Sony NEX5 or GF-1

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

cargo pants?

this camera will allow pocketability only with the pancake and still no really pocketable, as micro third but very very light compared to other dslr.

the camera with the simple kit is simply bigger than oly micro third and gf1, in addition the ergonomics seems pretty out considering the big lens and tiny body.
leaving apart the commands absence.

a very good sensor on a p&s body...better my old fz20 off 5 years ago had far more control.

gf1 and microthird are far better in every aspect apart high iso. but in that case considering the sensor is the same as pentax kx u could easily be better served by the pentax and one of the 7 pancake.

bpalme said:
Well, I thought I had decided on a GF1 and was waiting on the price to come down. Now I'm thinking I may just get the NEX5.

Still going to wait on some real world reviews but maybe someone can talk me back into the GF1.

I'm probably the typical NEX5 target for sony.
Never had a SLR, upgrading from P&S.

Pros and Cons in my eyes.
Pros:

I like the NEX 5 since it could fit in my cargo pants pocket, APC sensor, looks nice, 1080HD movies, possibility of playing around with some other lenses. I like the geared toward newbie stuff like background defocus and the panorama photo. PRICE

Cons:

I've had 5 Sonys 2Camcorders,1 phone, and 2 P&S. Both P&S just plain ole died on me and the phone died too. So I'm not real happy about Sony stuff these days. Concerned the 16mm not as good as the 20mm but need more review input from real folks. I don't want a big lens as this will mostly be a bring everywhere camera.

GF1..
Pros:

Looks nice , proven great pictures, 20mm lens is proven to be great. Established format with adaptors and stuff/accessories. Pop up flash is nice. External controls if I got more into Photography.

Cons: More money, a little bigger, smaller sensor.

I want excellent pictures and it doesn't matter if one slightly edges out the other in a side by side test. i know they will both take nice pictures.

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

rogprov · May 19, 2010

I've looked through the thread but can't see if this link ... http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/NEX5/NEX5A.HTM has been mentioned. If it has I apologise. It's well worth a look.

Roger

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

i use pentax sigma sd14 nikona n d olympus ep1...every camera has its drawbacks an its strenght clearly, the real selling pont of this sony is simply the same sensor shared with pentax kx and nikon d5000.

considering that this camera will be all but portable in a jacket with any lens different from the pancake, and considering how poor is designed, this is a p&s camera POINT with any control any possibilities to improve one skills learning, i think a pentax kx w2ill be a no brainer with a pancake.

The real problem is portablity meaning. People who want a camera to fit one pocket will be really disappointed with everythig apart some canon ixus or nikon coolpix.

with every other camera dslr you need a little bag. these camera are portable comparedto traditional dslr but not pocketable. i can pocket my ep1 with the kit lens but it's not comfortable and in addition photography asks for accessories, spare batterie more cards a flash to fill in etc.
the sony is a better sensor and nothing more from a photography point of view.

the pana and oly are superior in every aspect apart high iso and slighlty less dynamic range.but with no fast primes and no stabilization the high iso advantage will be lost easily.

hooly said:
Agree with most of the points here and felt like adding my tuppence.

For me the most important differences I find between my GF1 and the NEX are the sensor size and ergonomics. The 1080p HD is also a draw for me but not a real factor.

From the images I've seen so far, the sensor gives marginally better low light performance than the GF1... Not so many samples to go on so far and I would want to try it myself before making a conclusion. For someone switching from P&S you will see a dramatic improvement in low light shots with either camera and it would likely be quite a while before you would notice any real world difference between the two.

The increased depth of field control from the APS-C sensor is also a major draw for me, particularly as a full frame D700 shooter, but the current lens line up wouldn't allow me to make much use out of the potential for greater DoF. Again, upgrading from a P&S which gives almost no DoF control it's not a major issue - both cameras would give you a big jump in DoF control.

For me the sensor benefits, although modest, are very attractive, as is the (slighty) enhanced video shooting and I quite like the look of the camera (easy to see that would be a love/hate thing!).

However, from what I have seen so far the dealbreaker would be the ergonomics on the NEX. I am an SLR user of several years so appreciate the ergonomics and menu system of my GF1. I am used to a D700, where everything essential (shooting mode, aperture, shutter, iso, focus mode, exposure mode amongst others) has a dedicated button or dial. This allows use to work the camera with 'finger memory' allowing you to focus on the photography and not the camera. It also saves precious time to get your settings right if you get good 'candid' opportunity.

In my opinion the GF1 does pretty well in this respect. Most of the abovementioned functions are available more or less at the touch of a button and, despite the small size of the camera, are distributed in such a way that is more or less akin to SLR shooting.

From what I have seen of the NEX interface this is far from the case, even ISO is apparently buried in the menu.

This is the one aspect which prevents me from considering selling my GF1 for a (probable) slightly better low light performance and slightly more control of the depth of field.

Again, as a P&S upgrade this isn't necessarily an issue, but might limit your growth if you want to understand how to control the camera. And then of course the other fairly substantial difference is price...

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hooly/

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

Portability?:

bpalme said:
Well, I thought I had decided on a GF1 and was waiting on the price to come down. Now I'm thinking I may just get the NEX5.

Still going to wait on some real world reviews but maybe someone can talk me back into the GF1.

I'm probably the typical NEX5 target for sony.
Never had a SLR, upgrading from P&S.

Pros and Cons in my eyes.
Pros:

I like the NEX 5 since it could fit in my cargo pants pocket, APC sensor, looks nice, 1080HD movies, possibility of playing around with some other lenses. I like the geared toward newbie stuff like background defocus and the panorama photo. PRICE

Cons:

I've had 5 Sonys 2Camcorders,1 phone, and 2 P&S. Both P&S just plain ole died on me and the phone died too. So I'm not real happy about Sony stuff these days. Concerned the 16mm not as good as the 20mm but need more review input from real folks. I don't want a big lens as this will mostly be a bring everywhere camera.

GF1..
Pros:

Looks nice , proven great pictures, 20mm lens is proven to be great. Established format with adaptors and stuff/accessories. Pop up flash is nice. External controls if I got more into Photography.

Cons: More money, a little bigger, smaller sensor.

I want excellent pictures and it doesn't matter if one slightly edges out the other in a side by side test. i know they will both take nice pictures.

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

tiny uncomfortbale body for all but those with little hands?
ff evil with little body and humungous lenses like the zeiss 135 1,8?

that's nonsense. photographer dont need unvisible body with no control and unbvalanced lenses. review will clear the mud about this.

the oplympus micro third is perfectly balanced really comfortbale and easily portable. it weight not a lot and comparing nex with kit and olympus wit kit the last is littler than the first.
a tiny body serves nothing , apart creating lenses with mediocre performance

roweraay said:
The NEX mount is large enough to accomodate a 35mm FF sensor and is in fact larger than the Leica M-mount. That should provide a hint on where Sony intends to take it.

The NEX7 is expected to be announced in September, which will have all the buttons and dials that people are asking for.

I believe the micro-4/3 standard, shot themselves in the foot by going with a larger-than-needed flange-back distance, which in turn will condemn the bodies to be thicker than needed....and clearly thicker than the NEX mount which in turn will come with a FAR larger sensor (upto and including a future Full-frame).

gweedo said:

So, which of these formats will be around and most popular in 5 years? 10 years?

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

gfrensen · May 19, 2010

lets compare the portability

Not that much of a difference I think and comparing both cameras with an realy portable lens:

the difference is for Sony

And what about weight? What camera/lens combinaton is lighter? All these counts.

And don't forget these are the first Sony mirrorless cameras, more will come as more lenses will come

And lens IQ will be different as all pictures on the net are taken with non production lenses (how much difference we have to see...)

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

i have both the camera in the comparision and they are easy to stroll around and superbly built.
sony will weight less but apart the pancake the zoom are superbig.

apart for portability there are ergonomics and controls. sony just to say " we have the tiniest camera in the world" sacrifice everything...any control, no hotshoe, ridicolous tripod socket.

the next model will have far bigger size because there is no free lunch in things.

look at the 24 2,8. maybe they are redesigning the lens. but i wont think they could create a lens with good qualities at this focal at only 290 dollar. it's impossible. the short distance means that even leica will have problems producing a high quality lens in the wide side.

gfrensen said:
lets compare the portability

Not that much of a difference I think and comparing both cameras with an realy portable lens:

the difference is for Sony

And what about weight? What camera/lens combinaton is lighter? All these counts.

And don't forget these are the first Sony mirrorless cameras, more will come as more lenses will come

And lens IQ will be different as all pictures on the net are taken with non production lenses (how much difference we have to see...)

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

gweedo · May 19, 2010

First off, as an MFT fan, I think it is kinda silly to see MFT fans coming in here being defensive and saying absurd things like "oly and pany are better in every way". If you don't acknowledge that Sony has come out with something more than a "me too" product here, you're just not being realistic.

Secondly, I think the claim that this camera is not portable because the body is very small is absurd. Large camera bodies do no make a camera more portable. It makes them less.

That the lenses are dispraportionately large only shows just how small the camera body is... it doesn't make the camera less useful.

We've seen video of someone rolling the camera around with the huge 18-55 lens in one hand, and so obviously this is not a huge, heavy lens attached to a tiny camera that makes it useless..... it a a small, light and compact setup.

Of course, when you have to compare the pancake on a GF1 to the zoom on the NEX to make your portability claims, I think you're pretty much already admitting loss.

The GF1 and Pen cameras are portable. Sony took this challenge and has answered it. The NEX are more pocketable for me-- and I travel all the time.

It is not like people put these cameras in the back pocket of their jeans- GF1 or NEX.

harold1968 · May 19, 2010

well said.

Its clear that the sony sensor is superior, espically in dynamic range and noise. it is also clear that the GF1 has better handling for the amateur shooter. The Nex-5 all on screen menus fill me with a little dread.

both systems have their advantages

I think, for me, the IQ will swing it Sony's way.

One thing is for sure, the lens size is proportionate to the sensor size. Simply by having APS-C, the sony's lenses can't be smaller then the m4/3s.

thats physics, like it or hate it

tbcass · May 19, 2010

You're wasting your time as the NEX5 isn't even out yet. Many of the opinions you will get will be fan boy opinions, that is biased. Even though this is a Sony forum there are GF-1 fanboys here. I'll bet there are NEX5 fanboys in the Pany forums as well. The fanboy wars have started which is the biggest problem with asking a question like this on a forum. My advice is wait a while. Read every review you can since each will have a different and then try them both out!! Only you can make this decision.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

gfrensen · May 19, 2010

jonny1976 said:
i have both the camera in the comparision and they are easy to stroll around and superbly built.

As far as I know is the build quality of the Nex excelent too.
The menu is an other item, but not discussed in the post I was reacting to.

jonny1976 said:
sony will weight less but apart the pancake the zoom are superbig.

The zoom is slightly bigger then the zoom on the Olympus when retracted, when at full operating length the difference is none. So "superbig" is not true

jonny1976 said:
apart for portability there are ergonomics and controls. sony just to say " we have the tiniest camera in the world" sacrifice everything...any control, no hotshoe, ridicolous tripod socket.

All is true, these Nex cameras are not for DSLR users who want full control...

jonny1976 said:
the next model will have far bigger size because there is no free lunch in things.

Agree, but then this still is the smallest and lightest camera in its class.

jonny1976 said:
look at the 24 2,8. maybe they are redesigning the lens. but i wont think they could create a lens with good qualities at this focal at only 290 dollar. it's impossible. the short distance means that even leica will have problems producing a high quality lens in the wide side.

maybe, maybe not we have to see. And more lenses will come out for the Nex, even Zeiss.

jonny1976 said:
gfrensen said:

lets compare the portability

Not that much of a difference I think and comparing both cameras with an realy portable lens:

the difference is for Sony

And what about weight? What camera/lens combinaton is lighter? All these counts.

And don't forget these are the first Sony mirrorless cameras, more will come as more lenses will come

And lens IQ will be different as all pictures on the net are taken with non production lenses (how much difference we have to see...)

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

gfrensen · May 19, 2010

tbcass said:
You're wasting your time as the NEX5 isn't even out yet. Many of the opinions you will get will be fan boy opinions, that is biased. Even though this is a Sony forum there are GF-1 fanboys here. I'll bet there are NEX5 fanboys in the Pany forums as well. The fanboy wars have started which is the biggest problem with asking a question like this on a forum. My advice is wait a while. Read every review you can since each will have a different and then try them both out!! Only you can make this decision.
--

Very well said. There is no camera that suits everybody, that's why there are so many brands and models.... The camera that suit your needs best is the best camera for you! Not everybody wants a big midframe camera, not everybody need the IQ from that one! Some do want the small compact camera, or the slightly bigger mirrorless (mft or APS size)or the big DSLRs...

tbcass said:
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

gweedo said:
First off, as an MFT fan, I think it is kinda silly to see MFT fans coming in here being defensive and saying absurd things like "oly and pany are better in every way". If you don't acknowledge that Sony has come out with something more than a "me too" product here, you're just not being realistic.

Secondly, I think the claim that this camera is not portable because the body is very small is absurd. Large camera bodies do no make a camera more portable. It makes them less.

That the lenses are dispraportionately large only shows just how small the camera body is... it doesn't make the camera less useful.

We've seen video of someone rolling the camera around with the huge 18-55 lens in one hand, and so obviously this is not a huge, heavy lens attached to a tiny camera that makes it useless..... it a a small, light and compact setup.

Of course, when you have to compare the pancake on a GF1 to the zoom on the NEX to make your portability claims, I think you're pretty much already admitting loss.

The GF1 and Pen cameras are portable. Sony took this challenge and has answered it. The NEX are more pocketable for me-- and I travel all the time.

It is not like people put these cameras in the back pocket of their jeans- GF1 or NEX.

i travel 8 months per year to take photos so i give good points on portability.

my point was simply that the sony woth kit zoom is bigger than the oly with the zoom kit. with pancake the contrary but the difference is minimal really minimal.

for some inch, only consider the pancake, sony has simply creative a point and shoot camera without few controls, everything is tin the menu.

a little flash that u have to put on the camera with ridicolous guide number...no hot shoe to use external flash or strobe for creative photography, any electronic viewfinder...i have used the viewfinder on the ep2 and is amazing...ridicolous tripod socket...a distance from sensor to lens that will create a lot of problems in lens creation especially in the wide angle sector..i m eager to see a 18-36 in e mount, it will be huge believe me.

anyway let's waut some serious review, not the advertising review on imaging resource and will judge.

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

gfrensen said:
jonny1976 said:

i have both the camera in the comparision and they are easy to stroll around and superbly built.

Click to expand...

As far as I know is the build quality of the Nex excelent too.
The menu is an other item, but not discussed in the post I was reacting to.

gfrensen said:

sony will weight less but apart the pancake the zoom are superbig.

Click to expand...

The zoom is slightly bigger then the zoom on the Olympus when retracted, when at full operating length the difference is none. So "superbig" is not true

gfrensen said:

apart for portability there are ergonomics and controls. sony just to say " we have the tiniest camera in the world" sacrifice everything...any control, no hotshoe, ridicolous tripod socket.

Click to expand...

All is true, these Nex cameras are not for DSLR users who want full control...

gfrensen said:

the next model will have far bigger size because there is no free lunch in things.

Click to expand...

Agree, but then this still is the smallest and lightest camera in its class.

gfrensen said:

look at the 24 2,8. maybe they are redesigning the lens. but i wont think they could create a lens with good qualities at this focal at only 290 dollar. it's impossible. the short distance means that even leica will have problems producing a high quality lens in the wide side.

Click to expand...

maybe, maybe not we have to see. And more lenses will come out for the Nex, even Zeiss.

gfrensen said:

gfrensen said:

lets compare the portability

Not that much of a difference I think and comparing both cameras with an realy portable lens:

the difference is for Sony

And what about weight? What camera/lens combinaton is lighter? All these counts.

And don't forget these are the first Sony mirrorless cameras, more will come as more lenses will come

And lens IQ will be different as all pictures on the net are taken with non production lenses (how much difference we have to see...)

Click to expand...

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

Click to expand...

whe n u take around the photo the zoom can be closed and so the oly is at least 1 cm shorter than the nex...with pancake the reverse so not a lot of gain from nex if you consider all the missing feature of nex mode.in addition the 18-200 is completely superbig and totally ridicolous on the nex body, while the new announced 14-140 from oly is litghter and shorter and will cover the same focal.

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

gfrensen said:
jonny1976 said:

i have both the camera in the comparision and they are easy to stroll around and superbly built.

Click to expand...

As far as I know is the build quality of the Nex excelent too.
The menu is an other item, but not discussed in the post I was reacting to.

gfrensen said:

sony will weight less but apart the pancake the zoom are superbig.

Click to expand...

The zoom is slightly bigger then the zoom on the Olympus when retracted, when at full operating length the difference is none. So "superbig" is not true

gfrensen said:

apart for portability there are ergonomics and controls. sony just to say " we have the tiniest camera in the world" sacrifice everything...any control, no hotshoe, ridicolous tripod socket.

Click to expand...

All is true, these Nex cameras are not for DSLR users who want full control...

gfrensen said:

the next model will have far bigger size because there is no free lunch in things.

Click to expand...

Agree, but then this still is the smallest and lightest camera in its class.

gfrensen said:

look at the 24 2,8. maybe they are redesigning the lens. but i wont think they could create a lens with good qualities at this focal at only 290 dollar. it's impossible. the short distance means that even leica will have problems producing a high quality lens in the wide side.

Click to expand...

that s the point...the real news here is that sony have the smaller camera. that's simply a marketing strategy but nothing made for photographer.

for have a tiny body, id like to see it with the 18-200 to see how ridicolous it will be, they have sacrificied everything..this is a camera just for amateur and p&s nothing more.

Alrready dpreveiw has said this in the preview. for a useless gain in size they have sacrificed all the controls.

Dennis · May 19, 2010

gweedo said:
Dennis said:

Unfotunately, this is the biggest knock against NEX. I don't find the lenes remotely interesting. The ubiquitous slow 18-55 and a too-wide, too-slow pancake.

Click to expand...

Thus in a low light situation, the 18-55 is effectively an f2.8-f2 when compared to MFT's f4 kit lens.

The m43 kits are 14-45/3.5-4.5 while the Oly is 14-42/3.5-5.6. The makes the Panasonic equivalent to 18-60/4.5-6 (and the Oly a tad slower).

By looking at high ISO performance, you're getting into sensor technology which only pertains to a particular generation of cameras ... the GH1 is better than the others, for instance, and the next generation to come out could be better still.

Those equivalents apply to DOF and light gathering ability.

gweedo said:
They're honest in giving the measurement of light that gets thru, but the sensor is significantly better, and that puts the NEX system effectively ahead in terms of speed. (In other areas, such as sharpness, resolution, etc I can't say.)

That's a camera model consideration, not a system consideration. The GH1's sensor shows what m43 can do (currently) and neither model shows what they can do in the future.

Anyway, I'm accustomed to APS-C from Sony already, and use f/2 and f/1.4 lenses, so my comment on f/2.8 being slow for a carry everywhere lens is based on that. Besides, why choose the camera with the bigger sensor if you're not going to exploit it with fast lenses ?

gweedo said:
I guess if you have to pin me down to a brand, I'm probably a nikon person.

Have you heard anything to indicate if the 17mm EVIL rumors are at all sound ?

gweedo said:
But I will never buy a Canon.

gweedo said:
(Then again, I hadn't seen anything inspiring from Sony in a long time either, until the NEX).

I'm still waffling. The UI sounds awful at the moment, but I'm open to seeing better demos and trying it out. And the lack of a useful pancake prime is a turnoff. But at the same time, there are a lot of things about it that are so appealing. It's definitely a more inspired system than anything anyone's done recently.

Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

no hot shoe
no control
menu for everything
little external underpowered flash
awful tripod socket

no real gain in terms of size against microthird inspite of biger lose in terms of handling and controls

that are simply the truth. for the rest we can wait the review but at the moment those are things that makes this camera simply a point and shoot with a nice sensor.

tbcass said:
You're wasting your time as the NEX5 isn't even out yet. Many of the opinions you will get will be fan boy opinions, that is biased. Even though this is a Sony forum there are GF-1 fanboys here. I'll bet there are NEX5 fanboys in the Pany forums as well. The fanboy wars have started which is the biggest problem with asking a question like this on a forum. My advice is wait a while. Read every review you can since each will have a different and then try them both out!! Only you can make this decision.
--
Tom

Look at the picture, not the pixels

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25301400@N00/

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

headofdestiny · May 19, 2010

In a way, I see NEX as almost a true shooter's camera. Shutterspeed, aperture control, and ISO are the only things I need access to, so, if Sony makes ISO implementation better via firmware, I'm good to go.

BTW, the Panny and NEX kit zoom are pretty similar in length.

jonny1976 · May 19, 2010

thats a point correct.

but firmware can add or correct something..not change completely the architecture of a menu or how a camera is designed. For me sony wanted a camera that worked in auto for p&s shooters and those who dont have a dslr and wont ever buy a dslr. If you read the dpreview preview its clear that also the tester were heavily unsatisfied using the camera in all the mode but the auto mode.

headofdestiny said:
In a way, I see NEX as almost a true shooter's camera. Shutterspeed, aperture control, and ISO are the only things I need access to, so, if Sony makes ISO implementation better via firmware, I'm good to go.

BTW, the Panny and NEX kit zoom are pretty similar in length.

--
http://www.pbase.com/jon1976

NuFonaut · May 19, 2010

Great post, as a fellow traveler i agree (but still won´t buy the camera if there won´t be good lenses.)!

gweedo said:
First off, as an MFT fan, I think it is kinda silly to see MFT fans coming in here being defensive and saying absurd things like "oly and pany are better in every way". If you don't acknowledge that Sony has come out with something more than a "me too" product here, you're just not being realistic.

Secondly, I think the claim that this camera is not portable because the body is very small is absurd. Large camera bodies do no make a camera more portable. It makes them less.

That the lenses are dispraportionately large only shows just how small the camera body is... it doesn't make the camera less useful.

We've seen video of someone rolling the camera around with the huge 18-55 lens in one hand, and so obviously this is not a huge, heavy lens attached to a tiny camera that makes it useless..... it a a small, light and compact setup.

Of course, when you have to compare the pancake on a GF1 to the zoom on the NEX to make your portability claims, I think you're pretty much already admitting loss.

The GF1 and Pen cameras are portable. Sony took this challenge and has answered it. The NEX are more pocketable for me-- and I travel all the time.

It is not like people put these cameras in the back pocket of their jeans- GF1 or NEX.

--
What´s that noise?

From one of the Canon Forums:

'I just came back from my first holiday with the 5D II (I think my wife was there as well). '

Sony NEX5 or GF-1

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