Interview with Hiroshi Onoda, manager of Pentax Europe.

The A serie was complete, but it nearly killed the company so Pentax therefore released few AF lenses and has never had a complete lens lineup since the 80's because of the losses made back then.
Really, Roland?

Looking at Boz's site, I count 37 A lenses. I count 42 autofocus lenses available at the height of the FA period (excluding FAJ lenses).

Some of the A lenses were optical carryovers from the K and M series. And some of the F and FA lenses were optical carryovers from the A series.

A precise count is hard, because there were different variants of some lenses. But the contention that Pentax released few autofocus lenses is simply wrong.

Joe
 
Hoya has done a great job pushing Pentax in the right direction. The K-7 is a huge step in the right direction for Pentax.

I personally do not see the need for a FF camera. APS-H would be plenty and allow for better performance from the existing (older) glass. Personally I would like Pentax to produce a APS-H with a 5/4 or 4/3 aspect ratio. I am not a fan of 3/2 for composition, and 5/4 or 4/3 uses more of the lens "sweet spot" than the wider 3/2. Plus they print much better to 8x10 and 11x14.

The 1D4 is not a FF and is obviously a very popular "pro" camera. I know a couple of guys who are still not happy about the speed of the 1D4 AF (it still trails Nikon), so Pentax has a long way to go before they will have an AF system that is really fast/accurate enough to be accepted by professional sports.

The lenses also need to be improved when it comes to speed and noise. I would love to see the Limited prime lenses redesigned with new coatings, better digital designs, and an AF motor that is as fast and quiet as Sigma's HSM or Canon USM.

One good thing about Sony is that they are whores and will sell anything to anyone. They make very good sensors and Pentax could do worse than buying sensors from Sony. It obviously has not hurt Nikon.
 
Hmmm. On the right side of the screen, other translations say "I castrate moon and Orion," and "I castrate moon and stars."

Assuming that these are indicative of the quality of the babelfish translation, perhaps Onoda-san actually said that the FF will be released next week. Or maybe he is sending me one to evaluate. Or maybe he said that Pentax will be sold next month to General Motors.

Joe
 
I am not kidding, but you are misunderstanding me because I was unclear.. When I "make" I mean "bring to the market" in the sense - developing. Not the assemblent nor the production.

The 67 system was developed in the 60's so development was paid for long ago, it was not paid for in the 80's. The system had paid itself over the years so Pentax earned money on it.

The Auto 110 was a niche system in the sense only a few lenses were developed for it and only one model which was updated a few times. The system only lived for a few years then it was discontinued in the early 80's. If it had been so successful as you implies, it would have lived longer.

None of those had the advanced electronics and amount of gadges of todays cameras.

Developing a new micro mount camera without mirrors requires new AF system (phase detect AF won't work) and lenses with new technology that works well with contrast detect AF (current lenses are too slow with contrast detect AF). Pentax needs to develop a fully electronic lens mount, something they have never done before. Also metering is different, because there is no viewfinder (metering and AF system in today's Pentax DSLR's sits in the viewfinder). So there are lots of things that needs to be developed from scratch by Pentax and this is expensive.

They simply can't take the K-mount and shrink it... It is not that easy.

Pentax had money for extravaganza in the 80's, like the worlds most complete manual focus lens system. And this system didn't sell so it was a disaster for Pentax that nearly killed the company. Thankfully for Pentax, the Espio range saved the company and during the 90's Pentax earned money from other cameras. For more than 20 years, the Pentax camera division has been unprofitable. Other areas within the company has paid for the cameras to be alive.

Now, Hoya has made it very clear when they took over - if the products are not selling, then Pentax will be detached or closed down. So Pentax has a press on themselves that wasn't there before.

When judging future products from Pentax, the new company policy has to be taken into account. Canon and Nikon can afford making losses on products, they can afford trying to step into a market and see what happens. Pentax, under the Hoya direction, can't.

Hoya has reduced the manufacturing and R&D units at Pentax. Canon and Nikon has much more R&D resources. Pentax has problem developing more than one camera at once, that is why the cameras they released lately has so much of the same within them. K-x is a K-m with some K-7 ideas. It was too expensive for Pentax to make a new design for the K-x so they simply re-used the K-m body.

Neither Nikon nor Canon have to do those cost cuttings and compromises, but Pentax have to.

You are free to believe what you want, but I don't agree with you that Pentax can support 4 systems on the market with full lens lineups when not even Canon and Nikon can do it - especially not when Hoya is running the bussiness and they are not prepared to pay for unprofitable products.

Pentax needs partners and for the moment, they are alone. Samsung is walking alone with the NX system and no announcements of new partners has been made. So for the moment, Pentax has very limited resources and a shrinked R&D department compared to the old times.

Pentax of today is not the giant it was in the late 70's and early 80's when K-mount was the dominant lens mount.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
OK then your saying Pentax can't compete? It does not have the resources to make a state of the art AF system, tracking system, get into EVIL type bodies (a must), offer a stepping stone. Pentax has some 645 plans left over in the drawers, so it brings them out and adds K-7 technology, and proven Kodak technology and Pentax knowledge in sealing bodies gained from the K10D added into a MF body and shazam a big MF Pentax 645, maybe it will make money and be a statement... Well the it did not take a lot of grounds up engineering. Did it?

What you write Roland does not sound good. But is probably the truth. Pentax needs a partner right now! Its the right time, Pentax has made some inroads with its K-x and K-7 and past K10/20D owners.

--
jamesm007,
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z77/jamesm700/
WSSA member 266PX
 
Technically, yes, Sony could be the ideal partner for Pentax, but Pentax wouldn't be the ideal partner for Sony.

It is hard to see how much value Sony can see in Pentax. Even suppose Hoya was to sell Pentax to Sony, there is a lot of worry. Sony would probably pick out the lens licenses and whatever knowledgeware that is of value for use in new Sony models, and spit out all the rest. The Pentax orphans probably will be given an adapter to let them use their lenses on Sony mirrorless cameras or coaxed to choose Sony DSLRs.
 
But the thing I really, really would like to see less vagueness and more drive.

Pentax seem to think they should "wait and see" with everything. No rush getting the 645D onto the world market. That's pure dumb. Strike while it's hot and establish it firmly. But no, the Pentax way is to wait and be as vague as possible to potential buyers - they haven't even announced any dates yet ! I haven't even see a professional review in English.
it's the same with the other brands. What's sony strategy and time-line ? you should hear the crying about the A700 upgrade. What's their lens road-map ?
how about canikon - are they going mirrorless and if so when and what will
the camera be like ? will it require a new lens mount?
This vagueness also hurts them when they will not say what their plan is for FF.

Right now I can get three professional standard FF sets of cameras from the competition, not just one model each, but several. FF, even as an option for the future, is a key selector for a professional and many enthusiasts.
what you're describing is a crowded market. What competitive advantage would Pentax have? Even sony, with all it's resources, is having trouble with FF - and look at their prices! almost seems like sony wants a price war...

and as you say, supporting Pro's is a big undertaking and would require serious R&D in AF, flash, and everything else

plus pentax has a camera in the class above FF - this could be interesting

the APS-C market is far from dead. Look at canon's 7D !! it's around the price of sony's FF - so why are ppl loving it and buying it ?

the Kx is a killer product. Maybe with the other brands chasing the pro market, FF, and mirrorless market they will make mistakes in the

Look at sony. They totally blew their entry level lines (and maybe all their cameras) by not having video. How does that happen? Sony is making the sensor chips!!!
Management screw-up.

so i guess that puts me in the "no FF" category - i'd much prefer to see more Kx/K7 designs
If Pentax do not commit one way or another to FF they will loose a substantial part of their loyal customer base. These are the people who give word of mouth support to Pentax.

Their loyalty is being used to keep them hanging on. Frankly I do not believe Pentax will produce an FF. I dare say we will eventually get a vague promise of an FF, but I really do not believe these dreamy words any more.

They must tell us what the plan is. If they even have a plan. They need to do that because we need to plan based on it. Pros, in particular, run businesses and they have to make forward looking plans. Vague promises are useless to them.

Pentax must make an unambiguous statement on FF.

Are we getting it and if so, when ?

Over to you Pentax.

--
StephenG

Pentax K100D
Fuji S3 Pro
Fuji S9600
 
Some folks around here just don't want to believe it. Pentax has been asked numerous times, by lots of interviewers, and every time they have said 24x36 is not in their future.

How much clearer can you get?
 
Hello Lance

I completely disagree with your statement. I think it would be suicidal for Pentax to develop a 35mm sensor camera for many reasons

One of the most obvious is that it would force them to develop simultaneously two lens lines and in a shrinking market , that is almost impossible task , especially when you think of the position in this field hold by Pentax and Nikon

Pentax has made its reputation in the DSLR market by having compact bodies and compact lenses. and despite all the wishful thinking , developing a DSLR with a 35mm sensor and the size of a K7 or a little bigger is NOT going to happen

Another thing to keep in mind is that the current Pentax aps catalog does not have many weather sealed lenses when the weather sealing seems a big selling point

so they need to focus -pun intended- on developing more single focal lenses and re-introducing some existing ones with weather seals

Also , the trend in dslr is towards smaller sensors. the technological progress of the sensor makes the 35mm sensor less desirable

you and others may like the idea of a 35mm sensor but there is NOT a market big enough for Pentax and I hope they know it

the next body should be a K7 with a double card slot ( I would hope CF+SD but based on the 645d I am not optimistic) and the sony sensor of the K-x

Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit
It will be suicidal for Pentax NOT to develop a 35mm sensor dSLR. Their enthusiast base will continue to erode until they're done with if they don't.

It would NOT force them to develop two separate lens lines; they need only develop ONE lens line - a FF lens line, with perhaps a single lens to get the wide end covered for APS-C at the bottom of the range. The remainder can just be FF lenses, since there is NO size or weight advantage for lenses of the same focal length and aperture anyway - the lenses for APS-C are built on the same lens mount and never were any lighter (the only "advantage" was using a shorter focal length for the same angle of view, the lenses of the same focal length and f-stop are about the same size and weight as similar FF lenses).

There is nothing stopping Pentax (or anyone else who desires to do so) from making a FF dSLR that is more compact than those offered by Nikon or Canon; if you look into your mirror box, you'll see the APS-C sensor doesn't fill it - it already is big enough, since the lens mount and register distance (and hence to a large extent, the mirror box) were dictated by a 35mm format already.

Nothing "technological" about sensors has made 35mm less desirable, and nothing ever will. Anything that can improve smaller sensors will ALSO improve bigger ones, and the optical advantage of a larger format will never go away. With APS-C, you're asking the lens to resolve the same details at 42.25% of the size the lens has to resolve them at on a FF dSLR, a big disadvantage.

Pentax can find a "FF niche" as easily as they can find an "APS-C niche." Think about a FF dSLR with a 100% coverage, 95% magnification viewfinder, for example. Combine that with the excellent Pentax backward compatibility and you've got something with an instant advantage over Nikon and Canon (and Sony for that matter). Add your Pentax weather and dust sealing and a rugged but affordable body, and you're off to the races.
 
...that there are not plans to introduce a castrating attachment for the next Pentax.
Lance B wrote:
...
Hmmm. On the right side of the screen, other translations say "I castrate moon and Orion," and "I castrate moon and stars."

Assuming that these are indicative of the quality of the babelfish translation, perhaps Onoda-san actually said that the FF will be released next week. Or maybe he is sending me one to evaluate. Or maybe he said that Pentax will be sold next month to General Motors.

Joe
 
Some folks around here just don't want to believe it. Pentax has been asked numerous times, by lots of interviewers, and every time they have said 24x36 is not in their future.

How much clearer can you get?
You've got a short and selective memory. Nikon was just as adamant about not coming out with a FF dSLR, right before they...came out with a FF dSLR.
 
It will be suicidal for Pentax NOT to develop a 35mm sensor dSLR. Their enthusiast base will continue to erode until they're done with if they don't.
Pentax is small and poor company with poor engineers which, at the time now, simply cannot make lenses good enough to match the quality of the good Sony or Kodak FF sensors that could be used in FF DSLR. Very simple.

Pentax has never been up to Canon and Nikon quality. C and N were better and more expensive! AF speed, AF accuracy, shooting speed, lens quality, flash... P was cheaper and not so good, always.

Beside all that, I would be happy to buy FF camera so I can use my old (and not so old) Pentax lenses.

I will never ever again buy anything Pentax if I dont see the FF in the product timeline in near future.

--
Marc Sabatella wrote:

You are an idiot, an evil person, and you deserve all the bad things that will ever happen to you in life. That about sums it up; I expect to have nothing else to say.
 
Hello Lance

I completely disagree with your statement. I think it would be suicidal for Pentax to develop a 35mm sensor camera for many reasons

One of the most obvious is that it would force them to develop simultaneously two lens lines and in a shrinking market , that is almost impossible task , especially when you think of the position in this field hold by Pentax and Nikon

Pentax has made its reputation in the DSLR market by having compact bodies and compact lenses. and despite all the wishful thinking , developing a DSLR with a 35mm sensor and the size of a K7 or a little bigger is NOT going to happen

Another thing to keep in mind is that the current Pentax aps catalog does not have many weather sealed lenses when the weather sealing seems a big selling point

so they need to focus -pun intended- on developing more single focal lenses and re-introducing some existing ones with weather seals

Also , the trend in dslr is towards smaller sensors. the technological progress of the sensor makes the 35mm sensor less desirable

you and others may like the idea of a 35mm sensor but there is NOT a market big enough for Pentax and I hope they know it

the next body should be a K7 with a double card slot ( I would hope CF+SD but based on the 645d I am not optimistic) and the sony sensor of the K-x

Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit
It will be suicidal for Pentax NOT to develop a 35mm sensor dSLR. Their enthusiast base will continue to erode until they're done with if they don't.
I agree.
It would NOT force them to develop two separate lens lines; they need only develop ONE lens line - a FF lens line, with perhaps a single lens to get the wide end covered for APS-C at the bottom of the range. The remainder can just be FF lenses, since there is NO size or weight advantage for lenses of the same focal length and aperture anyway - the lenses for APS-C are built on the same lens mount and never were any lighter (the only "advantage" was using a shorter focal length for the same angle of view, the lenses of the same focal length and f-stop are about the same size and weight as similar FF lenses).
You are correct.
There is nothing stopping Pentax (or anyone else who desires to do so) from making a FF dSLR that is more compact than those offered by Nikon or Canon; if you look into your mirror box, you'll see the APS-C sensor doesn't fill it - it already is big enough, since the lens mount and register distance (and hence to a large extent, the mirror box) were dictated by a 35mm format already.
Yep.
Nothing "technological" about sensors has made 35mm less desirable, and nothing ever will. Anything that can improve smaller sensors will ALSO improve bigger ones, and the optical advantage of a larger format will never go away. With APS-C, you're asking the lens to resolve the same details at 42.25% of the size the lens has to resolve them at on a FF dSLR, a big disadvantage.
Yep.
Pentax can find a "FF niche" as easily as they can find an "APS-C niche." Think about a FF dSLR with a 100% coverage, 95% magnification viewfinder, for example. Combine that with the excellent Pentax backward compatibility and you've got something with an instant advantage over Nikon and Canon (and Sony for that matter). Add your Pentax weather and dust sealing and a rugged but affordable body, and you're off to the races.
I couldn't agree more.
--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b

 
It will be suicidal for Pentax NOT to develop a 35mm sensor dSLR. Their enthusiast base will continue to erode until they're done with if they don't.
Pentax is small and poor company with poor engineers which, at the time now, simply cannot make lenses good enough to match the quality of the good Sony or Kodak FF sensors that could be used in FF DSLR. Very simple.

Pentax has never been up to Canon and Nikon quality. C and N were better and more expensive! AF speed, AF accuracy, shooting speed, lens quality, flash... P was cheaper and not so good, always.

Beside all that, I would be happy to buy FF camera so I can use my old (and not so old) Pentax lenses.

I will never ever again buy anything Pentax if I dont see the FF in the product timeline in near future.
What a load of rubbish you do talk.
--
Marc Sabatella wrote:

You are an idiot, an evil person, and you deserve all the bad things that will ever happen to you in life. That about sums it up; I expect to have nothing else to say.
--
Lance B
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b

 
I think Hoya are a more market savvy company and will kick pentax in the direction required whether they want to go there or not.

They have already shown there willingness to publicly shame Pentax when their stupidity needs pruning.
I missed that. Can you point us to a link?

I have the impression that Hoya has been silent about Pentax's quality-control problem.
Nothing todo with QC what gave you that impression .??
Pentax fighting Hoya's approaches on various fronts including the resignation of their president Fumio Urano
Additionally Pentax's board members have agreed to resign after the Hoya takeover goes through.
Joe
--
My PPG

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTIST&subSection=1471087&subSubSection=0&language=EN
My Photo Stream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/awaldram/
 
I'm ok with the K-7 grip and viewfinder though.
And I'm not its to small for use with proper lens (f2.8 150mm + ).
Guess its ok with those toy limiteds :)
For big gear machos there's always the grip. ;-) Seriously... with the grip longer lenses balance very nicely.

Wim

--
Belgium, GMT+1

 
Some folks around here just don't want to believe it. Pentax has been asked numerous times, by lots of interviewers, and every time they have said 24x36 is not in their future.

How much clearer can you get?
Pentax have not lowered the back focus distance on there DA series lens which would make them APS-c forever with higher IQ and lower price.

Yep pentax could not be any clearer that FF is in their future !!!!

--
My PPG

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTIST&subSection=1471087&subSubSection=0&language=EN
My Photo Stream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/awaldram/
 
It will be suicidal for Pentax NOT to develop a 35mm sensor dSLR. Their enthusiast base will continue to erode until they're done with if they don't.
Pentax is small and poor company with poor engineers which, at the time now, simply cannot make lenses good enough to match the quality of the good Sony or Kodak FF sensors that could be used in FF DSLR. Very simple.
Your talkin out your Butt !!!

APS-c requires higher resolving r glass than FF due to the smaller image circle just as FF requires more resolution than MF.
Pentax has never been up to Canon and Nikon quality. C and N were better and more expensive! AF speed, AF accuracy, shooting speed, lens quality, flash... P was cheaper and not so good, always.
You played your cards showed your lack of technical knowledge and now are making yourself look silly.
Pentax has produced some of the best bodies and glass the world has ever seen.

Not to say Cannon and Nikon have not also had their moments and I'm sure in the future Sony will have theirs..
Beside all that, I would be happy to buy FF camera so I can use my old (and not so old) Pentax lenses.

I will never ever again buy anything Pentax if I dont see the FF in the product timeline in near future.
How about never posting in the forum again either .??

Heres hoping.
--
Marc Sabatella wrote:

You are an idiot, an evil person, and you deserve all the bad things that will ever happen to you in life. That about sums it up; I expect to have nothing else to say.
--
My PPG

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTIST&subSection=1471087&subSubSection=0&language=EN
My Photo Stream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/awaldram/
 
I'm ok with the K-7 grip and viewfinder though.
And I'm not its to small for use with proper lens (f2.8 150mm + ).
Guess its ok with those toy limiteds :)
For big gear machos there's always the grip. ;-) Seriously... with the grip longer lenses balance very nicely.
Yes it was a bit tongue in cheek, but size was a consideration when I decided to skip the k-7.

Pentax generated a whole new user with the success of the k10d, This user is not so interested in small and cute.

Rather we prefer heft and functionality.
Wim

--
Belgium, GMT+1

--
My PPG

http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/home#section=ARTIST&subSection=1471087&subSubSection=0&language=EN
My Photo Stream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/awaldram/
 
It will be suicidal for Pentax NOT to develop a 35mm sensor dSLR. Their enthusiast base will continue to erode until they're done with if they don't.
Unfortunately, nothing could possibly be further from the truth. While it is a worry, there is still a chance that Pentax can achieve something in the MF market and it is not impossible to see something happening, although the rewards would be quite limited in such a narrow market. With FF, it would be suicidal to try.

It will be hard to think of any chance, as Pentax is so far behind in lenses, in services and support (that pros require), in its channels and reputation in FF cameras. Pentax will need a breathrough technology that is exclusive to Pentax to attract buyers, but how can any new technology not be available to Nikon and Canon, or to Sony first. Just because many people here keep making noises, probably because they have some of the few FF capable lenses, it is not going to happen. No chance whatsoever, unless Hoya is thinking self-destruct. I think not. Hoya is almostly certainly going to release better APS-C cameras to provide something better as an upgrade path for the large (to Pentax) number of new K-x owners and K-7 owners.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top