Remember the GOOD OLD DAYS when milsuper

rovingtim said:

MissSophie - she who said the E3 was perfect for pro work ... gone. Not so perfect, eh?

setaside2 - the knowedgeable enthusiastic camera salesmen who got laid off when Oly culled their salepeople.

Louis Dobson - strangely never sold his D3 to regain the joys of the Oly that he assured us it was just as competitive ...

Remember when Mark Humpage used to gush about oly? He still shoots with one but where did the gushing go?

Jono Slack ... loved the E1 ... a real photographer's camera ... but nothing followed it up.

A whole herd of pro and serious shooters ... most can be found on the Nikon forums ... though quite a number are reappearing on the m4/3rds site if you want to say hi.

Let's thank the fanboys.

Instead of helping Oly find a way to meet the needs of shooters, the fanboys wisely suggested to everyone who complained that they should simply buy a different system.

And so it was.

The only ones left are those happy to live within Oly's limitations ... as well as those too ignorant to know they are there.

Now everyone is happy. Right?

Click to expand...

You can add me to the list of those who have moved over to the micro4/3 forum. I'm still shooting with 4/3 glass at the moment, but appreciating the smaller form of the new generation of cameras.

For those nostalgic about the "Olympus color" discussions, or in body IS vs lens based, those can all still be had!

--
Veo el mundo: http://www.veoelmundo.com my blog about travel photography

TripShared: http://www.tripshared.com see the world through the eyes of your friends

Boggis the cat said:

Sergey_Green said:

My view is that many of the "limitations" of 4/3 that the Canon and Nikon users like to harp on are not that important.

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All you have to say is 'to me' at the end and you'd be right. Otherwise you're inviting all the shooters who find Oly limitations a serious problem to respond.

Sergey_Green said:

If you shoot a lot of telephoto, as I tend to, then the larger formats have the DOF disadvantage -- too shallow a DOF.

Click to expand...

At far as DoF is concerned, this is not true.

However, if you mean that you are carrying smaller lenses ... especially when shooting long ... then again it might be true for you.

Then Sergey says:

Sergey_Green said:

I believe this is not the first time you open this link, and I can throw in plenty. But it does start sounding like a broken record after a while. No matter what someone posts or does, you will always be repeating the same tune, and with no substance to it.

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Granted, I don't know the history between you two, but this is quite a put down ... pretty much guaranteed to kick something off. However, he is not wrong that Boggis is wrong about DoF as all one has to do is stop down when using a larger system.

Then Larry Lynch says:

Sergey_Green said:

You are the worst offender for showing us what we could do, with lenses we cant use...

Click to expand...

Sergey_Green said:

idiot!

Click to expand...

Responding to Sergey's tone I would think ... but now we're well in the territory of ignoring the factual part of the argument which is 4/3rds doesn't have a DoF advantage over larger systems ... which is why Sergey posted the images. Not to show that he can use non Oly lenses ... but as proof of his argument.

Sins everywhere; when does the atonement begin?

Good of you to visit.

I'd be interested in how many people still drop by for a look even though they have moved over to other systems.

rovingtim said:

Good of you to visit.

Click to expand...

Old habits are hard to break!

rovingtim said:

I'd be interested in how many people still drop by for a look even though they have moved over to other systems.

Click to expand...

I guess I don't really see micro 4/3 as a different system - more as the next logical evolution of the system I've been using.

--
Veo el mundo: http://www.veoelmundo.com my blog about travel photography

TripShared: http://www.tripshared.com see the world through the eyes of your friends

Some of us stay with it because we're more interested in the results than the spec sheet. I look at the typical shots posted in other forums, and they're missing something. A bit of sharpness, a bit of vibrancy, the C/N/S shots in general just aren't quite as alive. Pentax is very close.

Come to think of it, there were more pro wannabes than pros, and they moved on, too. Don't let the doorknob... I think of those types as 'professional money spenders'.

Jono moved on to Leica, which is the next logical step if you're into fine optics and razor sharp renditions. Wish I had the budget, but I'll settle for Leica M on the Pen.

This isn't a pro system. It's more like an affordable and flexible Leica system. And like Leica, part of the reason to own it can't be found on a spec sheet. It can only be found in the subtle details of the results. Comparing Oly to Leica is sort of like comparing Lotus to Ferrari. Equally impractical for general use, similar results, better value. You have to be rich to own a Ferrari, whereas you just have to be a bit crazy to own a Lotus. (proud owner of a '90 Esprit, former owner of an 84 308GTSi that ate me up with maintenance costs)

If that makes me stupid, then ignorance is bliss.

rovingtim said:

MissSophie - she who said the E3 was perfect for pro work ... gone. Not so perfect, eh?

setaside2 - the knowedgeable enthusiastic camera salesmen who got laid off when Oly culled their salepeople.

Louis Dobson - strangely never sold his D3 to regain the joys of the Oly that he assured us it was just as competitive ...

Remember when Mark Humpage used to gush about oly? He still shoots with one but where did the gushing go?

Jono Slack ... loved the E1 ... a real photographer's camera ... but nothing followed it up.

A whole herd of pro and serious shooters ... most can be found on the Nikon forums ... though quite a number are reappearing on the m4/3rds site if you want to say hi.

Let's thank the fanboys.

Instead of helping Oly find a way to meet the needs of shooters, the fanboys wisely suggested to everyone who complained that they should simply buy a different system.

And so it was.

The only ones left are those happy to live within Oly's limitations ... as well as those too ignorant to know they are there.

Now everyone is happy. Right?

Click to expand...

The Oly fanboys on this board, through sarcasm and blatant insults, have alienated any true Olympus customer with any common sense or criticism about the state of their brand of choice.

Add me to the list. Not for the sole reason of some of the members here, although I do laugh quite a bit when I see the next in the thousand "dream E-5" or "e-5 is coming and will rox!" thread for a system that has been essentially dead for a year.

Oly alienated me. As I have a growing photography business and chose a brand that cannot grow with it. I spend too much time making up for Olympus shortcomings, and to optimize my time I need to move on to a manufacturer that moves with the current pace of imaging quality technology, not bells and whistles like in-camera imaging filters.

I'm researching how to make this move now, but I still stop in here, because I do love what Olympus has done for me (I have been with them for 8 years, and have spend nearly $12k on their brand, and have single-handedly influenced at least 6 people to adopt 4/3s) and I really want to come here one morning and see a whole new flood of topics on a new flagship announcement, but it's obvious to anyone with common sense that it's not going to happen anytime soon, and if it does, it'll most likely be the last from 4/3s.

Yes, the e5 (if it is announced) will rock us all, but a month later it will be eclipsed by other brands and it will remain Oly's flagship for another 3 years, when everyone else is making improvements, not just because they can, but because it serves the needs of growing customers. I got a laugh out of pics on my recently purchased Canon s90 compact, that has less noise than my "state-of-the-art" Olympus e-30-SLR.

I will not invest in m4/3, because I do not have faith in the Olympus brand anymore.

I also highly enjoy seeing the talent on here and what they do with the lenses I have too. A lot of creative people on here, I just wish some weren't so blindly following their brand... well I guess that's okay, but some people are just mean and sarcastic to anyone with an ounce of criticism about it and it's just embarrassing.

Anyways, I'll be making the switch this summer, and will no longer be a daily lurker here. It sucks, because Olympus has done well for me and helped me be successful, but as I become more professional, I demand more. Olympus is not a professional brand. They cannot keep up with the flow of technology on a regular basis.

You can check my website to see examples of how well Olympus has done for me.

From my first C4000 all the way to my e-30, I have built this website on Olympus Cameras, and it has become one of the most popular tourism and photography websites in New York. Right now I don't have the time to deal with Olympus image quality issues, or want to buy 2 year old bodies when I need a backup. I have to move on, and it is sad, but a reality for many growing Oly users.

Taken with the C-4000:
http://nyfalls.com/reynolds.html

Taken with the C-8080:
http://www.nyfalls.com/watkinsglensp.html

Taken with the e-510:
http://www.nyfalls.com/niagara/niagara-devils-hole.html

Taken with the e-30:
http://www.nyfalls.com/mt-hope-cemetery.html

--
Upstate NY Waterfalls and Photography
My Galleries: http://www.nyfalls.com
My Niagara Falls Gallery: http://www.nyfalls.com/niagara/niagara-main.html

...its users that argue that Oly has no limitations but its operator that earn that title.

Not everyone needs to research, compare, mull and yes sometimes whine( like me),
over limitations.

Some users here came to the conclusion very quickly that for what they do most of the time, and what is important to them as a user, Oly is the best.....they don't stare at little noise crops, etc.....I don't think they are ignorant, they just know what they like straight away.

I really think its the legacy Pro users that have most angst and only legitimate gripe with the "corporation", as they can see the plusses, bought into the system (to earn a living) but Oly has failed to correct some pretty "low hanging" negatives for them in a timely manner.

For the hobby shooters here, it really is all good but of course we all would like more...human nature.

Cheers

--
Best Regards;
L. John K.

The best of luck in your selection of new equipment.

--
Good Shooting,

English Bob

TrapperJohn said:

Some of us stay with it because we're more interested in the results than the spec sheet. I look at the typical shots posted in other forums, and they're missing something. A bit of sharpness, a bit of vibrancy, the C/N/S shots in general just aren't quite as alive. Pentax is very close.

Come to think of it, there were more pro wannabes than pros, and they moved on, too. Don't let the doorknob... I think of those types as 'professional money spenders'.

Jono moved on to Leica, which is the next logical step if you're into fine optics and razor sharp renditions. Wish I had the budget, but I'll settle for Leica M on the Pen.

This isn't a pro system. It's more like an affordable and flexible Leica system. And like Leica, part of the reason to own it can't be found on a spec sheet. It can only be found in the subtle details of the results. Comparing Oly to Leica is sort of like comparing Lotus to Ferrari. Equally impractical for general use, similar results, better value. You have to be rich to own a Ferrari, whereas you just have to be a bit crazy to own a Lotus. (proud owner of a '90 Esprit, former owner of an 84 308GTSi that ate me up with maintenance costs)

If that makes me stupid, then ignorance is bliss.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure if your response was to my post, but for me the benefit of the Olympus system was its size. With micro4/3 I think you can achieve essentially the same image quality in a package that is much smaller. That's why its the next logical step... for me.

I now have a camera that I have with me much more, and fell less intrusive using.

Other photographers have different needs, preferences and bank accounts.

--
Veo el mundo: http://www.veoelmundo.com by blog about travel photography

TripShared: http://www.tripshared.com see the world through the eyes of your friends

rovingtim said:

Responding to Sergey's tone I would think ... but now we're well in the territory of ignoring the factual part of the argument which is 4/3rds doesn't have a DoF advantage over larger systems ... which is why Sergey posted the images. Not to show that he can use non Oly lenses ... but as proof of his argument.

Sins everywhere; when does the atonement begin?

Click to expand...

There is no argument... 4:3 cameras cannot achieve the same DOF effect as you can achieve with a 35mm frame camera.. Its a fact, we know it, but Sergey points it out, over, and over, and over, and over... a few times a week, we, who use Olympus cameras and lenses dont need it pointed out, we really, really dont.. really..

I dont know about anyone else, but I get really tired of a pedant, that just comes into the forum to TEACH us the ERROR OF OUR WAYS, and why we should have gone with a 35mm frame camera...

Im pretty sure anyone who wants and can afford a 35mm frame camera has bought one, or is saving for one, or has plans to save for one... I wouldn't mind having the big Nikon myself, but I have enough cameras already.

I earn all of my disposable income from photography.. I choose to do it with 4:3 cameras, and APSC cameras.. I dont use film any more..

I dont feel that I, or any other member of this forum need the pedantic ravings of Sergey, or anyone like him, to tell me, (or us) what idiotic fools we are to be playing with our little toy cameras instead of using what he (or they) use.

There will be no "confessional" where I will ask for forgiveness from anyone who just comes to be a PITA.

So, no "atonement"
--
Larry In Mystic Connecticut, USA
Equine Event shooter
Sometimes Wildlife shooter
Sometimes 'Street' Shooter

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory..

Unless otherwise stated ALL images posted by me are copyright:
© Lasting Imagery
© Larry The Camera Guy
© Equinepix
if you use them in any way without my permission I will NOT be a 'Happy Camper'.

...

LJohnK said:

Some users here came to the conclusion very quickly that for what they do most of the time, and what is important to them as a user, Oly is the best.....they don't stare at little noise crops, etc.....I don't think they are ignorant, they just know what they like straight away.

I really think its the legacy Pro users that have most angst and only legitimate gripe with the "corporation", as they can see the plusses, bought into the system (to earn a living) but Oly has failed to correct some pretty "low hanging" negatives for them in a timely manner.

Click to expand...

I've earned probably 10 to 20x my investment in Oly gear over the years, so no complaint there — but teaching is my bread-and-butter and I have been happy to work within the limits of my E-1 and E-330.

If I needed to earn my food and shelter solely through my camera gear, I cannot see Olympus as being my camera line of choice. As you say, the "low hanging" negatives have not been corrected in a timely manner — chiefly (for me) the low light noise and AF performance.
--
Barry

Holgs said:

I'm not sure if your response was to my post, but for me the benefit of the Olympus system was its size.

Click to expand...

Could not agree with you more. Although I did take my Nikon backpack into the Alps several times, I can not even begin telling you how I often wished it was lighter.

Holgs said:

With micro4/3 I think you can achieve essentially the same image quality in a package that is much smaller. That's why its the next logical step... for me.

Click to expand...

If what you photograph does not move. I would still pick the OVF over the EVF.

Holgs said:

I now have a camera that I have with me much more, and fell less intrusive using.

Click to expand...

I used to have one more often with me. The thing is I do not shoot everything I see, and more often than not I plan my trips in advance. I like to hold the camera and shoot with it, but I hate to carry it. So smaller can be better as well.

Holgs said:

Other photographers have different needs, preferences and bank accounts.

Click to expand...

You are not alone .

--
- sergey

I truly hope that Olympus isn't running it's company based on this forum and what people here think. I seriously doubt they are.

I still use my E3 to make saleable prints, and it works very well for that purpose. I also use my E-P2 to take great quality personal family stuff, and it works well for that purpose.

Olympus is providing great tools for people to go out and take pictures. It may not contain all of the elements that some photographers are looking for(full frame), but at the end of the day you can get some darn nice images with Olympus equipment.

I personally think you are better than that to call people on a forum out like that. I know it was intended to be funny but it came across a little smug.

I suspect I'm guilty of smugness.

And as I said, I have no problem with people happily enjoying and/or using their equipment. I'm eyeing m4/3rds as well, especially after the last firmware update.

Micro 4/3's is quite an experience. It's very satisfying to be able to carry a very small camera and get E-3 like results.

And some nice movie abilities to boot.

If you go with it I'd recommend that sweet, E3 like viewfinder. Very useful.

If Olympus could get the speed up to DSLR standards I think it really could be a game changer.

Larry Lynch said:

Larry Lynch wrote:

I dont know about anyone else, but I get really tired of a pedant, that just comes into the forum to TEACH us the ERROR OF OUR WAYS, and why we should have gone with a 35mm frame camera...

Click to expand...

...I don't know who you are referring to, because I have never said, or even so much as implied, that you "should have gone with a 35mm frame camera". But, for sure I have corrected many on making incorrect statements about 135:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=29000993

He quite clearly stated on numerous occasions that he actually admired many aspects of E-system and posted here only to correct some of the nuttier misinformation written here about full-frame cameras.

The only poster here that I implied would be better off with 135 was Louis Dobson (not that there weren't others, but he was the only one I said it to), and I think we all know how that turned out.

I went to a show and tried the EP2 with viewfinder ... really really nice. I'm a convert.

rovingtim said:

I was intending (petulantly, admittedly) to insult the fanboys.

If I insult everyone, I insult myself.

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feel insulted

rovingtim said:

I live within the limitations of Oly as does many others. I have no problem with people knowingly choosing Oly with all its limitations. Its an interesting photographic challenge.

Click to expand...

to be kind, one could talk about the advantages, its not a good feeling to be continually on the backside curve of the disadvantages. Problem is that in just 'thinking positive you find yourself fighting it out that there are any, to a bunch of losers that just wont let go of this place

i mean, just wtf is the attraction to these people ?

rovingtim said:

What gets under my skin is when people here dress up the limitations as no limitation and then vehemently attack those who point out the limitations.

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attack who, themselves ? do you have any concept that this goes both ways, that if you push people eventually they push back

rovingtim said:

This forum would be much more interesting if, for exmaple, the DoF threads were something along the lines of how to create excellent images using DoF separation within the limitations of a 4/3rds sensor rather than pretending there is no DoF disadvantage (because of SHG lenses) or ignorantly proclaiming that deeper DoF can be obtained with 4/3rds.

Click to expand...

have you figured out yet how impossible that is here, take a look around at this thread, hows it working out so far ? like it ? who contributed the best and worst, is there a score, any red cards ?

rovingtim said:

Instead people fight and fight their ignorant positions and have basically blown off most of the intelligent visitors we used to get here.

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ive said this before and it was thought a joke, one day all that will be left here will be a bunch of nikon users arguing just how much better their cameras are than the used to be olympus four thirds...

--
ʎǝlıɹ

plɹoʍ ǝɥʇ ɟo doʇ uo ǝɹɐ ǝʍ 'ɐılɐɹʇsnɐ uı

You can switch to manual model and see what a picture is going to look like, and also do that through movie mode. Live histogram. That is just amazing.

more of a running commentary than a bunch of impossible questions Tim

--
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