheers, Craig

Equipment in Plan via Profile
Click to expand...
--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)

 
Some real sage advice here folks, I really appreciate it. Bugs/Macro kind of new for me. Definitately would serve me best to practice more and understand hyperfocal distance more on this particular lens as it relates to these types of subjects. I have a keeper here below but the focus plane was flat pretty much whereas in the second shot I clearly needed to work on the focus distance. Both shot at f/8. In case I did not mention, I am using a 90mm Tamron lens on a D300.









--
I prefer night photography so I shoot with the lens cap on.
 
Ahhhh.. wait. Don't eat em. They're not Frosties. hmmmm. maybe they are good.

Viewed your plan. LOL. Looks like your camera protection insurance is a bit like mine. :-)
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Cheers, Craig

Equipment in Plan via Profile
 
Seriously... I'm going to catch one of those bat sized moths and try the freezer trick...they are beautiful...green with an eye pattern on each wing.

Good Grief...my gear list is nothing compared to what you have. You got it...there's nothing like some good ole fashion insurance to protect what's mine. :)

Regards, Mike
Guidenet said:
Ahhhh.. wait. Don't eat em. They're not Frosties. hmmmm. maybe they are good.

Viewed your plan. LOL. Looks like your camera protection insurance is a bit like mine. :-)
--
Cheers, Craig

Equipment in Plan via Profile
Click to expand...
--
B.R.A.S.S. (Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze)

 
Even if you have a shallow DOF you might be able to get closer and
see even more details and perhaps get one of those shots where you
can see the individual eye parts of the insects...

Once at f8 - f11 with enough light you will only need more patience and
get more bad images. If you go to sites such as juzaphoto.com or find
your favourite tamron 90 images at flicker you may notice that it's often

possible to align your subject to get into the DOF - at least for that 1 in 100 image.

Manual focusing is good but once close moving the camera back/forth with turn
different parts of the insect into focus.

You have a fast camera so fire a series of shots and see which one hit the best focus, a slight movement from your side may give you a few different shots.
There are also software such as combine zp to stack images with different focus.

Your last shots from a distance could actually have benefit from having a much smaller aperture to blur out the background and isolate your subject better.
 
If one expresses depth of field as a fraction of field width the only variables that matter for macros are F-Stop and magnification.

The Depth/Width ratio is a fair way to simplify matters since a huge DOF is useless if the subject is too small to see.

A useful practical equation describing the Depth/Width percentage for macros is:

D/W% = (f-stop)(1+1/m) 5

Example: for f:8, m=1/2

D/W% = (8)(1+1/2) 5 ~ 2.4 - the image depth is only 2.4% of its width..not much!

Dave

PS The equation assumes a display pixel of 0.25mm and a display width of 250mm. Hyperfocal effects are very small for practical macro photography and can safely be ignored.
 
Darned auto formatting messed with the equations... they should be:

D/W% = (f-stop)(1+1/m) / 5

Example: for f:8, m=1 / 2

D/W% = (8)(1+1/2) / 5 ~ 2.4 - the image depth is only 2.4% of its width..not much!
Dave Martin said:
If one expresses depth of field as a fraction of field width the only variables that matter for macros are F-Stop and magnification.

The Depth/Width ratio is a fair way to simplify matters since a huge DOF is useless if the subject is too small to see.

A useful practical equation describing the Depth/Width percentage for macros is:

D/W% = (f-stop)(1+1/m) 5

Example: for f:8, m=1/2

D/W% = (8)(1+1/2) 5 ~ 2.4 - the image depth is only 2.4% of its width..not much!

Dave

PS The equation assumes a display pixel of 0.25mm and a display width of 250mm. Hyperfocal effects are very small for practical macro photography and can safely be ignored.
Click to expand...
 
Awww, where's the sport in that!

I've heard of things like killing them and pinning them to branches, but never freezing them. I wonder which is more humane.
 
I fully understand this concept, of course now it's time to apply it. ;-)
Thank you all again, really.
--
I prefer night photography so I shoot with the lens cap on.
 
I went back out again and tried some more ... got a few images that I can be happy with. Thank you all again for your help.









--
I prefer night photography so I shoot with the lens cap on.
 
Hello,

there is another trick, which is viable if you post process your photos: it's called focus stacking. In short, you shoot a series of photos of the same subject with the same aperture, speed and ISO and change the focus plane in every shot, by changing focus or by using a rail head on a tripod and moving the camera slightly.

Then you have to merge the shots with software that knows about focus stacking to get a composite image with all the bits in focus merged. You can also do it manually with Photoshop.

This also works with big bugs and you can get the macro equivalent of panoramas.

It's not an exact science and it takes a long time to get it right. I think I am still not there ;)

As others have written, if you can't use a tripod (some times you can't, some times your subjects just move too much) you may do with a macro flash.

My macro gallery
http://www.robertodemicheli.com/album/index.html?openfolder=Macro/Insects/

Some samples:









--
Ciao!
Roberto

My photos: http://www.robertodemicheli.com
 
I'll have to look into apps that have focus stacking. I have Aperture, Photoshop and Raw Photo Processor (great if you have a mac), but I've never tried focus stacking.

Your images are truly impressive. envy
--
I prefer night photography so I shoot with the lens cap on.
 
Moxxi said:
I'll have to look into apps that have focus stacking. I have Aperture, Photoshop and Raw Photo Processor (great if you have a mac), but I've never tried focus stacking.
Click to expand...
Afaik, Photoshop CS4 and CS5 have it, other versions of Photoshop (including Elements) don't but you can do it manually with layers and masking, although the problem with manual editing is generally blending the various frames to get even brightness / colours.

See here for a list of alternative software packages:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_stacking
Moxxi said:
Your images are truly impressive. envy
Click to expand...
Thanks :D
Just keep trying and you will get there!
Patience is a must with bugs...

--
Ciao!
Roberto

My photos: http://www.robertodemicheli.com
 
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