new ZS3, can't see LCD, see my reflection in sunlight????

I've never had a camera without a viewfinder before. I got the ZS3 today and in certain angles of sunlight all I see is my own reflection. Holding my hand over the LCD makes no difference, so I doubt those little screen shades will work. I'm stunned. Please tell me this isn't just the way they are? I can't use this camera outdoors in sunlight like that, and I shoot mostly outdoors in sunlight. Am I doing something wrong, is this a problem with the ZS3 and are there any cameras in the class (ZS7, Canon 210, etc, that don't have this problem?) This is supposed to be a travel camera for outdoors photography, surely there is some camera in this class that you can actually use iin sunlight.

See

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=35217466

Took my ZS outside after reading your post and tried to replicate your situation. The only way I was able to completely not see what was on the LCD, was if I held the camera so that the LCD was reflecting the sun directly. I think this is going to be a problem for any camera without a viewfinder. That being said, if I moved it just at a slight angle from the sun, I could start seeing pretty clearly what was in the LCD. You can try putting the LCD on power mode, but you are still going to have problems viewing the screen in straight-on sunlight. Probably, any camera will do that. Even my iphone did that when I angled it directly into the sun.

The previous poster suggested one alternative. I have been using the Hoodloupe ( http://www.hoodmanusa.com/products.asp?dept=1017 ) which really helps with composition, even when the sun is not at that direct angle. A third alternative, that is free, is learning how to shoot without the sun always being directly perpendicular (?) to the LCD.

The way I see it, 95% or more of the time, I am able to get a great shot without the sun directly being reflected in my LCD. For that few percent that I just have to have a particular shot with the sun directly behind me, I use the Hoodman. Of course, your other alternative is to buy a camera with a viewfinder, which many people prefer.

Hope this helps. You got a great little camera there. I hope it works out for you.
Daniel
--
http://danielsonkin.smugmug.com/

I'm going to look into that hood. I turned in a circle and about a 1/4 of the turn I saw my reflection, so it wasn't just a particular angle. I'm going to take it out again, maybe it was just that particular angle of the sun at that moment. I'm glad at least there are some gadgets that may help. The manual said hold your hand over the LCD which didn't help. I was so disappointed! Thanks for the encouraging tips.

Same disaster with my LX3 screen. Maybe wearing a black shirt and a black face mask may help stop some reflections, but there's other ways. Maybe the old boys with plate cameras had the right idea with a black cloth to throw over camera and head to view the ground glass screen.

I stuck a BoxWave anti-glare filter on my LX3 and it does help quite a bit. Not perfect as it does add a sort of graininess to the screen but it makes it far easier to frame as the reflections are not a problem now.

http://www.boxwave.com/products/cleartouch/cleartouch-panasonic-digital-camera-screen-protector.htm

Others prefer the ClearViewer from Gary, this is a "hold to the face" type viewer and adds a little bulk to the camera.

http://clearviewer.com/Products.html but check with him about ZS3 model availability.

Regards........... Guy

Old cheaper trick. Requires a minimum of DIY.



here
http://www.adorama.com/Als/ProductPage/VRSV.html
$3.49 or google for less



Panasonic TZ7 Tips

http://tz7tips.spaces.live.com/blog/

The Boxwave anti-glare works very well, and it also protects the LCD. I agree that it makes the LCD not quite as vivid, but at least you can see what you're shooting. Others swear by the Clearview.

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Liz

Well at least there are some possible solutions. Hard to believe they just won't make a camera like this with a viewfinder anymore. I'll look into both the solutions you have suggested. Thanks.

Sorry if this is a trivial suggestion, but have you tried changing the LCD Mode to Power LCD? You can do this in the Setup menu and it makes world of difference.

Agree totally with Guy. This topic comes up every month with much the same information being repeated over and over.

Pana LCD's are highly reflective in certain conditions - low sun, harsh contrasty light and when surrounded by sand, sea, glass, white or any reflecive surfaces or at altitude. This has nothing to do with the situation when bright overhead sun shines directly onto the LCD and blanks it out - that's an old problem, largely overcome now with brightness boost.

The good news is that Pana have finally kicked into line behind other maunufacturers with an 'anti-glare' coating on the TZ10 for the first time. In the meantime, the Boxwave offers a pretty good compromise and worth trying out for so few dollars.

Hope that helps to alleviate your understandable despair - I still despair on occasions even with a Boxwave, but it is an improvement.

Nick

If reflections are the only issue, the anti-glare screens may be all you need, though they supposedly reduce the sharpness or resolution a bit.

I developed the Clearviewer for the LX3 initially, but the ZS3 and similar models have issues which may even make it more useful for them...that long zoom demands that the camera be held relatively still, and unless your eyesight is good enough to see the screen clearly while a few inches away, you lose stability AND the ability to see the subject's small details to get the shot you want.

I recently got a ZS3, and using it has confirmed what I thought...I don't see how anyone uses one effectively without it. Last week it went on its first real 'outing' to Yosemite, and just one example would be the bird in a meadow I wanted to get a shot of. It was far enough away to need full zoom, and would have been easy with my FZ50, but just finding it using the ZS3's LCD was hard enough, let alone trying to spot a decent 'pose'. Of course this was an experiment, so I just flipped the Clearviewer up into place and got the shot, but without that, it would have been either 'point, squint, and hope, or 'take some wide angle shots and figure you can crop later if one is decent.

The Hoodman works on the same principle, but you have to carry it with you and hold it up to the LCD whenever you use it; they have been around for many years, and the above is the reason I never saw them as being all that useful. (for DSLR users, a different story, as they're already carrying the bulk, and just use them for reviewing photos).

If you can see the screen and details great when there aren't reflections and you're out in bright light, then the anti-glare screens should do it; if not, consider the alternatives that handle the other issues.
--
Gary
Photo albums: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse

I've had this problem with the TZ3, TZ5 and now with my new ZS7. Even with the power lcd mode turned on, there are times when all I see is my reflection. The ZS7's lcd is a little better, but still annoying at times. I've tried the Boxwave anti-glare sheets, but found that over time, the heat & humidity down here in Louisiana causes them to bubble and come off too easily. I finally found something that works well....the anti-glare sheet I bought from Apple for my iphone. I did have to cut it down to fit the camera, but it works great. It's a bit thicker which makes it extremely easy to apply and so far it stays put even in the heat. It's Power Support brand anti-glare film set for iphone 3G/3GS; I bought directly from Apple.com.
--
Wendy
http://public.fotki.com/shadeaux/

People have been using the TZ1 to TZ 7 and now to TZ10 with the reflective LCD screens and produced numerous excellent shots in beaches-deserts-snows and all forms of landscape and even from airborne sky diving stunts and from aircrafts in open spaces!
Nothing is perfect in life and nothing is perfect in any objects!

You just need a little bit of patience and practice -would eventually give you fantastic results.
No add on or clips on are necessary on LCD screens
Stop complaining and keep practising with the camera

Please note swithing on the Power LCD mode would drain the precious battery during travelling.
minzaw













--
http://g4.img-
dpreview.com/160BE6E882F94538B922E6C016E9B354.
jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/myanmarmauk

Clarivue (.com) also makes anti-glare (and regular) screen protectors. Very easy to install, cleanable, re-usable. Plus you get 2 for about the same price as one Boxwave.

minzaw said:

People have been using the TZ1 to TZ 7 and now to TZ10 with the reflective LCD screens and produced numerous excellent shots in beaches-deserts-snows and all forms of landscape and even from airborne sky diving stunts and from aircrafts in open spaces!
Nothing is perfect in life and nothing is perfect in any objects!

You just need a little bit of patience and practice -would eventually give you fantastic results.
No add on or clips on are necessary on LCD screens
Stop complaining and keep practising with the camera

Please note swithing on the Power LCD mode would drain the precious battery during travelling.

Click to expand...

This is nonsense. I can take my LX3 out with no LCD at all (shut off), and keep it at a relatively wide angle and point it generally where I want it, and get some photos I really like, but does that mean I never want to or need to see what I'm shooting? Perhaps that's your style of shooting, and you're entirely welcome to it, but don't start telling others how they need to take photos.

Patience and practice will make people "learn" to be able to see the LCD? I'm sure the opthamology profession would like to know more about this.

Maybe it's like a comment I saw over in the Canon forum, from a user who claimed he could see just great under all conditons, he didn't know why people were complaining. Then he said "even out in bright sunlight I can usually make out enough to get the shot". So, therefore "seeing great" is the same as "making out enough to get the shot". Usually.

Or because there are some really nice photos that have been taken with LCD-only cameras (many of them cropped out because the horizon was way off, or other issues they couldn't see), we should all just write off all the shots they didn't get?

Let's say you're walking along the trail and a bird lands nearby; you smoothly move the camera up and run it to full zoom, hoping to get a shot before he flits off, then you squint and strain trying to see enough so you can tell if that's a bird or a leaf on the LCD, and if it's focused on whatever that is, and as he notices the lens, off he flies and you missed your shot. Smiles and moments are fleeting too, and a photo taken a second late can make all the difference in the world.

Some of us like to compose our shots as we shoot, not behind a computer. Some like to have a specific subject in focus, not necessarily what the camera picks the first time. Some might want to shoot directly into a setting sun and see what they're shooting and how it's exposed. Some like level horizons, and if you've ever shot 16:9 and gotten a crooked horizon, you know how severely you have to crop to clean it up. Some want to catch a smile instead of hoping they're catching a smile. Some can see clearly at 4" away, some can't. Some use camera phones and are happy with it, and some aren't.

If this sounds a little impatient, it's because I've heard it too many times before, and it's a very narrow-minded view that basically says "this is how I shoot, I'm happy with it, and you can learn to do it too."

I may be happy with point and hope for candid street shooting, because there it makes sense; but that's only one small part of photography, and there's nothing wrong with wanting to be able to see what you're shooting, clearly and easily. To say someone can "learn" to see what they can't physically see, and should just quit complaining and do it like you do it is pretty presumptious.
--
Gary

This is why P&S are no substitute for a DSLR. Even though I really like my LX3, I always feel much more confident using the D300. The hoodman is probably the best performing solution to the reflection and washout problem with LCD sceens, though its bulk is a bother.

Different people do things very differently

with respect to LCD and ambient sun I would say no more than 5% of people use LCD hoods/adapters/skin/clearview.....??
The rest 95% still managed to do WITHOUT any adaptors on LCD screens

The point here is the the camera is the same with it's descriptive physical specifications
It is the USER issue rather than camera issue!

With respect to standard statistical significance and numbers in a normal distribution/population , 2+ - standard devition lies within the 95.54% of the norm

minzaw

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http://g3.img-
dpreview.com/3D00EBB8906742D6A3302803003A3D8
2.jpg

http://www.flickr.com/photos/myanmarmauk

minzaw said:

Different people do things very differently

with respect to LCD and ambient sun I would say no more than 5% of people use LCD hoods/adapters/skin/clearview.....??
The rest 95% still managed to do WITHOUT any adaptors on LCD screens

Click to expand...

To 'do' what? Shoot blind? Take mediocre photo's? Clueless about framing?

How can you possibly know how many good shots have been missed because the user was unable to frame the shot using the LCD?

In your earlier post you implied fantastic shots were obtained in difficult lighting without the use of hoods, films etc - how can you know for sure that these shots were obtained by good photographers not/using devices to improve the visibility of the LCD? Maybe they are good/ shots because they did use LCD devices. We simply don't know.

Your personal experiences are welcome, obviously LCD's work for you - that's good. But be careful about speaking on behalf of others.

Nick

Thanks all for the replies and suggestions. I went out and practiced yesterday and my eye is getting used to the LCD a bit though it's just not as easy to see what your framing in the shot(animal in distance you want to zoom in for example) the same way you can with a viewfinder. I don't really have too many problems seeing the LCD in sunlight(which by the way is beautiful when you can see it clearly) enough to at least get a shot. The shot I want is another matter. It's really the mirror like effect in certain lighting that's driving me crazy and makes shooting impossible. I will try you suggestions, but since I bought the camera from Costco and it's an easy return, I wanted to know if they have improved this feature enough with the ZS7 to make a difference, or if the Canon sx210 has similar problems or is an improvement. I did some comparative test shots yesterday with my old Canon and the Zs3, I'll print them today and compare. What it seems from looking at them with the LCD is that my old Canon has colors more true to life but the Panasonic colors seem more bright and vivid, sometimes more dramatic as in sunsets, but not necessarily as true to reality. We'll see what they look like printed, and I'll report back. (why am I printing instead of looking on the computer? It's how I still enjoy most of my pictures, I still like photo albums to share with friends and printing pictures to have on bookshelves and on walls if they are good enough. I have found that because of the back lighting on a computer that a picture sometimes looks great on the screen but not so good when printed. I use the computer for storing pictures and sending to friends, but not for really viewing my pictures. Old fashioned I guess.)

Minzaw said:

...You just need a little bit of patience and practice -would eventually give you fantastic results. Noo add on or clips on are necessary on LCD screens. Stop complaining and keep practising with the camera...

Click to expand...

Practice may work in smoggy cities 50 degrees or more from the equator. But when you are at around 30 degrees or less, there is a lot more light, and no amount of practice is going to help you see the subject clearly in the LX3's mirror-finish LCD when you are lit by the full sun.

Panasonic realise this, and make a bog-standard optional OVF for an extortionate price - nearly half the price of the camera itself - if you can find one. For some reason, although you can get batteries for the LX3 considerably cheaper than the Panasonic ones, no one seems to make a cheaper OVF for it, though single use film cameras with OVFs are on sale for 10 or 20 dollars.

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Cyril