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An Even Smaller Size Leica Full-Frame Digital, Is Soon On The Way??

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BRJR

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At half the price of the M9? Um, yeah. Sure.

Mind you, it could have the guts of a Nikon D700 or Canon 5D Mark II (latter more likely if the specs are accurate), and offer that ISO range. Not sure about the lenses, though. I'm chalking this one up to wishful thinking.
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jlindstrom said:
One of the most ridiculous rumors heard in a LOOOOOOONG time!

Juha
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Most will agree that the M8/9 is still quite large compared to some of its film bretheren. Keep in mind that with technology, things do tend to get smaller.

Let's just speculate for a moment... if Leica produced the M10 and it had the exact same feature set as the M9 but noticeably smaller and still full frame, how many M9s would be up for sale on eBay?

Let's take a lesson from the recent past..... Never rule out anything. Leica said a digital rangefinder was not possible. Epson proved them wrong. Then Leica said a full frame digital rangefinder was not possible.. only to produce one themselves... so you really shouldn't say that a smaller full frame digital rangefinder is not possible.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
Even with the luanch of X1 and M9, I've already voiced that by adopting the LVIL( LCD Live View interchangeable lens ) concept can be employed either by simply using the X1 chassis with an m mount and mechnical shutter or simply use the M9 chassis but build it more like the old screw mount I style ( ditch the top housing for all those extra bits )

it would be a logical step , we need look no further than the many fellow photographer who are today using the M4/3 E-Pen or Panasonic G series with Leica M / screw lens to know that the market is there, just thre right product need apply ( and not the now traditional Leica way up there premium pricing )

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  • Franka -
 
Franka T.L. said:
just thre right product need apply ( and not the now traditional Leica way up there premium pricing )
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Yeah, well good luck with that. Leica will never come out of the statosphere when it comes to pricing. You have to remember that Leica sells cameras AND class/style. It will never change as long as so many are willing to pay just to have the Red Dot Status.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
Jim Radcliffe said:
You have to remember that Leica sells cameras AND class/style. It will never change as long as so many are willing to pay just to have the Red Dot Status.
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And thank goodness for that. All those well-heeled status seekers make it possible for a camera I prefer to use to even be on the market.
 
ljclark said:
Jim Radcliffe said:
You have to remember that Leica sells cameras AND class/style. It will never change as long as so many are willing to pay just to have the Red Dot Status.
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And thank goodness for that. All those well-heeled status seekers make it possible for a camera I prefer to use to even be on the market.
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:)

Those, are certainly the case, and for Leica the Dilemma, to made good a healthy business yet again and able to substain not just the name and style, but also R&D, the mfr need a much more down to the earth model. The M and now S series is more their traditional customer / class / POSH / status lineup. It would wait to see if they are willing to actually go out and reach the real wider photographic community. In praktical term, no one is asking for economic pricing, but one that is reasonable vs the competition ( say should a FF LVIL with the M9's sensor pretty much the same level that of the Nikon D3 and shopuld reside with similar price bracket )

--
  • Franka -
 
ljclark said:
And thank goodness for that. All those well-heeled status seekers make it possible for a camera I prefer to use to even be on the market.
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There's just something a bit creepy about that. I love and appreciate Leica cameras and glass but I do have issues with their pricing. I really don't care if the rich guy next door buys and M9 and $15K in lenses and doesn't have a clue how to use it. More power to him if he can afford it. But it bothers me that Leica caters to these people (just look at all the "special edition" models). Those are not for you and me.

I continue to hope for a true Volks-Leica. The X1 could have been that camera but without the ability to use the M-Lenses, it's just another point and shoot with a large sensor.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
how is leica pricing their cameras just based on status?

is there an alternative to the M9 (or M8 or M8.2 for that matter) other than the Epson RD1/1s/1x? And do you know how much a new RD1x (RD1/1s both out of production) goes for nowadays?

these are the only two DRFs on the market, period. to compare the EPs and GFs to DRFs is like comparing apples to oranges because they are very different products.
Franka T.L. said:
ljclark said:
Jim Radcliffe said:
You have to remember that Leica sells cameras AND class/style. It will never change as long as so many are willing to pay just to have the Red Dot Status.
Click to expand...
And thank goodness for that. All those well-heeled status seekers make it possible for a camera I prefer to use to even be on the market.
Click to expand...
:)

Those, are certainly the case, and for Leica the Dilemma, to made good a healthy business yet again and able to substain not just the name and style, but also R&D, the mfr need a much more down to the earth model. The M and now S series is more their traditional customer / class / POSH / status lineup. It would wait to see if they are willing to actually go out and reach the real wider photographic community. In praktical term, no one is asking for economic pricing, but one that is reasonable vs the competition ( say should a FF LVIL with the M9's sensor pretty much the same level that of the Nikon D3 and shopuld reside with similar price bracket )

--
  • Franka -
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--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GALLERY: http://galay.fotki.com

Gary
 
Jim Radcliffe said:
ljclark said:
And thank goodness for that. All those well-heeled status seekers make it possible for a camera I prefer to use to even be on the market.
Click to expand...
There's just something a bit creepy about that. I love and appreciate Leica cameras and glass but I do have issues with their pricing. I really don't care if the rich guy next door buys and M9 and $15K in lenses and doesn't have a clue how to use it. More power to him if he can afford it. But it bothers me that Leica caters to these people (just look at all the "special edition" models). Those are not for you and me.

I continue to hope for a true Volks-Leica. The X1 could have been that camera but without the ability to use the M-Lenses, it's just another point and shoot with a large sensor.
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jim, it is true, but remind me, how many true large sensor compacts are there on the market? when you factor in the lens quality, handling and high ISO performance, you are left with only the X1 and GXR/A12. and then if you need 35 EFOV not 50, then the X1 is the only choice left on the market, period.
Member said:
--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
Click to expand...
--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GALLERY: http://galay.fotki.com

Gary
 
This constant passive/aggressive haranguing of Leica's pricing business plan is getting a bit tired. Status seekers of the Red Dot? I've never met a Leica user who was a status seeker, hanging any type of Leica body off-shoulder as bling. Nor have I ever read here a posting by a status seeker. Snobs, yes - but they genuinely (and incorrectly) feel Leitz products are the only photographic tools to use.

We are not privy to Leica's business plan, but do you not think for an instant that if they could increase sales, market share, and profit by reducing their pricing, that they wouldn't in a second? Do you really believe the exotic collectors of Leica a la carte goods in any way drive the pricing of the M9, X1, or DLux series? I'd think their delivery-to-market model has more to do with their relatively higher pricing than status seeking exploitation.

Please, can we not stop these idiotic assertions that Leica is here to serve the elitist consumers with more brains than money? I'd like to have a more affordable m-mount type body at half the price than is available now - but then I wish I had a silk wallet made from a sow's ear...
--
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M is not for everyone and that means that not everyone who can afford M is buying M. So yes, this makes sense from that perspective. The price quoted is almost mass market for Leica though and we're looking at a camera that, for nature (and potentially street too if AF is good) photographers could eat into CaNikon's high end.

--
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J

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jeff hladun said:
This constant passive/aggressive haranguing of Leica's pricing business plan is getting a bit tired. Status seekers of the Red Dot? I've never met a Leica user who was a status seeker, hanging any type of Leica body off-shoulder as bling. Nor have I ever read here a posting by a status seeker. Snobs, yes - but they genuinely (and incorrectly) feel Leitz products are the only photographic tools to use.
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Well, lucky you, Jeff. You may not have met one but I have, no less than three of them in the last year. I asked one guy with an M8.2 what he thought of the camera and he said it was great but it should have Auto Focus. He actually said that for the money he could not understand why it did not have AF. I politely agreed with him and moved on.
jeff hladun said:
We are not privy to Leica's business plan, but do you not think for an instant that if they could increase sales, market share, and profit by reducing their pricing, that they wouldn't in a second?
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No, I don't. I think they are happy being what they are. A company that makes great lenses, good cameras and also has the status of being a boutique camera company.
jeff hladun said:
Do you really believe the exotic collectors of Leica a la carte goods in any way drive the pricing of the M9, X1, or DLux series? I'd think their delivery-to-market model has more to do with their relatively higher pricing than status seeking exploitation.
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I believe that Leica could deliver a digital system camera that uses M-mount lenses for much less than they sell the M series camera but they will never do it because it would hurt the sales of the M system. Think Digital CL, Jeff.
jeff hladun said:
Please, can we not stop these idiotic assertions that Leica is here to serve the elitist consumers with more brains than money? I'd like to have a more affordable m-mount type body at half the price than is available now - but then I wish I had a silk wallet made from a sow's ear...
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For the record, Jeff. I did not say Leica was here to serve the elistist consumer with more brains than money. I said that there are those with more money than brains who buy Leica because it has, in fact, become a symbol of status and wealth. In Leica's defense I must that Leica at least produces great lenses and cameras, unlike Rolex whose watches tend not keep time as well as a cheap $30 Timex.

And Jeff, if you don't like the thread, don't join it... tick me and anyone else you don't care to hear from to your ignore list... problem solved and you can continue to enjoy your Leica experience without uninformed fools like myself causing you distress.

--
Jim Radcliffe
http://www.boxedlight.com
http://www.oceona.com

The ability to 'see' the shot is more important than the gear used to capture it.
 
I'm not sure how a man bemoaning lack of autofocus on an M8 can be considered a status-seeker; to me he is just someone who purchased the wrong kind of camera for his needs. Maybe he should wait for the digital CL with full-frame sensor and autofocus lenses at half the current price of the M9. But it's doubtful that'll ever happen.

If I may make a generalization, the posters of these threads who are dissatisfied with the pricing of Leica equipment are also those unhappy with the lack of autofocus and the limitations of the optical viewfinder. It just seems they should take a pass on rangefinders, and work with either the DSLR or live view cameras. Leitz is not interested in appealing to the photographer for whom the rangefinder approach is anathema; complaining about their pricing strategies - to them - will only fall on deaf ears.

My dissenting opinion in this thread is offered on behalf of the users/purchasers extremely happy with the rangefinder approach - reading these repeated protests in the blissful silence of the majority here in this forum - too busy taking photographs to care about the pricing concerns of armchair quarterbacks.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/12191517@N05/
 
1. As, the info about it says:

".... Price: body only 3200 EUR.
Will start with 3(!) pancakes, 2 primes, 2 zooms.”

2. And, I am not aware of any "zooms" for the M-mount. But, with the "AF" located as part of the sensor, I am just not sure what this or similar such Leica camera bodies would be capable of -- could be a real game changer, provided this is what Leica wants. :|

--
BRJR ....(LOL, some of us are quite satisfied as Hobbyists ..)


odin_cro said:
BRJR said:
According to info at this link, yes. :-)

http://leicarumors.com/2010/05/05/rumor-leica-evil-camera-for-photokina.aspx/
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Interesting...
So, if this is true, it seems we will see new mount?

--
Dinko Jakovljevic

http://odin.zenfolio.com
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by that account, should Nikonj be pricing their D3 much higher, its after aqll the only FF ( DSLR or not ) that actually deliver true quality High ISO capture. Should Canon price their 1D much hiogher, after all its the only APS-H format. Or ..... many such ...

RF is just another form of camera mechanism , not different than SLR or even Liveview , just different. Leica, since the very way back times when they start with the M4-P, had start this pricing ( themselves out of the wider photographic community )

Even though I start up with Leica since way back with the screw mounts. I do not see any reason why a new liveview FF Leica should not be priced to be within norm to be able to field the brand to the wider community of todays photographer., As stated, nobody asking for economic pricing, but definitely not over inflated pricing.

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  • Franka -
 
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