Sony NEX5 or GF-1

Well, I thought I had decided on a GF1 and was waiting on the price to come down. Now I'm thinking I may just get the NEX5.

Still going to wait on some real world reviews but maybe someone can talk me back into the GF1.

I'm probably the typical NEX5 target for sony.
Never had a SLR, upgrading from P&S.

Pros and Cons in my eyes.
Pros:

I like the NEX 5 since it could fit in my cargo pants pocket, APC sensor, looks nice, 1080HD movies, possibility of playing around with some other lenses. I like the geared toward newbie stuff like background defocus and the panorama photo. PRICE

Cons:

I've had 5 Sonys 2Camcorders,1 phone, and 2 P&S. Both P&S just plain ole died on me and the phone died too. So I'm not real happy about Sony stuff these days. Concerned the 16mm not as good as the 20mm but need more review input from real folks. I don't want a big lens as this will mostly be a bring everywhere camera.

GF1..
Pros:

Looks nice , proven great pictures, 20mm lens is proven to be great. Established format with adaptors and stuff/accessories. Pop up flash is nice. External controls if I got more into Photography.

Cons: More money, a little bigger, smaller sensor.

I want excellent pictures and it doesn't matter if one slightly edges out the other in a side by side test. i know they will both take nice pictures.

To me, the choice between them comes down to:

Excellent 20/1.7 (FL and speed are both great for me) versus good 16/2.8 (FL too wide for a carry-everywhere lens, f-stop slower than I'd like)

m43 has option of IBIS bodies with Oly; can pair E-PL1 with 20/1.7

Nex is smaller, has better sensor, (some) compatibility with Alpha lenses, better LCD (resolution and tilt). Larger sensor means kit zoom is a bit better at shallow DOF.

Nex menu system sounds extremely frustrating for anyone not shooting in auto modes, like hitting menu, then remembering "color/brightness" menu to find the ISO option to change ISO. Right now, I change ISO constantly. I don't really want a camera that encourages me to do more auto p&s stuff even if it does auto p&s well.

You might enjoy the auto features of the Nex more than I would, and if the lens' FL works for you, it has a lot of other things going for it.

Right now, I'd opt for the 20/1.7 with a GF1 or Oly body. But we'll see if I hold off on a decision until some more EVIL products are announced. (Like NEX7 and GF2 ?)

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

As an owner of the Panasonic GF1 my advice is to consider the NEX5 if you plan to do any signficant shooting in low light situations such as indoors with available lighting and no flash. That's if you want to buy now but if you can hold off until Photokina there may be other viable options.

I think you should ask this question in M4/3 forum also. To me, Olympus and Pany are way overpriced.

i'd consider the olympus cameras with the panasonic prime, because in-body stabilisation is very valuable.

also gives you the stabilisation option with manual glass...

As you said: both takes nice pictures. So it all comes down to options, and handling.

Try both cameras in the shop and look what camera is best for you in your hands.

Nobody on tis forum (or elsewhere) can tell what camera will work best for you!

What features do you think are important:
High ISO/low light? -> The Nex has better papers
Sweep panorama, auto HDR,etc. -> The Nex has the best papers

Quality of lenses: -> the GF-1 seems to be better (no production model for the Nex, but I don't expect the lenses to change)
Size: if you like small-> Nex
EVF: -> GF-1

so make a list with your wishes and buy the camera you like, not the one that some bloke here say is best....

$900 for a f2.8 macro that is subpar for a macro.

bpalme said:

Well, I thought I had decided on a GF1 and was waiting on the price to come down. Now I'm thinking I may just get the NEX5.

Still going to wait on some real world reviews but maybe someone can talk me back into the GF1.

I'm probably the typical NEX5 target for sony.
Never had a SLR, upgrading from P&S.

Pros and Cons in my eyes.
Pros:

I like the NEX 5 since it could fit in my cargo pants pocket, APC sensor, looks nice, 1080HD movies, possibility of playing around with some other lenses. I like the geared toward newbie stuff like background defocus and the panorama photo. PRICE

Cons:

I've had 5 Sonys 2Camcorders,1 phone, and 2 P&S. Both P&S just plain ole died on me and the phone died too. So I'm not real happy about Sony stuff these days. Concerned the 16mm not as good as the 20mm but need more review input from real folks. I don't want a big lens as this will mostly be a bring everywhere camera.

GF1..
Pros:

Looks nice , proven great pictures, 20mm lens is proven to be great. Established format with adaptors and stuff/accessories. Pop up flash is nice. External controls if I got more into Photography.

Cons: More money, a little bigger, smaller sensor.

I want excellent pictures and it doesn't matter if one slightly edges out the other in a side by side test. i know they will both take nice pictures.

Click to expand...

I bought a GF1 about a month ago, and it is indeed a very nice camera. Impossible to compare it the NEXx since I have not seen or used one.

Don't bother asking in the µ43 forum, and they are all hating the NEX discussions there (and the alpha DSLR people don't like it here!).

I can say that the GF1 menu system is very nice--esp the quick menu which gives quick access to more commonly used parameters without navigating the nested menu system. The GF1 is really well built. I like the 14-45 zoom too.

I hate the "handle" on the GF1, and I am salivating over the NEX handle. The GF1 bascially has a thin raised strip that is metal and slippery.

Tough call. If 1080 video is a must for you, then you have no choice but to go NEX
--
Steve W
weather photos: http://home.comcast.net/~scwest/atmo/

Thanks,
The 1080 is not a must but a bonus and all the little bonuses seem to add up.

Based on your needs, I'd say that either one will be good...

But the GF-1 will have a slightly higher learning curve as it has no simplified menus. What is does however offer is a greater level of instant control, i.e less button presses etc through well placed buttons/controls that allows the photographer to focus on taking pics rather than figure out what menu to go into etc.

The Sony NEX has a different philosophy it seems. Its has a simple mode that describes what you want to do with the image and automates that for you.

Both approaches can achieve good results, your decision I suspect is going to be based on how much you want to get into the technical details of photography.

If you go for the Sony, I'd suggest you pick up a twin lens set, the 18-55 for when you have a bag or want to shoot stabilised video, and the 16mm when you just want to fit everything in your pocket.

For me, as a seasoned hobbyist photographer, I'm getting the NEX5, but that's more because I like the little extra features that Sony has built in like sweep pano which looks to be fun to use It'll be easier to lend the camera to my non-camera enthusiast friends as well : P

NEx-5 is superior to all m4/3s in ISO and dynamic range.
From what I have seen this is significant
dynamic range is biggest problem of m4/3s

The downside of the Sony is the menu system. No buttons and compact handling

you have to decide what you want more: handling = Gf1, IQ+a bit of setting frustration = Sony

ho humm

nothing is ever easy

bpalme said:

Well, I thought I had decided on a GF1 and was waiting on the price to come down. Now I'm thinking I may just get the NEX5.

Still going to wait on some real world reviews but maybe someone can talk me back into the GF1.

I'm probably the typical NEX5 target for sony.
Never had a SLR, upgrading from P&S.

Pros and Cons in my eyes.
Pros:

I like the NEX 5 since it could fit in my cargo pants pocket, APC sensor, looks nice, 1080HD movies, possibility of playing around with some other lenses. I like the geared toward newbie stuff like background defocus and the panorama photo. PRICE

Cons:

I've had 5 Sonys 2Camcorders,1 phone, and 2 P&S. Both P&S just plain ole died on me and the phone died too. So I'm not real happy about Sony stuff these days. Concerned the 16mm not as good as the 20mm but need more review input from real folks. I don't want a big lens as this will mostly be a bring everywhere camera.

GF1..
Pros:

Looks nice , proven great pictures, 20mm lens is proven to be great. Established format with adaptors and stuff/accessories. Pop up flash is nice. External controls if I got more into Photography.

Cons: More money, a little bigger, smaller sensor.

I want excellent pictures and it doesn't matter if one slightly edges out the other in a side by side test. i know they will both take nice pictures.

Click to expand...

I have the GF1 and one of the reasons i bought it was the f1.7 lens which should give a more narrow DOF even though the sony is a larger sensor. Also, I must have feature for me is the aperature control in video mode. GFI has it, Sony Doesn't.

If you prefer most program scene setting and don't wanted to deal too much manual adjustment, then sony nex would be your choice.

If you want full manual and adjustment of white balance then GF1.

However the biggest different would be high iso performance, the 20mm 1.7 for m4/3 has bad outdoor quality, i had 14-20mm and does much better in good light condition vs the 20mm. 20mm is over rating, cause it can't even do continous focus and produce so so outdoor and bright light image, also is kinda hard to manual focus with pancake lens. without c-focus make even worse.

get the medium zoom not pancake at first your lens.

I'm in almost the same situation. I've been a fan of MFT since I first heard about the G1 but have held off on buying. Now I'm getting to the point where I need to buy-- September at the latest-- and having to decide.

The 20mm pancake on MFT is apparently one of the better lenses in existence.

The NEX lenses are interesting, for sure, but it is unclear what their quality will be.

For me, I've decided that camera bodies come and go. In 2 years there will be better bodies from Olympus, Panasonic and Sony. The question (since I have no legacy glass to adapt and manual focus lenses will adapt to either system) is which platform to choose.

The MFT platform has two companies behind it and quite a few lenses. The sony platform has a company whose investment in the digital photography arena have been significant, but doesn't seem to be getting the traction they should be.

So, which of these formats will be around and most popular in 5 years? 10 years?

Thats what I really want to know.

Agree with most of the points here and felt like adding my tuppence.

For me the most important differences I find between my GF1 and the NEX are the sensor size and ergonomics. The 1080p HD is also a draw for me but not a real factor.

From the images I've seen so far, the sensor gives marginally better low light performance than the GF1... Not so many samples to go on so far and I would want to try it myself before making a conclusion. For someone switching from P&S you will see a dramatic improvement in low light shots with either camera and it would likely be quite a while before you would notice any real world difference between the two.

The increased depth of field control from the APS-C sensor is also a major draw for me, particularly as a full frame D700 shooter, but the current lens line up wouldn't allow me to make much use out of the potential for greater DoF. Again, upgrading from a P&S which gives almost no DoF control it's not a major issue - both cameras would give you a big jump in DoF control.

For me the sensor benefits, although modest, are very attractive, as is the (slighty) enhanced video shooting and I quite like the look of the camera (easy to see that would be a love/hate thing!).

However, from what I have seen so far the dealbreaker would be the ergonomics on the NEX. I am an SLR user of several years so appreciate the ergonomics and menu system of my GF1. I am used to a D700, where everything essential (shooting mode, aperture, shutter, iso, focus mode, exposure mode amongst others) has a dedicated button or dial. This allows use to work the camera with 'finger memory' allowing you to focus on the photography and not the camera. It also saves precious time to get your settings right if you get good 'candid' opportunity.

In my opinion the GF1 does pretty well in this respect. Most of the abovementioned functions are available more or less at the touch of a button and, despite the small size of the camera, are distributed in such a way that is more or less akin to SLR shooting.

From what I have seen of the NEX interface this is far from the case, even ISO is apparently buried in the menu.

This is the one aspect which prevents me from considering selling my GF1 for a (probable) slightly better low light performance and slightly more control of the depth of field.

Again, as a P&S upgrade this isn't necessarily an issue, but might limit your growth if you want to understand how to control the camera. And then of course the other fairly substantial difference is price...

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hooly/

The 20mm can do continous autofocus. However, I dont use this anymore because it is annoying to have the camera always trying to refocus during a shot. Much better to focus first then, start shooting.

For outdoor with the 20mm, try adjusting the aperature and/or the exposure.

No need to manual focus with the 20mm, just press the button halfway down and it will auto focus.

Also, from what i hear, there is not way to change the NEX autofocus points. GF1 has many option including in video.

mugupo said:

20mm is over rating, cause it can't even do continous focus and produce so so outdoor and bright light image, also is kinda hard to manual focus with pancake lens.

get the medium zoom not pancake at first your lens.

Click to expand...

The NEX mount is large enough to accomodate a 35mm FF sensor and is in fact larger than the Leica M-mount. That should provide a hint on where Sony intends to take it.

The NEX7 is expected to be announced in September, which will have all the buttons and dials that people are asking for.

I believe the micro-4/3 standard, shot themselves in the foot by going with a larger-than-needed flange-back distance, which in turn will condemn the bodies to be thicker than needed....and clearly thicker than the NEX mount which in turn will come with a FAR larger sensor (upto and including a future Full-frame).

gweedo said:

So, which of these formats will be around and most popular in 5 years? 10 years?

Click to expand...

cws2882 said:

The 20mm can do continous autofocus. However, I dont use this anymore because it is annoying to have the camera always trying to refocus during a shot. Much better to focus first then, start shooting.

Click to expand...

20mm has no c-focus, it has s-focus or manual. single focus is not the same as contrinous, single focus is the same as those nikon and canon, just the noise is not as loud.

cws2882 said:

For outdoor with the 20mm, try adjusting the aperature and/or the exposure.

No need to manual focus with the 20mm, just press the button halfway down and it will auto focus.

Also, from what i hear, there is not way to change the NEX autofocus points. GF1 has many option including in video.

mugupo said:

20mm is over rating, cause it can't even do continous focus and produce so so outdoor and bright light image, also is kinda hard to manual focus with pancake lens.

get the medium zoom not pancake at first your lens.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

gweedo said:

I'm in almost the same situation. I've been a fan of MFT since I first heard about the G1 but have held off on buying. Now I'm getting to the point where I need to buy-- September at the latest-- and having to decide.

Click to expand...

I have until November Technically, I can wait indefinitely, but will most likely choose something before November ... I'm just not totally sold on any option yet, so may hold off for fall photo shows.

gweedo said:

The 20mm pancake on MFT is apparently one of the better lenses in existence.

Click to expand...

Well, it's good, but there are many good lenses. (It's helped by automatic lens corrections, too). The FL and speed are about perfect for me for a carry-everywere lens, though.

gweedo said:

The NEX lenses are interesting, for sure, but it is unclear what their quality will be.

Click to expand...

Unfotunately, this is the biggest knock against NEX. I don't find the lenes remotely interesting. The ubiquitous slow 18-55 and a too-wide, too-slow pancake.

I'll probably make a point of finding NEX-5 somewhere in upcoming months to check it out in person. The camera/zoom combo looks small in some hands in various sample videos, small enough to consider. And compatibility with Alpha lenses is a small benefit (I can see certain uses for it, but long term would want a small kit of only native E-mount lenses for use with it).

gweedo said:

The MFT platform has two companies behind it and quite a few lenses.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the two companies are too busy competing with each other to broaden the lineup. There's no fast portrait prime, but 4 variations on the kit lens ! You can choose 7-14 or 9-18 ... Panasonic has the 45/2.8 macro, so Oly is going to be doing a macro.

Panasonic seems committed to in-lens stabilization; Oly to IBIS, but so far Oly hasn't done a higher end body. Sony, meanwhile, is rumored to do a NEX-7 that looks like a GH1, possibly with IBIS. Just a rumor, but a rumor from the same source as NEX-3, 5 rumors, and we should know by the fall photo shows (maybe too late for you though). And Panasonic is fickle ... they dabbled in 4/3 and are now firmly on m43 ... but eoshd.com talks about Panasonic rumors for a "super m43" that uses an even shorter registration distance, so yet another mount and more lenses. And 4/3 itself is respectable, but seriously lacking in fast primes after years of development. So while m43 is more mature than NEX at the moment, and I don't have huge hopes for Sony satisfying enthusiasts and pros with NEX, I'm not entirely sold on Panasonic/Oly either.

gweedo said:

So, which of these formats will be around and most popular in 5 years? 10 years?

Click to expand...

Something from Canon or Nikon that has yet to be announced

• Dennis

--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com

Dennis said:

Unfotunately, this is the biggest knock against NEX. I don't find the lenes remotely interesting. The ubiquitous slow 18-55 and a too-wide, too-slow pancake.

Click to expand...

I think you're making a mistake here. You're comparing across brands, right? Well, the sensor in the NEX is between one and two stops more sensitive at a given noise level than the ones in Micro-Four-Thirds.

Thus in a low light situation, the 18-55 is effectively an f2.8-f2 when compared to MFT's f4 kit lens.

They're honest in giving the measurement of light that gets thru, but the sensor is significantly better, and that puts the NEX system effectively ahead in terms of speed. (In other areas, such as sharpness, resolution, etc I can't say.)

Dennis said:

Panasonic seems committed to in-lens stabilization; Oly to IBIS, but so far Oly hasn't done a higher end body. Sony, meanwhile, is rumored to do a NEX-7 that looks like a GH1, possibly with IBIS.

Click to expand...

I would prefer IBIS, even if it did make the NEX a bit bigger. But the NEX-7 s rumored to be of a "DSLR design". I really loathe the idea of a mirrorless camera with a pentaprism bump.

I'm not sure why the companies seem to prefer lens based stabilization-- I think it may be because they can provide more stops of effectiveness for the stabilization.

At any rate the Olympus IBIS does not operate in video mode, and so it is nearly useless to me.

Dennis said:

Dennis said:

So, which of these formats will be around and most popular in 5 years? 10 years?

Click to expand...

Something from Canon or Nikon that has yet to be announced

Click to expand...

I guess if you have to pin me down to a brand, I'm probably a nikon person. I've owned 3 or 4 nikons over the years, one Sony and no panasonics.... but spent the last year expecting to get the follow on to the GH2, as I had decided the GH1 as THE CAMERA OF MY DREAMS. In February, I had zero interest in sony, and expected the NEX to be half assed like the Samsung cameras.

But I will never buy a Canon. Such a half assed video mode on the Canons but they hire vincent laforte to make a movie with $50,000 in lenses and it looks good and all these people start raving about how greast canons are and how everything else sucks and that canons are "professional" while everything else is crap--- using the most ignorant yet strident terms. It has turned me off of the brand completely. In my mind, "Canon" means "dbag ahole"

But I think that technology does shift and the leaders in some decades are not the leaders in the next decades. I think that Canon and Nikon will eventually do mirrorless designs, but I haven't seen anything inspired out of them in a long time so I'm not holding much stock that they will be good. (Then again, I hadn't seen anything inspiring from Sony in a long time either, until the NEX).