Reading mode: Light Dark

NEX shines when using Aperture Priority.

Go to last post
J

JanKritzinger

Forum Enthusiast
Messages
351
Reaction score
0
Location
ZA
More than half of the 'Cons' at the end of the NEX review simply do not apply if you shoot in A-mode.

furthermore
Member said:
DPReview said:

Although the most basic exposure settings (shutter speed, aperture and exposure compensation) are easily accessible, even the slightest change to any other shooting parameters requires an interminable sequence of button presses and dial scrolling.
Click to expand...
99% of the time aperture and exposure compensation is all I ever adjust.

On this camera, Auto ISO goes to 1600! for 90% of users, 90% of the time this will be sufficient. And if it isn't, going into the menu won't kill you.

DPReview says this camera is good for "Gadget lovers, Panoramics, Alpha system users wanting a compatible micro system" but I strongly suggest they add Aperture Priority shooters.
 
As I said in the review, aperture and exposure comp are easily accessible so if those are the only things you change then it's not at all bad (The quoted sentence from the conclusion was supposed to make this point clear, I'm sorry if it didn't).

I tend to shoot in Aperture Priority mode and found that I wanted to change ISO, AF-area selection mode and white balance often enough that the camera's UI regularly got in the way of shooting. In fact I didn't realise how often I changed these settings until faced with a camera that made it so frustrating.

With practice you can learn to tolerate it, but when you've just come from a camera with an interactive control panel (and idea that originated with the A700, I believe), tolerating it just doesn't seem good enough. Although the degree to which they're frustrated by it changes, it's interesting how many other reviewers have written at length about the UI - even those who usually say little on the subject.

Richard
 
R Butler said:
I tend to shoot in Aperture Priority mode and found that I wanted to change ISO, AF-area selection mode and white balance often enough that the camera's UI regularly got in the way of shooting. In fact I didn't realise how often I changed these settings until faced with a camera that made it so frustrating.
Click to expand...
The question I have is, is the menu something that would become second nature once you got used to it? I see this sort of con in auto reviews all the time - misplacement of controls. But, in fact, after driving every car I've ever owned for a week or so, I become completely familiar with placement of the controls and it's never been a problem.

Are you sure this wouldn't also be true with the NEX?
--
AEH
http://aehass.zenfolio.com/
Question: What do you do all week?
Answer: Mon to Fri. Nothing, Sat & Sun I rest!
 
Ed at Ridersite said:
The question I have is, is the menu something that would become second nature once you got used to it? I see this sort of con in auto reviews all the time - misplacement of controls. But, in fact, after driving every car I've ever owned for a week or so, I become completely familiar with placement of the controls and it's never been a problem.

Are you sure this wouldn't also be true with the NEX?
--
Click to expand...
This is, of course, a question I asked myself a lot during the writing of the review. By the end of my month living with the camera, I'd got faster at using it, but it still seems unnecessarily long-winded and convoluted.

As I said in my last answer, you can learn to put up with it but, having experienced much better solutions to the same problem (including one developed by KM/Sony), 'tolerable' doesn't feel like high praise. No matter how fast you become and pressing the right combination of buttons, it could be faster by requiring fewer button presses.

To put it another way - my review is much less critical than the views of some people in the office less familiar with it. I think my review is the 'familiarised' version.

Richard - dpreview.com
 
You can watch videos on YouTube of people going in and out of the menu selections, it's not that difficult.

My thing is this - when changing White Balance, ISO, AF, etc. it is because you are moving to another scene or environment to take the shot right? To go into the menu of the NEX cameras and change these settings might take 5-10 seconds more on top of what a button-bedazzled camera would take. You couldn't easily make the changes while in transit to the next scene or environment?

Going from mode to mode and this setting to that setting while sitting on the couch is different than using a camera while you are actually out taking photos.
 
R Butler said:
As I said in the review, aperture and exposure comp are easily accessible so if those are the only things you change then it's not at all bad (The quoted sentence from the conclusion was supposed to make this point clear, I'm sorry if it didn't).

I tend to shoot in Aperture Priority mode and found that I wanted to change ISO, AF-area selection mode and white balance often enough that the camera's UI regularly got in the way of shooting. In fact I didn't realise how often I changed these settings until faced with a camera that made it so frustrating.
Click to expand...
Well, if yo want brain storm any time you have to take a pic, then that is not the camera for you.

it is pretty clear how that camera should be used and is not as you were trying to do.
Sorry!.

Easy, easy....
 
A bit OT, but is the interface described here
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse500/page7.asp

in that camera from 2005 what one would call an interactive control panel, or is it somehow different?
R Butler said:
With practice you can learn to tolerate it, but when you've just come from a camera with an interactive control panel (and idea that originated with the A700, I believe), tolerating it just doesn't seem good enough. Although the degree to which they're frustrated by it changes, it's interesting how many other reviewers have written at length about the UI - even those who usually say little on the subject.

Richard
Click to expand...
--
Just my two öre,
Erik from Sweden
 
danjojo said:
Going from mode to mode and this setting to that setting while sitting on the couch is different than using a camera while you are actually out taking photos.
Click to expand...
My living room is awesome:

3


Seriously, though. I didn't base this review on anything done sitting on my sofa. I went out and shot it.

Richard - dpreview.com
 
Ehrik said:
A bit OT, but is the interface described here
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse500/page7.asp

in that camera from 2005 what one would call an interactive control panel, or is it somehow different?
Click to expand...
I stand corrected.

Ultimately the point I was trying to make is that it's not a new idea and it's one that Sony has used at times (even if it seems they weren't first to do it).

Richard - dpreview.com
 
It's all in good will Richard...I know you did and I respect what you have to say and the info you provide. The point is the extra 5-10 seconds to change a setting or two doesn't matter so much when you are doing it as you change location and the exposure changes are necessary. If we "sit on the couch" and just play with the things it'll seem more stark than it should.

As much as I know you don't like how the cameras are at this stage, it's very much a taste thing. I don't think the menu is too awful at all....definitely not enough to outweigh having top APS-C capability in a cargo pocket-sized package. If I take a NEX-5 to the museum, to the zoo, the beach, or bust it out for some photos of my child's birthday party...how often am I going to change settings and what is the speed required to do so?
 
R Butler said:
As I said in my last answer, you can learn to put up with it but, having experienced much better solutions to the same problem (including one developed by KM/Sony), 'tolerable' doesn't feel like high praise.
Click to expand...
It's not a ringing endorsement !

I spent several years with a Minolta Maxxum 7xi - it had a two-button menu interface to change everything, and while it wasn't unreasonably slow, I ended up avoiding it like the plague and shooting in p&s mode most of the time. I use exp comp more when it's easy to use; I change ISO more when it's easy to change. I'll gladly sacrifice whatever IQ gap there is between m43 and NEX for a camera that's fun & easy to use. I know that sounds like sacrilege to some, but the gap isn't that big, and certainly not big enough that I can say "m43 isn't good enough, but NEX is". (In this thread, someone argued that auto ISO to 1600 is sufficient for most people ... if that's true, then most people don't need the advantages of APS-C over 4/3 !)
  • Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
I advise to put your hands on one before you write it off all the way....it's not that bad.

If you can handle a semi-advanced cell phone you can fly through the NEX within a matter of minutes.
 
danjojo said:
It's all in good will Richard...I know you did and I respect what you have to say and the info you provide. The point is the extra 5-10 seconds to change a setting or two doesn't matter so much when you are doing it as you change location and the exposure changes are necessary. If we "sit on the couch" and just play with the things it'll seem more stark than it should.

As much as I know you don't like how the cameras are at this stage, it's very much a taste thing. I don't think the menu is too awful at all....definitely not enough to outweigh having top APS-C capability in a cargo pocket-sized package. If I take a NEX-5 to the museum, to the zoo, the beach, or bust it out for some photos of my child's birthday party...how often am I going to change settings and what is the speed required to do so?
Click to expand...
I think most people will find it's often enough and that those changes take long enough that it's worth thinking very hard about whether the NEXs' approach is the best one. (Hence my conclusion)

However, nobody could possibly know exactly how you're going to shoot better than you - so, if you've read what the review and are confident that the issues I encountered will be less of a problem for you, then that's great. The review is there to help people make a more informed decisions - it would be impossible for our rating or opinions to suit every possible use-case. We've flagged-up the things we think will be pertinent for the generic 'point-and-shoot' and the generic 'enthusiast photographer' but if you know your needs are different, then I hope you are able to take something useful from the review.

Richard - dpreview.com
 
The problem is that I think you'd need to spend some significant time with one and use it in different ways (if you would normally use your camera in different ways when you shoot different things).

A hands on in a retail store might convince me that the menu isn't that bad if I could get used to where menu items are, and could scroll to them quickly. It wouldn't give me time to discover some of the quirks pointed out by Richard and by MR over at L-L and others.

Of course it's a moot point ... I'd be tempted to try to live with the UI due to other features of the camera, but neither lens interests me in the least. (If the UI were great, I'd be tempted to try & live with the kit zoom & adapted primes but as it is, it's too compromised).
  • Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
danjojo said:
I advise to put your hands on one before you write it off all the way....it's not that bad.

If you can handle a semi-advanced cell phone you can fly through the NEX within a matter of minutes.
Click to expand...
But this is the issue IMO. It is not a cell phone, it is a camera. Why design it to operate like a cell phone which in my experience are hardly the model of user friendliness? I guess it is to appeal to people using cell phones? A strange strategy IMO.

It has been said before and I will say it again here. IMO this camera needs an "expert" mode where it can be controlled as a camera.

--
Rick
 
If I may take your car analogy a step further Ed, how would you feel about that car if the manufacturer put the gas filler cover release switch between the back seats? Yes you could figure it out quickly, and yes, it would only take a few extra seconds, but why would they do that? This is the sense of frustration I have with these nex cameras. So much potential, great image quality, nice size. I was ready to put al;l my m43 gear on the market and switch to Nex. Not now. Why should we have to make so many compromises and excuses? These are mostly (except for the viewfinder)l software issues. Can Sony not find any non biased experienced photographers to get feedback from before finalizing design? Certainly Richard or Simon or Michael over at LL would have been willing for a small fee to give feedback on preliminary designs. Heck, pretty much anybody here on the forum could have at least pointed out the obvious missteps. Frustrating!
--
Just for fun!

Jim
 
I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Richard. I shoot aperture priority mode all the time. But still while trying to capture a scene, I must change iso, white balance, focus area, exposure comp constantly, and while at the same scene. It's seldom something that I only do when walking to a new scene. Sony engineers seem to have a habit of designing dumb things into their cameras without holding out promise of a firmware upgrade. This is a hard thing to say, since they did a good job with the a100, 500, 700 and 900. But their recent entry dslr's continue to raise questions. ChaCha
 
Dennis said:
I know that sounds like sacrilege to some, but the gap isn't that big, and certainly not big enough that I can say "m43 isn't good enough, but NEX is". (In this thread, someone argued that auto ISO to 1600 is sufficient for most people ... if that's true, then most people don't need the advantages of APS-C over 4/3 !)
Click to expand...
Sacrilege indeed.

Larger sensors give you
  • lower crop factor (on m43, that 35mm Leica lens gives you 70mm equivalent focal length. On Nex, it will give you 52mm equivalent focal length, and you'll get sharper images)
  • better dynamic range and less noise due to increased pixel pitch
  • better DOF control. A big aperture isn't enough to get that dreamy background.
the gap when considering any one factor isn't that big, but when you add them all up...

Bigger sensors are always better, especially when you can get it in the same form factor, for the same price. (hint: NEX)

Imagine being able to get a Full frame sensor in an A550 body, at the price of an A550.

Admittedly, just like some people would prefer an aps-c to a FF for the extra 'reach', such cases could exist for m43, especially if blurry backgrounds aren't that important.
 
I'm a little weary of all of this talk that NEX isn't suitable for "advanced users." As far as I'm concerned, I'm an "advanced user," and the only settings that I need to change on a regular basis are the same settings that were relevant 50 years ago: aperture and shutter speed. Heck, with the A900, I often leave ISO at 320 and push in the converter past that (we'll see if that technique works with NEX.)

Although I certainly wouldn't mind a better interface, a good photographer should be able to use these NEX cameras without much issue. I think we all (myself included) tend to get caught up a little bit in wanting to operate a camera like it's a fighter plane with all of its settings a button push away, but, just like in the past, most photographers should be able suitably use a camera by simply controlling exposure. For me, NEX is about small size with DSLR IQ, and, once a standard prime is available, I'll certainly pick one up.

I won't buy a NEX-7 if it's any bigger than the current NEX cameras. It defeats the point, IMO.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top