F717: Sony needs a spankin'

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ulysses
  • Start date Start date
I understand.

So how about sticking with the SPF, then? :-))
hehe......and with that phrase.....oh nevermind....

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Well,

Some of those who are not superficial and know the background will
understand...
--

Ulysses
--
cheers
Zip:P

=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
F717 with no symptons what-so-ever!
Sticker Status: on for now

 
It's astounding....

A thread goes on for say 30 or 50 posts. Then someone makes a
comment or observation about someone who was not even involved in
the thread and, poof..... they suddenly show up in the next post
immediately following !!
lurkers always lurk...
If you are serious about leaving STF.... I can honestly say I
believe you WILL be back. :-) Take it from an expert lol
oh...i hope your crystal ball is telling you a fib.
hehe
--
cheers
Zip:P

=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
F717 with no symptons what-so-ever!
Sticker Status: on for now

 
I am not so sure that saturation control would be a good thing for Sony. The reason is that Sony has already pushed the color saturation to the upper end and so any additional + saturation would result in clipping (at least the red).

The reason Nikon and Canon can add saturation control is because they have less saturated colors to begin with. Nikon in particular has rather dull greens.

For Sony to offer saturation control, they would have to tone down their default color setting and thus defeat their marketing strategy to produce pleasing color right out of the "box".

David Clark
 
Ulysses,

Someday, you will wake up, and Phil will have a note posted in the news of 256 MB and 512 MB MS available immediately.

Get your telescope out. That asteroid will make one fine photo!

tom
 
I personally like it when someone can cogently argue their strong opinions.

Doesn't mean I neccessarily have to agree . . . I figure if I can come away from Andreas' withering criticisms of the F707/F717 still liking the camera, there must be more positives about it than negatives.

--
Depends upon how people take his comments. :-)
He's a good Sony-spanker. He approaches it with a
this-is-going-to-hurt-me-more-than-it-will-you sort of attitude.

--
W.C. VandenBerg
--

Ulysses
--
W.C. VandenBerg
 
Let it be said though, from reading this and other forums for a number of years, even if Sony were to adopt every one of Phil's wish list items for its 2004 DSC-F727, other manufacturers here and there would come up with some new additions to their list of controls/features and the response would be the same - so and so has this on their camera - why doesn't Sony? Also, such and such company has this on their camera - why doesn't Sony? It seems that if you don't have every option that might be available on some camera somewhere, you're going to get zapped for being, deficient no matter how many features/controls you already have. This has been the bane of stereo manufacturers for some time. If you can use all the switches and ports on your top line stereo system without employing several electronic engineers, your system must be deficient! Where will it all end? The better model digicams already have far more features/controls than top line film cameras, but some people still ask for more, more, more. How about three cheers for simpler, simpler, simpler!

Rodger
 
Someday I'll wake up and nave a DSLR sitting on the nightstand next to my bed! :-)

That will happen before the 256MB stick comes out. :-]

Seriously, the 512 would be acceptable. The 256 would be just silly without releasing the larger ones first.

Speaking of astronomy, did you hear about the new KBO (Kuiper Belt Object) that was found recently? Our solar system just got larger.
Ulysses,

Someday, you will wake up, and Phil will have a note posted in the
news of 256 MB and 512 MB MS available immediately.

Get your telescope out. That asteroid will make one fine photo!

tom
--

Ulysses
 
I agree with you. Totally. But only up to a point on some of these specific ones.

I'm totally on board with regard to the simple fact that companies leapfrog each other every once in a while.

But some of these features are so basic. And most of the other leading companies have them. How often do the users and reviewers need to mention some of these features before Sony answers?

The histo was the single greatest victory we've had in two years. Along with the multi-point focusing. As well as the additional white balance settings. Three cheers for Sony, I say!!!

But I'd rather be giving them Five, or Six, or Seven cheers to make it a complete celebration. :-))
Let it be said though, from reading this and other forums for a
number of years, even if Sony were to adopt every one of Phil's
wish list items for its 2004 DSC-F727, other manufacturers here and
there would come up with some new additions to their list of
controls/features and the response would be the same - so and so
has this on their camera - why doesn't Sony? Also, such and such
company has this on their camera - why doesn't Sony? It seems that
if you don't have every option that might be available on some
camera somewhere, you're going to get zapped for being, deficient
no matter how many features/controls you already have. This has
been the bane of stereo manufacturers for some time. If you can
use all the switches and ports on your top line stereo system
without employing several electronic engineers, your system must be
deficient! Where will it all end? The better model digicams
already have far more features/controls than top line film cameras,
but some people still ask for more, more, more. How about three
cheers for simpler, simpler, simpler!

Rodger
--

Ulysses
 
Hahahahahah... I'm a prophet. Bookmark my words. :-)

Andreas has a point with that little acronym, though. The proof? I've been razed in the past for singing nothing but Sony praises. But agree with some of Phil's points on the "cons" list and try to explain why they are cons and why we need to see improvements in those specific areas and the natives start to get restless. :-)

It's funny.
hehe......and with that phrase.....oh nevermind....

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
--

Ulysses
 
Anyway, what is a bit strange is that saturation and contrast are
two of the easiest things to implement. It would have taken maybe a
day or two.
Is this true?! Sony really DOES deserve a spanking!
The proof is in the pudding. Saturation and contrast are so easy
even I can do it! :-) Seriously, these are very straightforward.
Compared to the color issues Sony addressed they are total pieces
of cake.

That said, once they had the routines written they would have had
to tie them into the menu system somewhere and then find an entry
point in the image processing routines. But that doesn't strike me
as being a huge deal.
--
W.C. VandenBerg
 
Indeed.

The thing that a lot of the newer folks don't realize here is Andreas' very, very long history with the Sony cameras. He goes way back, almost as far back as the time that I started out here. Ahhhh... we were so young then! :-)

Andreas and a few others of us were key to understanding the way some of the insides of the Sony cameras worked, how their logic was put together, and tons of stuff related to exposure, DOF, etc. That was the Heyday of the STF.

We went through a period of drought, however, when he left (he was on another of his camera sprees, like a bee hopping from flower to flower) and when a number of other users went with DSLR.

I felt like the kid who kept failing the 8th grade or something. Always wanted to play on the varsity team but couldn't get into high school. Hah!!

Anyway, the things that were built back then with regards to Sony imaging and Sony philosophy continue to be cornerstones if one is to understand the nature of Sony Cyber-shot cameras and where they are headed in the future.

Over the past year, what we see now in the STF is a sort of rebirth of knowledge. This includes fine, fine, fine folks who have the knowledge, the technical know-how and communications skills to share their experiments and findings. This is without a doubt what being in the forum is all about: Sharing and contributing and learning. Asking and answering the questions. We have some excellent men and women doing that here, once more.

This is the good stuff, folks! This is when the forum is at its best. Don't understand a feature, don't like a feature? Debate it. Figure out how it works and WHY it works. Figure out what is going wrong and WHY it goes wrong.

There is no need to ever get personal about data. Data is just numbers and observations, saying little about a person's character.

Some of the old school guys have their wealth of knowledge gained from years of experience with other cameras. Andreas and Pondria fall into that category. And so I'm always thankful when they make their reappearance. I understand where they come from.

Doesn't mean that sometimes they don't make mistakes. But I think we can afford to be a little forgiving. It's like when grandpa makes some minor faux pax. We just forgive him for being grumpy like that. After all, that's what grandpas like to do! :-)

NO, Andreas is not an old man!!! :-)

I don't see Andreas as scathing about Sony cameras. He respects them. He also knows where they have their limitations. He likes to tease A LOT!!!! Trust me here! A LOT!!! hahahahahahahahahahahahah...

So for the newer guys, don't worry about it when some of your cherished cameras are taken to task for not being perfect. It's only because we like them so much that we spend the time on them the way we do. :-)

Enjoy the forum, folks.
I personally like it when someone can cogently argue their strong
opinions.
Doesn't mean I neccessarily have to agree . . . I figure if I can
come away from Andreas' withering criticisms of the F707/F717 still
liking the camera, there must be more positives about it than
negatives.
--

Ulysses
 
Any company can set any saturation that they want as their default. It all depends upon their Saturation Philosophy. :-)

Sony could easily, for example, choose their saturation default as a setting of "3". They could then add two saturation profiles that go "2" and then "1" notch lower.

It's arbitrary.

THe point is that they could easily give the control here, setting it within a specific range, but giving the user choice so that he doesn't have to pull it into the image editor.

This has NOTHING to do with the fact that Sony produces good color today. Thank goodness they do. But it's a fact that Sony was both loved and reviled for their choices of color not only in the F707, but also going back through the S85, S75, and some of the other camera series. The P-series was the only camera system seemingly immune to criticism regarding oversaturation.

Sony needed to address this. They did, partially, with the F717. The sat control would have gone the extra mile.

This isn't a rant. It's an explanation of why Phil and the other reviewers include this in the list of "what's missing". ANd they have for years now.
I am not so sure that saturation control would be a good thing for
Sony. The reason is that Sony has already pushed the color
saturation to the upper end and so any additional + saturation
would result in clipping (at least the red).

The reason Nikon and Canon can add saturation control is because
they have less saturated colors to begin with. Nikon in particular
has rather dull greens.

For Sony to offer saturation control, they would have to tone down
their default color setting and thus defeat their marketing
strategy to produce pleasing color right out of the "box".

David Clark
--

Ulysses
 
Hahahahahah... I'm a prophet. Bookmark my words. :-)

Andreas has a point with that little acronym, though. The proof?
I've been razed in the past for singing nothing but Sony praises.
But agree with some of Phil's points on the "cons" list and try to
explain why they are cons and why we need to see improvements in
those specific areas and the natives start to get restless. :-)

It's funny.
i was laughing because here he is straight to the point without any lagging derogatory or facetious comments and he even uses the right acronym then here comes Uly stirring the pot with a reminded of what the acronym used to be...lmao....bad boy..wicked wicked....man...bwahahaaaa
hehe......and with that phrase.....oh nevermind....

hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
--

Ulysses
--
cheers
Zip:P

=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
F717 with no symptons what-so-ever!
Sticker Status: on for now

 
But you've just gotta love me!!

Bahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!©

This is a great forum.
i was laughing because here he is straight to the point without any
lagging derogatory or facetious comments and he even uses the right
acronym then here comes Uly stirring the pot with a reminded of
what the acronym used to be...lmao....bad boy..wicked
wicked....man...bwahahaaaa
--

Ulysses
 
Thank you for the thoughful comments, Ulysses. What I love about you and others on this forum is your ability to impart knowledge without "lecturing," also to engage in discussions without personal attacks. That, and sometimes you're just so darn cute! "The Heyday of the STF" . . . "Ahhhh... we were so young then!" -- that brought a tear to my eye. Really!

--
W.C. VandenBerg
 
Ulysses,
Speaking of astronomy, did you hear about the new KBO (Kuiper Belt
Object) that was found recently? Our solar system just got larger.
I'm sure that there's already someone complaining about property tax increases to build a new fire station, and how bad the traffic is going to get.

"Wormhole improvements"
"Your Fusion Drive taxes at work"

tom
 
Thank you for the thoughful comments, Ulysses.
You're welcome. I like helping out where I can.
What I love about
you and others on this forum is your ability to impart knowledge
without "lecturing,"
Well, I've been guilty of that, unfortunately. I do try to avoid the verbage, but sometimes can't stop myself.
also to engage in discussions without personal attacks.
I definitely try not to do that.
That, and sometimes you're just so darn cute!
I am!!!

I really, really am!!!!! :-)

Speaking of cute, here's the really cute one in the family. My nephew!! Squeezable!!!

Six weeks old, already.


"The Heyday of the STF" . . . "Ahhhh... we were so young then!" -- that
brought a tear to my eye. Really!
Heheheh... I always make an effort for the tear-jerker whenever possible. :-)

--

Ulysses
 
With that hairdo, he looks like a young Orson Wells!

Look here for a comparison: http://students.goucher.edu/vmoorman/Orson%20Welles%20Web%20pg.htm

--
Thank you for the thoughful comments, Ulysses.
You're welcome. I like helping out where I can.
What I love about
you and others on this forum is your ability to impart knowledge
without "lecturing,"
Well, I've been guilty of that, unfortunately. I do try to avoid
the verbage, but sometimes can't stop myself.
also to engage in discussions without personal attacks.
I definitely try not to do that.
That, and sometimes you're just so darn cute!
I am!!!

I really, really am!!!!! :-)

Speaking of cute, here's the really cute one in the family. My
nephew!! Squeezable!!!

Six weeks old, already.


"The Heyday of the STF" . . . "Ahhhh... we were so young then!" -- that
brought a tear to my eye. Really!
Heheheh... I always make an effort for the tear-jerker whenever
possible. :-)

--

Ulysses
--
W.C. VandenBerg
 

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