Reading mode: Light Dark

HS10 vs Canon SX20

Go to last post
CAcreeks

CAcreeks

Forum Pro
Messages
20,529
Solutions
22
Reaction score
3,691
Location
US
Somebody asked me about these two cameras today.

Based on the imaging-resource.com Comparometer, the SX20 really sux for image quality compared to the HS10.

Despite all the naysaying on this forum...
 
And to think that I nearly bought an SX20 and decided to get an HS10 and sent it back so where does that leave me? Actually, it left me with an SX200EXR!
 
The key to the HS10 is that it scores evenly across any area of judgement IMO. Pointing out where it doesn't excell is easy enough with DSLR's and Sony's own processing of the BSI CMOS around. But with the HS10 the build is as good as the lens and as good as the sensor and the processing and the flash and so on.

In the same IR comparisons with the FZ50, the 50 starts out clear leader at low ISO, but surrenders to the HS10 by ISO 800. In between there's the transition which is pretty closely matched actually.

The HS10 is better than the SX20, and the margin surprised me. Ultimately though it is, for me, the fact that I don't use the FZ50 to its maximum image quality that qualifies the HS10's image quality as good enough. For example the FZ50 will surrender to high ISO blotchies long before I notice a loss in detail. The HS10 controls that trait; increasing its range of reasonabl IQ.

Alas the HS10 is not to be now though. Yet another computer requirement has wiped the coffers for some time to come.

--


The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright Leica 35-420mm lens that's this good: http://www.flickr.com/groups/panasonicfz50/pool/ (slideshow always good)
[Tomorrows camera is better and smaller than todays]
 
... reviews from people on this forum or from professional reviewers?

I don't think I've seen any of the latter, and I don't trust reviews from amateurs. Naysaying on this forum often comes from people who don't know how to use a camera, yet blame their failure on the camera.

.
.
rattymouse said:
CAcreeks said:
Despite all the naysaying on this forum...
Click to expand...
and despite the several reviews that recommend against buying the HS10.
Click to expand...
--
Digital imaging has introduced a whole new generation to the joy of photography.
 
Pixelizer said:
... reviews from people on this forum or from professional reviewers?

I don't think I've seen any of the latter, and I don't trust reviews from amateurs. Naysaying on this forum often comes from people who don't know how to use a camera, yet blame their failure on the camera.
Click to expand...
There have been at least two published reviews of the HS10 that concluded with the suggestion to avoid buying the camera. I believe that there is a 3rd review as well but may be mistaken. This is the most recent.

"we'd recommend steering clear of the Fujifilm Finepix HS10 until the company has focused more on quality features rather than things that look attractive on a Best Buy scorecard."

http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/digital-cameras/fujifilm-finepix-hs10/11016.html

I've never (seriously) shot the HS10 but can conclusively say that my review would be very poor based solely on the IQ (from all the images seen here). The camera could get everything else right (a Fuji impossibility) but I'd still pass due to the very poor detail captured (or not) in the images.
 
Pixelizer said:
... reviews from people on this forum or from professional reviewers?
Click to expand...
From reviewers not on this forum. Whether they are professional and how that's defined by you I don't know. Just because someone writes about cameras for a living doesn't mean their reviews are worthy or credible. Someone could not be paid and do a much better review than a professional reviewer. So I think that's a superficial way of looking at things, but these were not their first reviews judging from the long list of reviews on their sites, fwiw.
Pixelizer said:
I don't think I've seen any of the latter,
Click to expand...
I and others have. They've been posted at FTF with words like review and HS10 in the subject.
Pixelizer said:
and I don't trust reviews from amateurs.
Click to expand...
Probably shouldn't "trust" reviews from pros either unless the methods are consistent and valid. Again, pro vs. amateur, that's an invalid dividing line. Credible source vs. non-credible source, valid methods vs. invalid methods...these are the things to look for.

Hope that helps.
Pixelizer said:
Naysaying on this forum often comes from people who don't know how to use a camera, yet blame their failure on the camera.
Click to expand...
Now I really have heard everything.
 
SHood said:
Looks like the SX30 willl be coming this fall with the same sensor as the HS10. Based on the results from Canon's SD4000 the SX30 should have better IQ than the HS10. We'll have to wait to see how the rest of the camera holds up.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=35707484
Click to expand...
Which results from the Canon SD4000? Generally speaking re reviews or something else.

I ask because I handled the SD4000 recently when I really went to handle the SX210IS. I came away impressed with the SD4000, including its macro mode. The pocketability, solid feel, the clipped corner that allows it to slip into a pocket were just a few of the things I liked, but I did not test it.
 
The SD4000 is now available on the IR comparometer. So it can be compared to the HS10 or any other camera.

I comments on the NR of the SD4000 vs the HS10 in the following thread.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=35625356
dotbalm said:
SHood said:
Looks like the SX30 willl be coming this fall with the same sensor as the HS10. Based on the results from Canon's SD4000 the SX30 should have better IQ than the HS10. We'll have to wait to see how the rest of the camera holds up.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1010&message=35707484
Click to expand...
Which results from the Canon SD4000? Generally speaking re reviews or something else.

I ask because I handled the SD4000 recently when I really went to handle the SX210IS. I came away impressed with the SD4000, including its macro mode. The pocketability, solid feel, the clipped corner that allows it to slip into a pocket were just a few of the things I liked, but I did not test it.
Click to expand...
 
SHood said:
Looks like the SX30 willl be coming this fall with the same sensor as the HS10. Based on the results from Canon's SD4000 the SX30 should have better IQ than the HS10. We'll have to wait to see how the rest of the camera holds up.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? The SD4000 produces rather bad results from what I've seen. I don't think it is as good as the Casio FH100, which has a much more ambitious lens.
 
...any one from the so-called "Naysayers" (a new term for "people who value reasoning over hype and nonsense", endemic only to FTF, I guess) claiming that SX10 has a better image quality than HS10.

I do remember "Naysayers" comparing it to other high-end bridges, some years old, and saying it is a step back in IQ, comparing to them. I remember "fanboys" turning blind eye and deaf ear to any of that reasoning.

Original post is the argument that has exactly the same logical value as:
  • "Hey, my Kia Pride is a fantastic quality car - because it is better than Dacia Logan!"
  • "Hey, I am tall at 5 feet, because my uncle is only 4.2".
Seriously people, get your logic straight before entering debates. That you can find something worse than X, doesn't mean that X becomes good, because of that.

Regards,
--

"I reject the reality and substitute my own" - is it your approach to discussion? Surely, not mine.
 
It's down to the bucks in the end, if the versatility holds no appeal. One thing I have no handle on is what the £400 can buy you from the secondhand DSLR market just now?

Bang for your buck the HS10 stands up as a new caamera. The small sensor is new so, as with Sony, the next generation of the sensors use will invite signicant improvements.

--


The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright Leica 35-420mm lens that's this good: http://www.flickr.com/groups/panasonicfz50/pool/ (slideshow always good)
[Tomorrows camera is better and smaller than todays]
 
I agree with you, I strongly suspect that next gen BSI CMOSes will be better than current crop.

..I could only dream of BSI-EXR, it came only recently to me as an idea, but it should both: works, and provide some significant advantage for small sensors.

I guess some patent sharing/buyout would need to happened first. But I would really, really like to see Sony doing that thing!

According to your needs, that you have explained few times, it makes a lot of sense to buy HS10.

It is only me, grumpy picky naysayer, who wants my next camera to be better in every aspect than my current one :). I want to get what I paid for, and for the record I am ready to pay more for that high end bridge that HS10's price.

PS. Gosh, seems like GH1 + 14-140 HD went down to ~€1000 here in Ireland on summer sales... Maybe that will be my future direction, after all...
--

"I reject the reality and substitute my own" - is it your approach to discussion? Surely, not mine.
 
bushi said:
I agree with you, I strongly suspect that next gen BSI CMOSes will be better than current crop.
Click to expand...
Yes of course it will be better. Actually the EXMOR R is suppose to be a 2nd Gen but it was only a "tweak" of the 1st gen sort off. What I hope is for them is to offer a little bigger sensor than what they have now.
bushi said:
..I could only dream of BSI-EXR, it came only recently to me as an idea, but it should both: works, and provide some significant advantage for small sensors.

I guess some patent sharing/buyout would need to happened first. But I would really, really like to see Sony doing that thing!
Click to expand...
I had thought of that too (I think I even mentioned BSI-EXR a few months ago). The rumored next gen sensor for the Sony NEX-7 is suppose to be much faster (2X+) than what's current. If the sensor can take fast enough frame to take just two samples of images then there will be no more need for EXR. Even with the current speed of 10fps+ I think it is very doable especially in good light. Too bad that this is not implemented by Sony at the moment.
bushi said:
It is only me, grumpy picky naysayer, who wants my next camera to be better in every aspect than my current one :). I want to get what I paid for, and for the record I am ready to pay more for that high end bridge that HS10's price.
Click to expand...
I too have been waiting for something to smash the F30/31 sensor to smithereens but unfortunately the wait is not quite over yet. Fingers crossed that the QuantumFilm technology is not just a vaporware or that at least we get to see a much bigger and much improved BSI sensors or for Fuji to come up with SDS (Super Duper Sensor) technology.

...
 
Unfortunately Sony has already said they plan to go smalller and/or more MP with the BSI sensor. Improving IQ is not their priority with BSI.
John Miles said:
It's down to the bucks in the end, if the versatility holds no appeal. One thing I have no handle on is what the £400 can buy you from the secondhand DSLR market just now?

Bang for your buck the HS10 stands up as a new caamera. The small sensor is new so, as with Sony, the next generation of the sensors use will invite signicant improvements.

--


The FZ50: DSLR handling of a bright Leica 35-420mm lens that's this good: http://www.flickr.com/groups/panasonicfz50/pool/ (slideshow always good)
[Tomorrows camera is better and smaller than todays]
Click to expand...
 
bushi said:
...any one from the so-called "Naysayers" (a new term for "people who value reasoning over hype and nonsense", endemic only to FTF, I guess) claiming that SX10 has a better image quality than HS10.
Click to expand...
Why yes, now that you mention it. DPReview is evidently on-board with the naysayers. In its just posted Compact 'Super Zoom' Cameras group test DPR noted that "The Canon Powershot SX20 IS is the successor to the SX10 IS but constitutes only a fairly minor upgrade." and that the SX20 IS shares the top spot, aka "Best of the bunch" for image quality (in both outdoors/daylight and indoors/high ISO) with Panasonic's FZ35 and the HS10 doesn't even lead in the "Middle of the road" group. Actually, the review was fairly kind to the HS10 and to the other cameras in that they were held to fairly low standards, with no comparisons to the much higher image quality that are possible from many other P&S cameras, albeit those with larger sensors and smaller zoom ranges. At least the HS10 had little in common with Fuji's S2500HD which couldn't escape the "Bottom of the class" group in any of the categories. How DPR could write "Overall we can confidently say that none of the nine cameras in this group test are horrible in any way" defies belief once you see the truly abysmal image quality that DPR got from the S2500HD. To say that DPR held the cameras to a fairly low standard is quite an understatement and probably shows that unlike several years ago, their shifting standards are showing a new deference to the marketplace. I suppose that it's possible that I might also feel the presence of big daddy Amazon and weaken the standards a bit for this 'Super Zoom' group test, but it wouldn't have hurt (or would it?) to have showed the much better IQ that could be had from older cameras such as Canon's A650 IS or even several of Fuji's. Vague hints in text are easily glossed over.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Q110superzoomgroup/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top