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Agreed, that is a very good price. RAW is not something that I care about in a point and shoot. The lens is nice and fast but for what I am looking for I do think the zoom would be missed.

It is a great camera. I went and looked at one and it does seem a bit big for a pocketable camera. Certainly worth a second look though.
ulfie said:
"...a few have suggested the LX3 and while I think it's a great camera and have lusted after one for ages I'm not looking to spend $500+ right now..."

FYI, the LX3 can be had for $380~90 w/ free shipping, not $500+. It also has RAW and f/2~2.8. For me it's a perfect all-the-time, take-anywhere camera. Do I miss the longer zoom range? No.
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Erik Ohlson said:
Erik Ohlson said:
opticus said:
I just looked at the Flickr set and those are fabulous. The best thing is that I was just in Spain and several of those locations so that is precisely the kind of thing I am wanting this point and shoot for. The interior shots of the church was terrific (and I know you can't use flash in the church's or cathedrals). I am very impressed.
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His pics are very good indeed. Just keep in mind that he does a lot of post-processing so you will need to also to achieve the same results. The images are sharpened in post for example.
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He STATES that he does NO PP except resizing using a proprietary resizing application which does sharpen .25 pixels worth.

".......a lot of PP" is a damned lie unless one has proof.

A man is innocent unless proven guilty.

Please don't list yourself as someone too jealous of his skills, you must be a nicer person than that.
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Your flame baiting got old long before this thread and I won't even respond to it. It has already been proven that he post-processes (sharpening, HDR) so that is an old and tired discussion. Likewise, I have already stated that I think he takes great pics. I think post-processing is a skill as much as taking the pic itself. 'Nuff said.
 
Anyway opticus, my point was simply that you will need to perform post-processing to achieve some of the desired results, such as the increased DR or sharpening. There's nothing wrong with that but I did feel you should be informed so you can make the choice for yourself. Some people don't like to PP at all when it comes to P&S cameras. I think the ZS cameras are a great choice.
 
To state the obvious ... discussion is good, to get differing opinions and decide what's right for you. Any of these cams will allow you to get pretty nice pics, if you know how. If YOU are a good photographer, you might even do better than many people with DSLRs that don't have the experience, creativity or expertise. I know. Heresy.

So, why don't we get out there and stop arguing, and take some pictures? Please ; )
 
True, if you need/want more zoom, you're better off with another camera. As for pocketable, the LX3 fits perfectly and snuggly into my "fifth pocket," a belt-loop case.
 
Well said, and I do appreciate the heads up. I'm okay with doing work in post. I can always automate it if need be. You are right in that it is something that needs to be considered when buying a point and shoot as the expectations are very different (you expect it to not need any work after the fact). Thank you.
Ach3r0n said:
Anyway opticus, my point was simply that you will need to perform post-processing to achieve some of the desired results, such as the increased DR or sharpening. There's nothing wrong with that but I did feel you should be informed so you can make the choice for yourself. Some people don't like to PP at all when it comes to P&S cameras. I think the ZS cameras are a great choice.
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Well, it's true that we all make accommodations for those things that we favor. If I found myself completely smitten with the LX3 then I would likely be arguing that it was "pocketable enough" or that I "carried a backpack everywhere" so it didn't matter. I like the LX3 quite a lot but for whatever reason it just isn't what I am looking for.

Right now I am trying to work out what I want vs need (although in truth I don't NEED any of these cameras as I have a closet full of cameras). Zoom, portability, video, price all play into it. For me this stems form the fact that I just finished lugging a DSLR and lenses all over Spain and it was a huge P.I.T.A. The images were terrific (for me) but it greatly cut down my enjoyment of the trip to be constantly playing nursemaid to my camera. IN the end I realized that I was completely willing to sacrifice image quality (even with something like an LX3 or Canon S90 vs my DSLR) for the freedom to explore unencumbered by gear.

So, here I am. Anyway, thank you for your input. I appreciate it.
ulfie said:
True, if you need/want more zoom, you're better off with another camera. As for pocketable, the LX3 fits perfectly and snuggly into my "fifth pocket," a belt-loop case.
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Just returned from Niagara Falls--weekend trip. Had my dslr, 2 lenses, my G11, and my Panasonic ZS3.

I used my ZS3 a lot! My wife used hers too. In fact she used it better than I did. She has a wonderful video of fireworks...
The Pany has a lovely 25-300 lens; works well!
DaveL
Toronto
 
I suspect the same will be true for me.
D Lynch said:
Just returned from Niagara Falls--weekend trip. Had my dslr, 2 lenses, my G11, and my Panasonic ZS3.

I used my ZS3 a lot! My wife used hers too. In fact she used it better than I did. She has a wonderful video of fireworks...
The Pany has a lovely 25-300 lens; works well!
DaveL
Toronto
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I think am going with the ZS3 instead of the Fuji F200EXR or FUji F70EXR. From what I can tell (a number of generous folk posting images showing what the ZS3 can do) I felt it produced images that had very good IQ in decent light and low light images that respond well to noise cleanup. I also ended up going for the longer reach of the ZS3. When it came down to it I decided the better IS, UI and especially the video (which was not what I expected) of the Panasonic trumped the low light of the Fujis. I suppose can use my DSLR or even my older Fuji F40 for low light but if need be.

Now to track one down...being discontinued I am having to search eBay, Craigslist and the various e-tailers to find one that is not ridiculously priced. I guess a blue one will be out of the question (silver is good too). Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. They were much appreciated.

Wish me luck.

PS. As a fall back, I found a NIB F70EXR for $200 (locally) in case I can turn up any decent ZS3's.
 
opticus said:
I think am going with the ZS3 instead of the Fuji F200EXR or FUji F70EXR. From what I can tell (a number of generous folk posting images showing what the ZS3 can do) I felt it produced images that had very good IQ in decent light and low light images that respond well to noise cleanup. I also ended up going for the longer reach of the ZS3. When it came down to it I decided the better IS, UI and especially the video (which was not what I expected) of the Panasonic trumped the low light of the Fujis. I suppose can use my DSLR or even my older Fuji F40 for low light but if need be.

Now to track one down...being discontinued I am having to search eBay, Craigslist and the various e-tailers to find one that is not ridiculously priced. I guess a blue one will be out of the question (silver is good too). Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions. They were much appreciated.

Wish me luck.

PS. As a fall back, I found a NIB F70EXR for $200 (locally) in case I can turn up any decent ZS3's.
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I think you made the right choice. I really love what Panasonic did with the ZS3 - it is truly a great camera. Colors, sharpening, details... you really can't go wrong with ZS line of cameras. Only downside is its not so great low light abilities.

One other camera I would consider is Casio Exilim FH100 . It won the "Compact Travel Zoom Camera" group test here at DPReview and it seems it's a good choice. Look at this interesting thread over at the Fuji sub-forum where they compare it with F70: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1012&thread=35708515 and here's the mentioned test just in case you missed it: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q210grouptravelzoom/

Good luck.

--
It's not stupid; it's advanced.
 
I took some beach shots on the Carlsbad, CA today. Now that you decided on ZS3, I thought it might be helpful to see what it can do under dim outdoor (cloudy, near sunset). All images are original with absolutely no PP done. Taken in normal mode with intelligent ISO maxed at 800, iExposure on.























 
I notice that RefurbDepot has refurbished ZS3's for $234.95



http://www.refurbdepot.com/PANASONIC_LUMIX_DMC-ZS3K.cfm?GDFTRK=gdfV21410_a_7c686_a_7c2343_a_7c8037&REFERERID=RD_PriceGrabber

The best price after that seems to be Amazon at $315:

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-ZS3-Digital-Stabilized-Black/dp/B001QFZMCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278303803&sr=8-1

You're right. These are really hard to find right now. If you can't find a ZS3, then I'd suggest you up your budget a little and get a ZS7 (Amazon has them for $290. Even in blue!)

The ZS7 is pretty much the same camera as the ZS3, with three significant improvement:
  • Higher resolution sensor with improved processing engine
  • Has Aperture and Shutter Priority modes
  • Has built in GPS ability
--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
Olympus E-30
Olympus E-P1

 
I agree, given the tough availability and pricing of ZS3 right now. If IR feature is turned off, ZS7 should be very close to ZS3 with additional user controls on the picture quality. For me, having ASM modes, picture adjust menu alone is worth of getting it.
 
Jinwons said:
I took some beach shots on the Carlsbad, CA today. Now that you decided on ZS3, I thought it might be helpful to see what it can do under dim outdoor (cloudy, near sunset). All images are original with absolutely no PP done. Taken in normal mode with intelligent ISO maxed at 800, iExposure on.























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Considering the conditions those are not bad at all.
 
From what I understand the picture quality of the ZS3 is superior to that of the ZS7 (I'm one of those folks that believe less MP is often better).

$235 sounds fine. Are refurbs decent? I have bought a few Fuji refurbs and they are fine and Apple refurbs which are always as good as new. Is Panasonic the same?
 
I've purchased refurbished cameras and lenses and have never had a problem with them. Just make sure these are "refurbished by Panasonic" and not by some guy working out of his garage!

As far as the MP count goes, there certainly are advantages to larger photosiles. But with a sensor this small, there is very little difference between 10MP and 12MP. In both cases the photosiles are extremely small.

And there are advantages to having more resolution too. Like for cropping,

In any case, I doubt there will be much difference in the image quality between the ZS3 and ZS7. All the reviews tend to say they are very similar.
--
Marty
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
Olympus E-30
Olympus E-P1

 
The good news is that quality of images is improving! I haven't caught on to the new camera lineups. Panasonic GF1? Other choices?

Trap for me is that I want a camera that focuses quickly too.

Used my Pany ZS3 a lot at Niagara Falls. Could have left the other stuff home...

DaveL
Toronto
 
Well if you like an old camera go for Canon G6/7, several on eBay for low price.

If you like a new one with good lens and capability, maybe you should listen what dpreview suggested in their travel zoom result ... Casio FH100 is my pick!

otherwise Canon S9 is very compact and perfect as a second to DSLR.
 
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