Warm Red Hue with 717 Indoors

David Abramson120600 · Oct 13, 2002

I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Sample image:

probepro · Oct 13, 2002

David Abramson said:
I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When
shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am
shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same
results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead
lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

I don't think there is too much you can do about this. When using the internal flash, the F707/F717 calculates white balance with a preflash, regardless of the WB setting. You might try lowering or increasing the flash output, or using an external flash.

Chuck

jrouss · Oct 13, 2002

Try a manual white balance, I find much better results that way.

David Abramson said:
I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When
shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am
shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same
results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead
lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Sample image:

Merle Sebzda · Oct 13, 2002

David Abramson said:
I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When
shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am
shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same
results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead
lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Sample image:

Roliaz replied:

What other light sources are there? Possibly, what you are experiencing is incadescent light factoring into the equation.

Try the same scene without any other lights.

Rick Ashford · Oct 13, 2002

I concur with Roliaz here.... WB setting should not be a factor, since the camera ignores WB settings when using the flash. If you are using the "slow sync" flash (Night Portrait mode) with incandescent lights on, the additional illumination resulting from the light bulbs could be causing the reddish cast. Even if not in slow sync flash mode, strong incandescent ambient light could be enough to override the flash WB.

Roliaz said:
David Abramson said:

I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When
shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am
shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same
results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead
lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Sample image:

Click to expand...

Roliaz replied:
What other light sources are there? Possibly, what you are
experiencing is incadescent light factoring into the equation.

Try the same scene without any other lights.

--
Rick A.
Johnson City, TN

David Abramson120600 · Oct 13, 2002

Thanks all. There is in fact incandescent light. Of course I am comparing to my experience with the coolpix as the Sony is still new to me. The flash is clearly better than the coolpix, not nearly as hot. I'll take your suggestions at hand and see if I can get better results!

Rick Ashford said:
Roliaz said:

David Abramson said:

I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When
shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am
shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same
results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead
lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Sample image:

Click to expand...

Roliaz replied:
What other light sources are there? Possibly, what you are
experiencing is incadescent light factoring into the equation.

Try the same scene without any other lights.

Click to expand...

--
Rick A.
Johnson City, TN

pdqgp · Oct 13, 2002

that image looks as if it was slow sync'd in portrait mode or such.

if you're in just full auto or program mode, it does look off. however, that's what my shots can look light when in slow sync with too much incandesent light influence.

tim

David Abramson said:
I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When
shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am
shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same
results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead
lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Sample image:

Yehuda Katz · Oct 13, 2002

David,

In any case, it is very easy to correct it in PS: I corrected the white point, than reduced the saturation in the yellow and the red chanels.

Yehuda

Ulysses · Oct 13, 2002

jrouss said:
Try a manual white balance, I find much better results that way.

--

Ulysses

Solomon · Oct 13, 2002

Remember too, that the toys in the picture are acurately saturated reds. Toy makers generally use highly saturated colors and even flouresent dyes.
-EL

probepro said:
David Abramson said:

I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When
shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am
shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same
results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead
lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Click to expand...

I don't think there is too much you can do about this. When using
the internal flash, the F707/F717 calculates white balance with a
preflash, regardless of the WB setting. You might try lowering or
increasing the flash output, or using an external flash.

Chuck

--

jrouss · Oct 13, 2002

When using the flash what determines the white balance? A flash sensor? Can someone explain this please, I always thought it was the set whitebalance.
Thanks

Rick Ashford said:
Roliaz said:

David Abramson said:

I've just upgraded to a Sony 717 from my Coolpix 990. When
shooting indoors with flash my reds are way oversaturated. I am
shooting with a flash as a fill but find that I get the same
results in A/S/M/P modes. White balance is set to auto. Overhead
lights are on.

Any suggestions much appreciated.

Sample image:

Click to expand...

Roliaz replied:
What other light sources are there? Possibly, what you are
experiencing is incadescent light factoring into the equation.

Try the same scene without any other lights.

Click to expand...

--
Rick A.
Johnson City, TN

Nashua_Hawk · Oct 13, 2002

excellent PS!

Yehuda Katz said:
David,

In any case, it is very easy to correct it in PS: I corrected the
white point, than reduced the saturation in the yellow and the red
chanels.

Yehuda

--
For Public Pictures Album, go here:
http://www.web-a-photo.com/OPA/
Use 'Nashua_Hawk' in the Visitor box.

probepro · Oct 13, 2002

Solomon said:
Ed Lakin wrote:
Remember too, that the toys in the picture are acurately saturated
reds. Toy makers generally use highly saturated colors and even
flouresent dyes.

Solomon said:

Here's a simple WB adjustment with PS.

Chuck

David Abramson120600 · Oct 14, 2002

That's more in line with the actual reds. What PH tools did you use to make that adjustment? I ussually use curves (thought I am not as good with them as i wish).

probepro said:
probepro said:

Ed Lakin wrote:
Remember too, that the toys in the picture are acurately saturated
reds. Toy makers generally use highly saturated colors and even
flouresent dyes.

Click to expand...

probepro said:

Click to expand...

Here's a simple WB adjustment with PS.

Chuck

David Abramson120600 · Oct 14, 2002

Yehuda,

That's excellent. May I ask what PS tools did you use to correct the white point?

Thanks

Yehuda Katz said:
David,

In any case, it is very easy to correct it in PS: I corrected the
white point, than reduced the saturation in the yellow and the red
chanels.

Yehuda

Yehuda Katz · Oct 14, 2002

David Abramson said:
Yehuda,

That's excellent. May I ask what PS tools did you use to correct
the white point?

David,

In Photoshopuse Image> Adjust> Curves and then the put the white dropper on the whitest spot in the image.

Regards, Yehuda

probepro · Oct 14, 2002

David, if I remember I just reduced the overall color saturation and then desaturated the reds a bit more. I used the white elevator to subjectively set the white point.

Chuck

David Abramson said:
probepro said:

David Abramson120600 said:

Ed Lakin wrote:
Remember too, that the toys in the picture are acurately saturated
reds. Toy makers generally use highly saturated colors and even
flouresent dyes.

Click to expand...

David Abramson120600 said:

Click to expand...

Here's a simple WB adjustment with PS.

Chuck

Click to expand...

dave clark28980 · Oct 14, 2002

I don't have a sample picture to display, but I think the "fixed" picture is a little too green now - though you may have got the red closer to reality. I wouldn't change the red for the whole picture but (in Photoshop Elements) I would use the "replace color" tool and only deasturate the red for the toys. Desaturating the whold picture is okay as long as it doesn't cause a color shift.

Of course all of this is relative to the color balance of anyones' monitor. I haven't calibrated my monitor and could see it different than you.

David Clark

probepro said:
Chuck

David Abramson said:

probepro said:

probepro said:

Ed Lakin wrote:
Remember too, that the toys in the picture are acurately saturated
reds. Toy makers generally use highly saturated colors and even
flouresent dyes.

Click to expand...

probepro said:

Click to expand...

Here's a simple WB adjustment with PS.

Chuck

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

probepro · Oct 14, 2002

dave clark28980 said:
dave clark28980 said:

Original:

Click to expand...

dave clark28980 said:
dave clark28980 said:

Here's a simple WB adjustment with PS.

Click to expand...

dave clark28980 said:
dave clark wrote:
I don't have a sample picture to display, but I think the "fixed"
picture is a little too green now - though you may have got the red
closer to reality. I wouldn't change the red for the whole picture
but (in Photoshop Elements) I would use the "replace color" tool
and only deasturate the red for the toys. Desaturating the whold
picture is okay as long as it doesn't cause a color shift.

Dave, I noticed the green cast too, and have corrected it below. But I don't think this is a case for selective color replacement. The original pic is in total over-saturated and the white balance is too warm. My last attempt is still a bit warm, but given the setting, it seems appropriate.

Chuck

dave clark28980 · Oct 14, 2002

probepro,

Now we're talking. Looks pretty good to me, even with the yellow cast.

I haven't had time to do my own white balance tests with my new F717 but I want to investigate something that has me interested. I have taken some indoor shots under incandescent lighting with the incandescent white balance set, and the results were on the yellow side. But when I looked at the picture on my monitor and looked at the real colors in the room, the camera got it exactly (well, almost) correct.

In the room where I took the pictures white paper really didn't look white. Now, if I manually set white balance against that white paper, would the camera try to make the room look whiter than it really is?

The question I want to know is whether people want a picture to have absolute white whites or have a picture that reflects the actual white as viewed with the eyes. Sometimes a yellow cast picture may actually be true to the reality of what the camera saw. Then the question becomes what are we trying to achieve -- a bright clean picture or a reflection of the real colorcast under those lights?

David Clark

Warm Red Hue with 717 Indoors

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