comparometer

Hi,

just checked the hs10 compared to the DSLR Canon 7D - which is not really a wise choice for comparisons, I'm well aware of that.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

Besides the fact, that of course the 7d has 18 mp, the quality of the hs10 is really ok, don't you think?

And it even has the advantages of a smaller sensor, giving more sharpness from back to front, while the dslr with its larger sensor is really sharp where focussed correctly.
(on some pix they say, its been tested with a preproduction model)

Make up your mind yourself.

P.S. Try cropping a 200 mm standard zoom dslr picture to the degree, a 30 times optical zoom of the hs10 can do. The hs10 will surely win that battle... so heads up!

Hello gilbertmartin,

Very dangerous comparison indeed.
Do you have a concrete atomic prove shelter to hide in?

Regards,

HS10

Hello gilbertmartin,

I think you can use one of these.
It's albanian single person bunker.

Regards,

HS10

Thanks for the link! I am a new HS10 owner and am loving the camera. There can be no doubt that with the smaller sensor the HS10 is going to fall short compared to DSLR's.... but I am impressed by how well it does in comparison on the comparometer. Of course, "how well" is relative to the user... but for someone (me) who's main priority is is to have camera with a long reach, convenience of a single integrated lens, compactness, and afford-ability in achieving all that.... the HS10 is the ticket!

Thanks for the heads up...

gilbertmartin said:

Hi,

just checked the hs10 compared to the DSLR Canon 7D - which is not really a wise choice for comparisons, I'm well aware of that.

Click to expand...

Very unwise indeed!...

gilbertmartin said:

Besides the fact, that of course the 7d has 18 mp, the quality of the hs10 is really ok, don't you think?

Click to expand...

No worries, next HS10 model will have 16mp. Then it'll kick @ss...

gilbertmartin said:

And it even has the advantages of a smaller sensor, giving more sharpness from back to front, while the dslr with its larger sensor is really sharp where focussed correctly.

Click to expand...

That's a definite advantage of small sensors. I hope the next HS10 model has half the size of this sensor as well as double the mps. That would be panacea!...

gilbertmartin said:

Make up your mind yourself.

Click to expand...

I definitely did...

gilbertmartin said:

P.S. Try cropping a 200 mm standard zoom dslr picture to the degree, a 30 times optical zoom of the hs10 can do. The hs10 will surely win that battle...

Click to expand...

No doubt about it. At all!...

ps I am teasing you of course, hoping not to offend you (if you are new to photography). Maybe you can benefit from some books as well as from participating in these forums. When you do, you can revise your posting here and
confirm it or otherwise...

Have fun...
--
Best Regards
Sunshine

Fuji F30, F31, S6500, OLY C4000Z, Canon Film EOS,
Nikon D60, 18-55VR, 18-105VR, 55-200VR, 35/1.8, SB-400

Considering the HS10 has a small sensor and archives 1600lpph without artifacts and 7D has 18MP and does 2600lpph (if you push it 2800lpph), that means 7D has 1,625 more resolution for the same field of view.... a 200mm lens (equivalent of 320mm) cropped to 720mm equivalent has to be reduced 2,25 times in resolution (or enlarged 2.25 times and cropped to 18MP) ... that means HS10 has the edge there because with that 'trick' 7D goes down to 1155lpph ...

However, 18MP is a lot of pixels and i believe lens are the limiter in the shots presented at imaging-resource... ... Also, if you're shooting with something like a 300mm on 7D you easily beat HS10...

That's why is not very sane to compare a bridge with a dslr... with the right glass a dslr is quite impossible to beat...

Now... the convenience and price of the HS10 are quite hard to beat, even with the sluggishness and lack of resolution detail (well... JPEGs mushiness is also a pain) - and by lack of resolution detail i mean, when compared with bridge competition (namely panasonic)

One thing i don't get... people nowdays expect too much of cameras.. the maximum theoretical detail sampling for HS is 1368lpph it has 1600lpph (16.96% improvement) ... not bad i would say... but then again my mobile phone as a 1/6" sensor with a maximum theoric of 768lpph and does 900lpph (17,19% improvement)...

Why people call HS10 output soft? Easy, 7D has a maximum theoretic sampling detail of 1728lpph ... but it does 2600lpph (or even more, and that's more than 50% improvement) ... while samples interpolation and sharpening filters have a part on it, the sensor really does a good job...

Considering the 7D a modern sensor, one would expect the seem similar results with any other sensor, so HS10 has 28% less resolution of detail of what would be expected to a 10MP sensor of a dedicated modern digital camera... oh well... that doesn't mean it is bad, but it just means that we can't expect the same level of detail when compared with a DSLR with 10MP

This were all empirical analysis... I don't mean to say bad of HS10 nor 7D... Both are nice cameras for what they deliver - but price of 7D is a bit higher than what i would expect, specially when compared to 550D ... or is it that 550D is a bit cheaper than expected?

Happy shotting

I live in Gran Canaria, too far away from all the profane troubles of this world...
--
Gilbert

THAT is a very nice, vivid and crisp shot, indeed!
--
Gilbert

Actually, I am a photographer, and I do own the 7d, too. Plus, what makes it "worse" I am even a wedding photographer...

And you know what, most of the pix the customers like best are the vivid quick shots done with the bridge camera. They don't realise it, and expect the big DSLR, but really we got much more valuable output with the bridges.

DSLR has its definate ups - but a lot of downs, sorry to say. That said, I mean when taking photos real quick, no big set up or studio - which is the natural habitat of DSLRs and all that equipment.
--
Gilbert

I know what you mean, and thanx for the detailed figures.

However, in reality I need to shoot RAW with the 7d and do all that converting etc., before I have professional results. When I can do that with the hs10 I will get better results too - since it can do RAW unlike other competitors.

We shoot mostly outside, and there is a lot of sand or salt in the air - which means, we cannot change lenses during the shooting day - or its at least very difficult and dangerous to do so. Besides the costs of good lenses - cause the cheap ones are destroying all those benefits of a large sensor, its a big hastle to handle all that stuff.

I said before, we shoot with both (well a 7d and a FZ50), and for the clients the 7d is impressive etc., some group shots are also a bit more detailed than with the bridge. But all those quick shot details (hands, flours) I can do real quick with the bridge. I can jump around and shoot one quick great shot after the other - which I can't do so versatile with the 7d.

What I'm saying is, both types of cameras have their advantages and disadvantages (don't underestimate those of a DSLR) - but on the long run, bridge will win. In the future, with better lenses, faster processors, EVF, a thousand Euro bridge, fast and with high detail, good EVF will make the race against all that equipment of a DSLR.

--
Gilbert

Thanks . Any camera is just a tool to achieve the best result with the circumstances one is presented with. A vast majority of my photos are outdoor, in somewhat adverse conditions (the sand, salt, and humidity of the beach), taking long range action shots (surfing, kite-boarding, etc.), so the HS10 is a good fit for me. I can't remember the last time I actually printed out a photo, most go up on the web or on a display monitor at home, so the IQ of the HS10 is suitable for me. It may not be a miracle camera, but it IS truly amazing what it CAN do for it's price and size.

Hello,

Are you sure you don't need the bunker?

Regards,

HS10

PS- that photo is straight from the camera, no cropping or PP of any sort- shot with 1.0 firmware.

Hello gilbertmartin,

Once I did a wedding too.
This was the most original picture I could think of.

Regards,

HS10

gilbertmartin said:

I know what you mean, and thanx for the detailed figures.

However, in reality I need to shoot RAW with the 7d and do all that converting etc., before I have professional results. When I can do that with the hs10 I will get better results too - since it can do RAW unlike other competitors.

We shoot mostly outside, and there is a lot of sand or salt in the air - which means, we cannot change lenses during the shooting day - or its at least very difficult and dangerous to do so. Besides the costs of good lenses - cause the cheap ones are destroying all those benefits of a large sensor, its a big hastle to handle all that stuff.

I said before, we shoot with both (well a 7d and a FZ50), and for the clients the 7d is impressive etc., some group shots are also a bit more detailed than with the bridge. But all those quick shot details (hands, flours) I can do real quick with the bridge. I can jump around and shoot one quick great shot after the other - which I can't do so versatile with the 7d.

What I'm saying is, both types of cameras have their advantages and disadvantages (don't underestimate those of a DSLR) - but on the long run, bridge will win. In the future, with better lenses, faster processors, EVF, a thousand Euro bridge, fast and with high detail, good EVF will make the race against all that equipment of a DSLR.

--
Gilbert

Click to expand...

Good to see someone admitting to using a bridge cam for weddings. I have and found it worked pretty good.

I'm still waiting for that really good, fast, ergonomically sensible (big enough to use with gloves) bridge cam to replace my s100fs. Until then I'll keep using it. Tried the HS10 and liked the results but couldn't adapt to the speed, ergonomics and feature set. I can't see using it for weddings due primarily to the speed ..especially in RAW. Lots of great things about it though ...so waiting for the next installment.
jj
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jjlad/sets/

gilbertmartin said:

Actually, I am a photographer, and I do own the 7d, too. Plus, what makes it "worse" I am even a wedding photographer...

Click to expand...

Good for you but from what you said (in your post above) about mps and sensor sizes, I couldn't have known...

gilbertmartin said:

And you know what, most of the pix the customers like best are the vivid quick shots done with the bridge camera. They don't realise it, and expect the big DSLR, but really we got much more valuable output with the bridges.

Click to expand...

If the customers are happy, so much the better for you, nor wearing out your 7D.

gilbertmartin said:

DSLR has its definate ups - but a lot of downs, sorry to say. That said, I mean when taking photos real quick, no big set up or studio - which is the natural habitat of DSLRs and all that equipment.
--

Click to expand...

Can you please elaborate a little more on the dSLR's 'lots of downs' (compared to a bridge cam) when it comes to wedding photography outside the studio? It will be very interesting to hear the professional view...

Thanks

--
Best Regards
Sunshine

Fuji F30, F31, S6500, OLY C4000Z, Canon Film EOS,
Nikon D60, 18-55VR, 18-105VR, 55-200VR, 35/1.8G, 50/1.8D, SB-400

The HS10 carries its weight very well. I sold my pentax dslr equipment and couldn't be happier. Yes, the HS10 isn't perfect but the all in one super sharp zoom is remarkable.

gilbertmartin said:

But all those quick shot details (hands, flours) I can do real quick with the bridge. I can jump around and shoot one quick great shot after the other - which I can't do so versatile with the 7d.

Click to expand...

Sorry....but despite your credentials, I find that's the most absurd thing I have heard to on this forum (for me) to date. You want us to swallow that a camera which takes 5 secs to write a raw file, which has (now common knowledge) only average AF and performance......to be quicker and more versatile to use than a state of the art 7 frame per sec camera with blinding fast AF and performance????

Maybe it's your whole set up that is all wrong and the problem? Think about it further....the HS10 can't do the whole job on it's own, so you have to use and swap between that and a DSLR which is two cameras. So why didn't you buy another 7D body or even a 550D and plonk an 18-200 all-in-one lens on that body?. You are still using two cameras and there is no swapping lenses anymore. And you wouldn't need any more zoom than that on the second body and I bet that the 300-720mm range on your HS10 is nearly redundant at weddings.

You then could have had a 17-55 f2.8 on the 7d body for the serious stuff like group shots ect, and a 18-200 on the 550D for HS10 type of stuff and have IQ, speed and versatility that would be leagues ahead of the HS10. It would take me no more time swapping from 7D to 550D set-up, than it would take me swapping from 7D to the HS10 set-up.

gilbertmartin said:

In the future, with better lenses, faster processors, EVF, a thousand Euro bridge, fast and with high detail, good EVF will make the race against all that equipment of a DSLR.

Click to expand...

In the future?? Outside of the 720mm lens range and price, Fuji has gone back to the 1990's with the rest of the HS10 especially in EVF and performance. Doesn't bode well for the future, eh?

--
Stephen

I'm glad somebody else spoke out too...

--
Best Regards
Sunshine

Fuji F30, F31, S6500, OLY C4000Z, Canon Film EOS,
Nikon D60, 18-55VR, 18-105VR, 55-200VR, 35/1.8G, 50/1.8D, SB-400

A better comparison is with the Canon EOS 50D as they have almost the same resolution.

In the "New Indoor (INB)" samples you'll see that the HS10 remains competitive up to ISO-400

...

gilbertmartin said:

Hi,

just checked the hs10 compared to the DSLR Canon 7D - which is not really a wise choice for comparisons, I'm well aware of that.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

Besides the fact, that of course the 7d has 18 mp, the quality of the hs10 is really ok, don't you think?

And it even has the advantages of a smaller sensor, giving more sharpness from back to front, while the dslr with its larger sensor is really sharp where focussed correctly.
(on some pix they say, its been tested with a preproduction model)

Make up your mind yourself.

P.S. Try cropping a 200 mm standard zoom dslr picture to the degree, a 30 times optical zoom of the hs10 can do. The hs10 will surely win that battle... so heads up!

Click to expand...