HELP: S90 v. SD4000 - About to purchase one

Dear forum members,

I read through many posts and it seems I might be starting a tastes great/less filling dicussion here. I apologize if I am, but I need your advice.

I own a Canon 5D. I probably should not, as I am not the photographer I should be to own it. However, on vacations I sometimes bring it, and sometimes do not. I have come to the realization that I need to either a) take a photography class or b) get a good 2nd grade book and learn photo basics using a decent point and shoot.

For now, because I work so much, I think b) is probably the way to go.

My wife and I are taking a trip to North Lake Tahoe on Friday of this week. Then a week later we are going to Maui. Most of the photos I will take will be outdoors. Some will be indoors, but probably only a few and confined to restaurants.

1) Looking back at your careers/education/etc, knowing that I want to use this camera to learn how to use manual mode, etc, which would you recommend that I purchase? The S90 or the SD4000 or dare I ask, something else? I want something small that I can carry around (think pocket size) and that takes great photos.

2) Is there a good basics book where you step through all the different manual modes, guiding you how the photos change as you change different settings?

Thank you in advance. Please keep the feedback positive helpful.

I am curious to see the responses you get for book suggestions as I would like something similar.

I tried the SD4000 for a couple of weeks and ultimately decided on an S90 instead. Since I have posted a fair amount in terms of comparing the two, I will try to summarize briefly.

The size of the SD4000 is excellent if you want a pocektable, point-and-shoot. It delivers outstanding, though not necessarily razor sharp images. The colors are very natural, however not quite as saturated as one typically thinks of for a Canon product. The HD video is very good and the microphones mounted on the front of the camera provide for excellent audio pickup. If you are primarily an Auto-only shooter and place compactness of size and potentially HD video slightly higher in priority than obtaining the best image quality for $350, then the SD4000 is an excellent choice. The SD4000 does provide Aperture and Shutter priority for those times when you want to use it. If you really, really prefer to rely on the camera for indoor shots the SD4000 is hard to beat. One factor that often gets overlooked...the SD4000 is a very fun camera to use. I thought it was a blast really. This is a camera that, based on my personal experience, you can literally put in Auto and point-and-shoot and get good to great to excellent results very consistently indoors and out. I took about 500 test shots mostly on Auto with and only ended up with a couple I would consider unacceptable.

If you do not mind something slightly taller, fatter and heavier than the SD4000, shoot on Auto occasionally or frequently but don't mind going to Program Mode now (when you are learning like I am) to access things such as white balance, exposure compensation and options the S90 is very flexible. Of course, there are the full complement of manual controls on the S90 as well. If you don't care about or don't need HD video and are happy with 640x480 (0.3mp) video then S90 video is adequate. It looks fine on a computer screen. If "pocketable" means perhaps a shirt pocket or cargo pockets on pants/shorts but not necessarily the front pocket of tailored or tight fitting pants the S90 is small enough. If, at the end of the day, getting absolutely the best image you can for $350 and don't mind occasionally having to work a bit harder with the capabilities of the camera to get it, then based on about a half-dozen or so cameras I have tried in this range, the S90 can not be beat. Even though most will advise you, and rightly so, not to use the camera in Auto but rather use Program mode or the other modes I find I get very good results in Auto. Indoors however I would advise using Program mode and manually selecting one of the white balance preset to match the type of actual lighting.

Others will have differing opinions for sure but after having tried them both, while I would agree that the S90 in most cases (but in my experience certainly not all) delivers the better image in terms of crispness, clarity and color saturation the SD4000 is very close and difference are relatively minor. If you view/print at normal size and don't do a lot of extensive cropping then you will likely be happy with the results of either.

The image quality of the SD4000 will likely satisfy its target market, which is perhaps a bit different than the target market for the S90. For landscape shots, which is a big part of my travel photography, the S90 would be the clear winner. The SD4000 can not match the detail the S90 delivers and this seems to be the what others are experiencing. For close shots in a restaurant setting, indoors, and macro shots the SD4000 does an excellent job.

I have posted a few test shots from each kind of side-by-side comparisons. Feel free to view them and form your own assessment. I would say take them both home at the same time and try them together if you can return with no restocking fee and see which one works best for you in the manner in which you want to use it. At least when you have them both in your possession and conduct your own test you will get to experience the strengths and weaknesses of each. My samples were taken in Auto on both cameras.

http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/6201733844/albums

A few more on Flickr with my comments on a few of them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47434316@N02/

Good luck on your choice.

Schaf

schaf said:

If you ... shoot on Auto occasionally or frequently but don't mind going to Program Mode now...

Click to expand...

schaf said:

Even though most will advise you, and rightly so, not to use the camera in Auto but rather use Program mode...

Click to expand...

schaf said:

Indoors however I would advise using Program mode...

Click to expand...

I thought the correct name was Professional mode.

Ciao!

--
Viva la evolución!

thank you for your reply!

i ordered a couple lee frost books. hope they are good. pretty good reviews on amazon.

Natasha-

I am in the process of evaluating both cameras, after purchasing them both. Right now the S-90 is in the lead as long as you use the P or Programed Auto Mode, or perhaps the "Professional Mode as Anfy desires to call it.

The S-90 images, right out of the camera, have more contrast, saturation, and "pop" to them than than the images coming from the SD-4000, which are close, but images that show less contrast and saturation. So, my top choice spot goes to the Canon S-90.

My choice on photography books that has real learning material with lots of hints and photos is: "Digital Cameras Made Really Easy" by Bradley and Sarah Weber. It appears that you have some really excellent photo opportunities this year, so enjoy them, and tell us which camera, you finally select.
--
Sarah Joyce

A book that I found useful when I first picked up my S90 is:
A Short Course in Canon PowerShot S90 Photography : Dennis P. Curtin

I haven't shot with the SD4000, but would (and did) choose the S90. I can say with some certainty, that if it were my wife or daughters - they would choose the sleeker SD4000. In their case, it is form over function. I wanted a pocketable camera I could shoot RAW with, and take with me. I have a Canon 40D and several lens. In May, we went to Maui. My 40D, tripod, big camera bag with lens... all stayed home. The only camera I had was my S90. Same thing when we took our grandaughter to Disneyland earlier in the year. Our 40D stayed back, while the S90 enjoyed a fun trip. Point is -- I think the S90 is a camera you can grow with. As you learn more about photography or decide you want to get into post-processing.. the S90 shoots RAW, and has great functionality.









--
Joe
Old Acct: http://www.dpreview.com/members/5617432530/forums/Messages?Page=19

Thanks everyone.

I ended up purchasing the SD4000 for my wife (she likes auto). I want to learn more about cameras so I bought myself the S90. I also bought a few accessories for the S90 at lensmate.com

got the adapter so i can attach filters, and the handgrip everyone here recommended.

will take some photos using both cameras and post the results so people can see. keeping in mind this is a very green hand taking the pictures.

If you like RAW the only choice is S90.
--
Tom

anchor722 said:

P or Programed Auto Mode, or perhaps the "Professional Mode as Anfy desires to call it.

Click to expand...

Actually is Ken Rockwell who likes to define as "Professional" the P mode, I saw here a bit heated discussion about this (I do not provide the link).

Ciao!

--
Viva la evolución!

90


Some low lght shots.....

I own the S90 and I shoot almost exclusively in "P" mode. I think of "P" mode as "automatic with options " Just one big advantage over automatic is the option to turn flash off ( unless needed ) and not having to worry about it popping up unexpectedly. The S90's low light capabilities in a pocket-size camera is what sold me .

happy vacation & enjoy those new cameras.

An SD4000 for you wife and S90 for you. Nice choice in my book. I think you find having both very, very handy. I know many like an S90 as a smaller more portable alternative to a DSLR. I myself would like and SD4000 as smaller and more portable alternative to the S90.

Having tried both, if I was purchasing one for my wife only, it would be the SD4000 without question. I myself and enjoying the S90 and as you are, looking forward to learning a lot more than I do now. The S90 seems to be an ideal camera for that.

I hope you both have fun with the new cameras!

Schaf

First, great night shots! I have never done night shots before. My first couple of attempts with the S90 this past weekend were ok, but nothing as nice as these. Then again my night shots were by a campfire so the lighting was very different. I am looking forward to learning how to get results like this.

As far as "P" mode. I just HAD to check and the manual calls it Program AE with AE standing for Automatic Exposure. In addition to the controls one has access to and the ability to shoot RAW, I believe one big difference is that in Auto the camera will select the "Scene" and if I am not mistaken it does not select a Scene in Program AE. This can, in my experience, result in quit a difference in how the camera sets the white balance if you take a shot in Auto, then take the same shot in Program AE with everything set to Auto. Sometimes there is no perceptible difference in white balance but sometimes it is quite dramatic and often not what you want when the shot was taken in Auto.

Schaf

On my S90 (purchased around 6/15/30) I can turn off the flash while in Auto.

Schaf

I've read in some posts that the SD4000 has better out of the box and full auto pictures, that the S90 requires some tweaking and manual settings to really get a good pic (especially indoors). I don't want to do a lot of fiddling, nor will we use lots of manual controls (that's what the D80 is for), we want a true point and shoot.

Schaf,

You are right. I was mistaken..... With the S90, The flash can be turned off in auto. However, as I just learned from another thread , an advantage of "P" mode is allowing the flash to be "on" all the time, which can't be done in auto.

As a side note, the S90 makes taking my night photos as easy as set ISO, point, aim and shoot.....

Bruce,

Very true. I have a read a few customer review on other sites where some have complained about the S90 not turning on the flash when in Auto when they thought it should have been. A few of those that had that complained indicated they returned the S90 and that was probably the right thing for them to do.

Of the night shots that you have posted in this thread, are you using the flash on them or not? I have also noticed a slight negative EV adjustment on most of them. I presume you are in Program mode and making the EV adjustment as well? I am still learning so it seems a bit contrary to me that one would want to reduce EV in such low light conditions. Or, is that done to counteract flash usage?

I enjoyed viewing your night shots. I am really interested in learning more about night photography and how to leverage the camera's capability to get the best results. I am a newbie in this area...and really new to all of the capability that the S90 provides.

Schaf

Schaf,

Regarding all of the night shots I've posted in my galleries, ..... all were taken in "P" mode without using flash. The reason I use an exposure comp of

• -1/3 or -2/3 for night shots is to minimize the glare from strong lights......(examples here..... street lights and spotlight) ..... I use the rear wheel for exposure compensation and the front wheel for ISO. I keep exposure compensation set at - 1/3 , even for daylight shots and seldom ( purposely ) go below -2/3 .... I try to keep the ISO below 400, too. Other than that, I just aim , point and shoot...... I've posted mainly night ( low light ) shots in my gallery

for those interested in seeing some S90 low light samples. I'm glad if you found them "inspirational " enough to get started taking some night shots of your own.

I'm sure you can do as well or better with minimum effort.... I give 100 percent credit to the S90..... I just aim, point and shoot

good luck.

Sounds to me that if one is picky about image quality and forgets HD video, the S90 is still the way to go.

I recently bought both cameras, and they are both very nice. I needed a camera that was small and does well in low light clubs. I had several cameras that did not do well for me, including a G7 and a G9.

Both the s90 and the sd4000 work better in low light then my g9, but I see my self liking the s90 as the camera I will take out more often. It seems easier to set the manual controls. Also, a small point, both have 3" screens, but the sd4000 is a more wide angle, so I think it is actually a bit smaller then the s90's screen. Some posters here said that the s90 picts are a bit sharper then the sd4000. I agree, but I am too new of an owner to make absolute statements about the picture quality.

Bottom line, I like my s90 better then my sd4000 although both are great cameras.

Very cool. Thanks for the "low light" gallery and the pointers. I plan to study these and your settings and learn from them and learn from them. Thanks!

Schaf