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Sue Nikon

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Gabriele Sartori said:
This is what Nikon needs. They haven’t been in US enough probably
but they like the US money these B@$t@rd.
Click to expand...
You seem mad about something, but I fail to see exactly what it is that Nikon has done so wrong. All this "excitement" seems to be triggered by the fact that you can't do the firmware upgrade yourself. Frankly, from Nikon's viewpoint I don't see either possibility as being better than the other:
  • Nikon does it and everyone is without their camera for a short period of time.
  • The customers all do it and that means downloads and running updaters and following instructions precisely and STILL some percentage of folk will trash their cameras and be without them for a long period of time.
Either way, Nikon's support burden is going to increase substantially. In the second scenario, it's even possible that failed upgrades would cause those of us with real camera failures to suffer very long repair times.

While I personally would have chosen the user-update scenario if I were running Nikon, I'd also be holding my breath and rubbing my favorite talisman for luck.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D100
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com
 
Gabriele Sartori said:
Nikon need a class action LS.
Click to expand...
Gabriele,

Most of yor posts are thoughful, and interesting and well thought out. This one, might have been sent more with anger and frustration than thought.

It seems to be the American way to Sue everybody, but in this case I don't see the win.

You and many others wanted a firmware update. they gave you 2, and offered to pay for the shipping.

While it would be nice if it was conveniently available to download and flash, there may be other reasons why the service needs to be done in house.

I don't agree this will do anything other than make some lawyers money. I hate that idea more than anything else.

DBK
 
Gabriele Sartori said:
Nikon need a class action LS. Last week I got a letter from
Mercedes Benz. My wife car is the SUV ML320.

A customer of Mercedes didn’t trust the flex service provided by
Mercedes, where basically they never let you do the service since
it should be free. He decided to go at Wal-Mart, bought some
regular oil and changed the oil himself.

After a while the car starts to leak eventually he had to change
all the pistons. He sued Mercedes and now Mercedes is extending the
warranty from 4 years to 10 years and the mileage from 50000 to
150000 as a part of the settlement.

This is what Nikon needs. They haven’t been in US enough probably
but they like the US money these B@$t@rd.

I’ve the name of this legal firm that did the entire lawsuit to
Mercedes and made a few million $ out of it. I think they will be
happy to know about Nikon, so if we put the petition on the web
site and we write to this “nice people” they may take care of our
problem and I think will be contingency base no cost for us
consumer.

What do you think? I think is time to do it.

--
Regards
Gabriele Sartori
Click to expand...
Gabriele,

This is pathetic. You don't get your way for a downloadable upgrade and you sue? Are you damaged? Then you want our help to pay the legal costs? We aren't damaged by this.

FIrst off, If anyone is doing professional work, and sending in their one camera is grounds for cancelling jobs, then I have to say that they are not prepared for their work. Having a backup source (by any means) is a necessity. What would you tell your client should you drop your camera at a job (a wedding!?) - time to cancel the job for a few weeks until I get my camera back, they aren't going to wait.

Your mercedes story is a sad one - and I hope it's been resolved to your benefit. But it was not the fault of Mercedes that one fellow did not follow his mainenance instructions or not know how to do an oil change with the correct oil. It's not like you changed the ram in your camera yourself and it started leaking megapixels every time you did a bulb exposure... this is a camera not a car.

This is either not something that Nikon wants users to have access to at this point, or there is more to the upgrade than simply flashing the bios. Do you know which? No, you don't.

Don't jump the gun and scream "SUE THEM," unless you have all the facts. Your message seems to be fueled by anger, not the willingness to help achieve what we all want (downloadable firmware.) You certainly don't have all the facts, you are basing your "suit" on assumptions. This talk sums up what's wrong with this country's people. I hate to think that I have to second guess helping someone out in an accident or some misfortunate event because should I make a mistake, I could be sued. Not worth the aggrivation... is it?

Now show me a petition to sign and I'll sign it. Want me to send a letter, I'll send one. Want me to call someone, I'll call them. But I'm not going to throw burning spears and arrows at the company who make the equipment I help make my living on. Let's do this the right way.

--
Regards,
Joe H.

PPA
---------------------------------------
http://www.biggerboatstudios.com

(Sarcasm Included - some assembly required.)
 
I don't generalize and I dont want to offend anyone.

But this lawsuit thing is typical for America and part of the American culture. Nobody can deny that.

Here in Austria nobody never ever in their wildest dreams would have the idea to suit Nikon coz they brought out a new firmware version that is not self installable by a user.

Walter
 
10 minute drive, 5 minute operation and a chat with a techie from
Nikon. What do you need more....

Small countries can have advantages sometimes. If you sue them,
could you ask a mirrorlockup function which really is a mirror
lockup function btw? I just asked the Nikon techie to
escalate this, but I didn't go in with my lawyer. Perhaps my
mistake. NOT.
 
thanx for the compliment about the site, took me some time to learn javascript and produce this thing!

Luckely also non-americans (not meant as a generalisation either..) do understand that GWB is not the USA and that the "real" USA will be there also after he has been succeeded by a new president... and he will be, if he does not focus on natioanal and economic issues in due time is my impression...But believe me that he has made a lot of peolple scared over here... And I see a lot of the goodwill america had earned over the last century here in europe is eroding. That is bad for us all... We are all terribely interdependent: economicwise, financially and with our planets environment that we all share... but also culturally.. I am not a green lefstist activist, far from that, but for the first i realised that very important notions and our cooporations are in jeopardy and we ,the europeans, are to weak to change the course of history in a more moderate direction. GWB is more or less acting as the big bully in the class... as long as he is very strong he can do as he pleases but do the others like him? what will the school do,or the others if they see any little way of getting back on the bully? I understand that the metaphore is not the strongest ever, but just think about it.... And what happens if the US economy turns worse? (see my point about the influx of foreign money to keep the US economy going and going)

Just between you and me: I do respect the very special position of the US in the world, even if that has some negative sides aswell. And the Us has, untill the last couple of years, acted very wisely indeed to establish worldwide institutions, prosperity, and even a high amount of stability for decades. I also understand that US pride has been hurt very deeply at 9-11-01 and that it wants to eradicate the evil that was brougth upon them. But by going totally unilateraly they evoke more problems to my humble opinion then they will solve.. but what made me very angry indeed was this "the hague act" were it is law now that the US is to invade my country when a amarican is brougth to the international court here.... the very idea of invading this country and actually to put it down in a law, made me realise that, whatever i think about the position about the court anyway which i think is good and the states a little paranoid about -or very principled that no other law then amarican law is applicable for americans, I for the first time in my life did not see america as our natural bonded brothers anymore but just as players that can change alliances if nessecary: My enamies enamy is my friend that kind of thing... I found this teribbely sobering.... it was as if I lost a friend.... hope you get my drift here...

JW
Moon said:
No matter what GWB says, we don't always 'speak with one voice' ;-)

BTW - Your gallery of photos is fantastic!
Jan Willem said:
jw
Moon said:
Moon said:
what the heck only japanese pensionholders will pay the
price. (which is a very limited view IMHO, it is these same
japanese and european - future- pensioners that are bringing in the
money for all this zillions of debt the americans are building
up....)
Click to expand...
Wow! Talk about your blanket, nonsense statements! Sounds more like
prejudice to me...
Click to expand...
--
greatings to you all!
some of my photo's at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
greatings to you all!
some of my photo's at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars
 
Thom Hogan,

I recall this anecdote, correctly I hope.

A short time after Lexus brought its first model into the U.S., there was a minor problem, only on a very few cars, a problem in which Lexus could have easily dismissed. Instead, Lexus took the opportunity to make individual arrangements with each owner to do the repair either on site, or at their convenience at a dealership.

How many loyal Lexus owners were created by that one act? We will probably never know, but this anecdote does tell volumes of how a company can treat its customers.

I don't own the D100, and I don't see a major problem in sending the camera back to Nikon. I just find that Nikon could have really set themselves apart from the competition by making an extra effort to accommodate their customers.

If I was running this, I would schedule 2-3 day visits to major cities with the express purpose of while-you-wait upgrades. This would probably cover a majority of the users, and could even be used as a marketing campaign.

my $.02

tom
 
Gabriele Sartori said:
Nikon need a class action LS. Last week I got a letter from
Mercedes Benz. My wife car is the SUV ML320.

A customer of Mercedes didn’t trust the flex service provided by
Mercedes, where basically they never let you do the service since
it should be free. He decided to go at Wal-Mart, bought some
regular oil and changed the oil himself.

After a while the car starts to leak eventually he had to change
all the pistons. He sued Mercedes and now Mercedes is extending the
warranty from 4 years to 10 years and the mileage from 50000 to
150000 as a part of the settlement.

This is what Nikon needs. They haven’t been in US enough probably
but they like the US money these B@$t@rd.

I’ve the name of this legal firm that did the entire lawsuit to
Mercedes and made a few million $ out of it. I think they will be
happy to know about Nikon, so if we put the petition on the web
site and we write to this “nice people” they may take care of our
problem and I think will be contingency base no cost for us
consumer.

What do you think? I think is time to do it.

--
Regards
Gabriele Sartori
Click to expand...
--

A few lawsuits and that will be the end of Nikon's firmware updates. No one promised a perfect camera.

Greg Gebhardt D1, D1x, CP5000 & CP5700
Jacksonville, Florida
 
I'm amazed at some of these posts. I want D1xx user firmware upgrades as much as everyone here and have written a letter to Nikon, but this talk is a little naive.

Nikon is in business for one reason - to make money for shareholders. Designing and developing tech products that actually make money is far more difficult than it seems. It is easy to fault marketing at Nikon for making a decision that hurts D1 owners (e.g. not allowing it to be upgraded to a D1H level of function), but they probably decided they could make more money by coming out with a new model and would not loose many customers. There is always a tradeoff between customer satisfaction and maximizing profits and the answer never satisfies everyone.

No product is going to be perfect and I applaud Nikon for releasing a firmware upgrade so soon after releasing the D100. The D100 has been selling well and works fine as is, with some minor quirks.

Now if Nikon would only let us upgrade the firmware ourselves...

Rich H
 
Gabriele Sartori said:
Nikon need a class action LS. Last week I got a letter from
Mercedes Benz. My wife car is the SUV ML320.
Click to expand...
I'd like to do the upgrade myself, too.

But what's wrong with free service on your precious SUV? Buying an expensive car and having to go to Walmart for an oil change to save a buck.

Since you have the money for the ML320, I'm sure you could use same day FedEx to get your camera fixed.

Somebody should sue the lawyers for picking up those ridiculous lawsuits.
 
Very eloquently put! There's nothing I like more than rational, intelligent conversation. I think you and I are alike in many ways. I'm not ashamed to say that I did not vote for GWB. I exercised my right to choose the least of the 2 or 3 evils to represent my way of thinking. That does not make me 'anti-American' or 'un-patriotic'. It just means there are things to which I disagree.

I am far from a leftist or a pacifist as well. I hate to think that one American (GWB) has the power to 'scare' any of our brother nations. I like to think that our democratic system of dispersion of power will kick in and keep people at bay. Does not seem likely right now :-( I also hate the idea of acting unilaterally in affairs that effect the world as a whole.

I've been to Europe a few times. 'To a man', I have never been treated with anything but respect and friendliness. I always go out of my way to do the same. It's a shame that politics has to come between people when in reality we're all really the same in most regards.

I do get the drift of everything you said (wrote). The failing economy, "the Hague act", the big bully, unilateralism, etc. Being an American is a little nerve-wracking right now. Still, I have a firm belief that things will change for the better. There are waaaaay too many good, intelligent, level-headed people here to let it go completely to sh1t.

And so on...

Hey, I got an idea, let's just sue Bin Laden, Hussein, the entire Al Queda, GWB, Tony Blair and the French ;-)
Jan Willem said:
Luckely also non-americans (not meant as a generalisation either..)
do understand that GWB is not the USA and that the "real" USA will
be there also after he has been succeeded by a new president... and
he will be, if he does not focus on natioanal and economic issues
in due time is my impression...But believe me that he has made a
lot of peolple scared over here... And I see a lot of the goodwill
america had earned over the last century here in europe is eroding.
That is bad for us all... We are all terribely interdependent:
economicwise, financially and with our planets environment that we
all share... but also culturally.. I am not a green lefstist
activist, far from that, but for the first i realised that very
important notions and our cooporations are in jeopardy and we ,the
europeans, are to weak to change the course of history in a more
moderate direction. GWB is more or less acting as the big bully in
the class... as long as he is very strong he can do as he pleases
but do the others like him? what will the school do,or the others
if they see any little way of getting back on the bully? I
understand that the metaphore is not the strongest ever, but just
think about it.... And what happens if the US economy turns worse?
(see my point about the influx of foreign money to keep the US
economy going and going)

Just between you and me: I do respect the very special position of
the US in the world, even if that has some negative sides aswell.
And the Us has, untill the last couple of years, acted very wisely
indeed to establish worldwide institutions, prosperity, and even a
high amount of stability for decades. I also understand that US
pride has been hurt very deeply at 9-11-01 and that it wants to
eradicate the evil that was brougth upon them. But by going totally
unilateraly they evoke more problems to my humble opinion then they
will solve.. but what made me very angry indeed was this "the hague
act" were it is law now that the US is to invade my country when a
amarican is brougth to the international court here.... the very
idea of invading this country and actually to put it down in a law,
made me realise that, whatever i think about the position about the
court anyway which i think is good and the states a little paranoid
about -or very principled that no other law then amarican law is
applicable for americans, I for the first time in my life did not
see america as our natural bonded brothers anymore but just as
players that can change alliances if nessecary: My enamies enamy is
my friend that kind of thing... I found this teribbely sobering....
it was as if I lost a friend.... hope you get my drift here...

JW
Moon said:
No matter what GWB says, we don't always 'speak with one voice' ;-)

BTW - Your gallery of photos is fantastic!
Jan Willem said:
jw
Moon said:
Jan Willem Mars said:
what the heck only japanese pensionholders will pay the
price. (which is a very limited view IMHO, it is these same
japanese and european - future- pensioners that are bringing in the
money for all this zillions of debt the americans are building
up....)
Click to expand...
Wow! Talk about your blanket, nonsense statements! Sounds more like
prejudice to me...
Click to expand...
--
greatings to you all!
some of my photo's at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
greatings to you all!
some of my photo's at:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jwmars
Click to expand...
 
Anthony Medici said:
--
Tony

http://homepage.mac.com/a5m http://www.pbase.com/a5m
Schurki said:
You Americans, always want to file a lawsuit, for every little
fart, I cannot understand this.....

Walter
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I'm American too and I can tell you that most people here are not lawsuit happy. It only takes a few greedy morons to ruin things for everybody (and create a stereotype) by abusing the system.

BTW: This is Gabriel's absurd idea. While he does live in the USA and is a citizen, I don't think he was born here. So your generalization is flawed. Not that it matters anyway. There are good and bad people throughout the world. Some people just like to believe it's always the other guys fault.

--
Ràvén
 
Schurki said:
I don't generalize and I dont want to offend anyone.

But this lawsuit thing is typical for America and part of the
American culture. Nobody can deny that.

Here in Austria nobody never ever in their wildest dreams would
have the idea to suit Nikon coz they brought out a new firmware
version that is not self installable by a user.

Walter
Click to expand...
"You Americans, always want to file a lawsuit, for every little fart, I cannot understand this....."

I don't see how you can say that is not a generalization. As far as it being part of American culture, it has more to do with the system of laws (designed around equal rights and freedom of speach) than the people. Of course the system is not perfect (no system is) and that leaves it open to abuse.

However, I can assure you that 99% of Americans are annoyed when we hear about some idiot that spilled hot coffee in her lap and sued for millions of dollars. And there are many other similiar stories that make it around the world's news headlines. Americans think these lawsuits are just as stupid as the rest of the world does.

Right now in China there is a rather opposite situation. There is so much oppression and censorship that the people of China could not even access google.com for awhile. I don't know their specific laws, but I'm sure they are very limited in many of their civil rights. You don't see me saying:

"You Chinese, never want to use the Internet, read interesting books, or talk about your government. I cannot understand this....."

--
Ràvén
 
spacer said:
I have the feeling that the ones who just think "sue" are the same who are unhappy in every restaurant and end up getting the spit in their food from the waiters as a fix for their food. Instead of complaining, they should be thankfull. With talks like this, I am afraid, Nikon and other will cut off their services.sunnyf16
wrote:
Gabriele Sartori said:
Nikon need a class action LS. Last week I got a letter from
Mercedes Benz. My wife car is the SUV ML320.
Click to expand...
I'd like to do the upgrade myself, too.

But what's wrong with free service on your precious SUV? Buying an
expensive car and having to go to Walmart for an oil change to save
a buck.

Since you have the money for the ML320, I'm sure you could use same
day FedEx to get your camera fixed.

Somebody should sue the lawyers for picking up those ridiculous
lawsuits.
Click to expand...
--
baruth
 
Gabriele Sartori said:
Nikon need a class action LS. Last week I got a letter from
Mercedes Benz. My wife car is the SUV ML320.

A customer of Mercedes didn’t trust the flex service provided by
Mercedes, where basically they never let you do the service since
it should be free. He decided to go at Wal-Mart, bought some
regular oil and changed the oil himself.

After a while the car starts to leak eventually he had to change
all the pistons. He sued Mercedes and now Mercedes is extending the
warranty from 4 years to 10 years and the mileage from 50000 to
150000 as a part of the settlement.

This is what Nikon needs. They haven’t been in US enough probably
but they like the US money these B@$t@rd.

I’ve the name of this legal firm that did the entire lawsuit to
Mercedes and made a few million $ out of it. I think they will be
happy to know about Nikon, so if we put the petition on the web
site and we write to this “nice people” they may take care of our
problem and I think will be contingency base no cost for us
consumer.

What do you think? I think is time to do it.

--
Regards
Gabriele Sartori
Click to expand...
What exactly are you suing Nikon for?....you're D100 not producing unforgettable masterpieces?...you're resolution target shots are a bit blurry at the edges?....might it be the firmware upgrade?.....have to pay $20 for shipping for the upgrade?...funny the D100 was the best of the rest two weeks ago and now it is useless?....perhaps it is not burnt in yet ?....no automatic dust wiper in the firmware upgrade? nothing is perfect in life that is why you have a brain....to figure out a way around the imperfection!... Photography is a craft, a long term endeavor. STOP WHINING! Learn the craft by taking many, many pictures with you're imperfect camera.

Boris

http://www.fotki.com/
 
Well, I paid 149.00 for the Capture 3. It did not work. After many calls and a few rebukes from loyal Nikon Fans and throwing away my USB 2.00 since it was not an approved USB, Nikon finally admitted that the capture 3 just doesn't work in certain units and they don't know why.

Mine is one of these.

Do you think they apologized or offered to return the money ( for the software) or even a voucher for a new one?. Nope.

They said that they just don't know. The tech rep. was very "sorry" but at the end he said "Thanks for calling Nikon" and hung.

Nobody would expect that things have to be perfect. Obvious defect, however, should be a matter of honor and brand dignity. Don't you think so?

Mario
Boris said:
Gabriele Sartori said:
Nikon need a class action LS. Last week I got a letter from
Mercedes Benz. My wife car is the SUV ML320.

A customer of Mercedes didn’t trust the flex service provided by
Mercedes, where basically they never let you do the service since
it should be free. He decided to go at Wal-Mart, bought some
regular oil and changed the oil himself.

After a while the car starts to leak eventually he had to change
all the pistons. He sued Mercedes and now Mercedes is extending the
warranty from 4 years to 10 years and the mileage from 50000 to
150000 as a part of the settlement.

This is what Nikon needs. They haven’t been in US enough probably
but they like the US money these B@$t@rd.

I’ve the name of this legal firm that did the entire lawsuit to
Mercedes and made a few million $ out of it. I think they will be
happy to know about Nikon, so if we put the petition on the web
site and we write to this “nice people” they may take care of our
problem and I think will be contingency base no cost for us
consumer.

What do you think? I think is time to do it.

--
Regards
Gabriele Sartori
Click to expand...
What exactly are you suing Nikon for?....you're D100 not producing
unforgettable masterpieces?...you're resolution target shots are a
bit blurry at the edges?....might it be the firmware
upgrade?.....have to pay $20 for shipping for the upgrade?...funny
the D100 was the best of the rest two weeks ago and now it is
useless?....perhaps it is not burnt in yet ?....no automatic dust
wiper in the firmware upgrade? nothing is perfect in life that is
why you have a brain....to figure out a way around the
imperfection!... Photography is a craft, a long term endeavor. STOP
WHINING! Learn the craft by taking many, many pictures with you're
imperfect camera.

Boris

http://www.fotki.com/
Click to expand...
 
Tom May said:
Thom Hogan,

I recall this anecdote, correctly I hope.

A short time after Lexus brought its first model into the U.S.,
there was a minor problem, only on a very few cars, a problem in
which Lexus could have easily dismissed. Instead, Lexus took the
opportunity to make individual arrangements with each owner to do
the repair either on site, or at their convenience at a dealership.

How many loyal Lexus owners were created by that one act? We will
probably never know, but this anecdote does tell volumes of how a
company can treat its customers.

I don't own the D100, and I don't see a major problem in sending
the camera back to Nikon. I just find that Nikon could have really
set themselves apart from the competition by making an extra effort
to accommodate their customers.

If I was running this, I would schedule 2-3 day visits to major
cities with the express purpose of while-you-wait upgrades. This
would probably cover a majority of the users, and could even be
used as a marketing campaign.

my $.02

tom
Click to expand...
The only problem is Lexus only had 'very few cars' and a Lexus also cost about 20x more than a Nikon D100. Lexus could probably afford to do this type of service much more easily than Nikon can just for the D100.

I do like you idea about going to the major cities and doing on site updates. The money they would save by not having to return ship the camera's would probably pay for the on site service. It would make for a good PR event where they could show off some accessories and high end lenses and get people hooked.

--
Ràvén
 
Mario

It is probably not Capture 3 that is defective. Probably the computer or operating system(Windows?) If you read the specs Nikon only claims suport for usb 1.1 w/D100.

Nikon probably only test Capture 3 on popular computers, like IBM, Compaq, Dell etc. There are so many variables of motherboards,video cards etc that they can't test them all. I have one of those no brand IBM clones and have to mess with installation problems constantly.

But you are right, you are certainly entitled to get youre money back. As far as honor in big business... there is none....only the almighty stock price.

Boris
Mario Burgos said:
Mine is one of these.

Do you think they apologized or offered to return the money ( for
the software) or even a voucher for a new one?. Nope.

They said that they just don't know. The tech rep. was very
"sorry" but at the end he said "Thanks for calling Nikon" and hung.

Nobody would expect that things have to be perfect. Obvious
defect, however, should be a matter of honor and brand dignity.
Don't you think so?

Mario
Boris said:
Gabriele Sartori said:
Nikon need a class action LS. Last week I got a letter from
Mercedes Benz. My wife car is the SUV ML320.

A customer of Mercedes didn’t trust the flex service provided by
Mercedes, where basically they never let you do the service since
it should be free. He decided to go at Wal-Mart, bought some
regular oil and changed the oil himself.

After a while the car starts to leak eventually he had to change
all the pistons. He sued Mercedes and now Mercedes is extending the
warranty from 4 years to 10 years and the mileage from 50000 to
150000 as a part of the settlement.

This is what Nikon needs. They haven’t been in US enough probably
but they like the US money these B@$t@rd.

I’ve the name of this legal firm that did the entire lawsuit to
Mercedes and made a few million $ out of it. I think they will be
happy to know about Nikon, so if we put the petition on the web
site and we write to this “nice people” they may take care of our
problem and I think will be contingency base no cost for us
consumer.

What do you think? I think is time to do it.

--
Regards
Gabriele Sartori
Click to expand...
What exactly are you suing Nikon for?....you're D100 not producing
unforgettable masterpieces?...you're resolution target shots are a
bit blurry at the edges?....might it be the firmware
upgrade?.....have to pay $20 for shipping for the upgrade?...funny
the D100 was the best of the rest two weeks ago and now it is
useless?....perhaps it is not burnt in yet ?....no automatic dust
wiper in the firmware upgrade? nothing is perfect in life that is
why you have a brain....to figure out a way around the
imperfection!... Photography is a craft, a long term endeavor. STOP
WHINING! Learn the craft by taking many, many pictures with you're
imperfect camera.

Boris

http://www.fotki.com/
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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