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G10=$599 G2=$799.95 Is that what you were expecting?

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mpgxsvcd

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G10=$599 G2=$799.95 Is that what you were expecting? The G10 looks to be competitive with the EPL1 at $599. However, it doesn't have the EPL1's size advantage and it doesn't have the flip out LCD and touch screen advantage of the G2.

I also still think the GF1 at about $800 new is the better deal if the optical viewfinder and flip out LCD are not important to you.

Isn't the whole point of m4/3s that it is smaller than the competition? I still fail to see how these larger G10 and G2 models are going to appeal to a mass market.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1004/10041902panagseriesprice.asp

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
Those prices seem to be for kits with the new 14-42 lens, and of course they include a built-in EVF. That makes them good deals for people who want an EVF. Others who prefer greater compactness by omitting the built-in EVF will prefer other options like the E-PL1 and E-P2 of course.

We should all be fairly happy with these added options, and with the recent downward trend in Micro Four Thirds pricing.
 
Yeah, downward pricing is good for all of us.

In terms of the evf, having lived now for little while with the EV-2 for the E-PL1, I don't think the world really divides so neatly into those who want it and those who don't. I actually really like not having one on the camera most of the time, but having one available for those bright sunlight situations where you're pretty much flying blind without it. I've done a fair amount of outdoor shooting with it, but I've done a whole lot more shooting since I got it withOUT it. I like the smaller form factor most of the time and don't mind the protrusion on the top of the camera when it serves a purpose. I used to be sort of a for it / agin it kind of guy. But I think I like the middle ground. So I wouldn't say (any longer) that the G-1,2,10,H1 are for people who like viewfinders and cameras like the GF-1 and E-2 and E-PL1 are for people who don't. I think the G-1,2,10, etc are for people who like shooting with their eye up to the camera ALL THE TIME and the others are equally good options for those who like shooting that way SOMEtimes.

-Ray
 
The modifications made to create the G2 are interesting but how does it compare to a Canon T2i with an 18-55mm lens for only $100 more.

The size and weight of a G2 with 14-42mm compared to the Canon with the 18-55mm are very similar, but the Canon has a larger sensor (18.7mp vs 12.1mp) better low light capability and access to Canon's hugh selection of lens.

I have always tried to keep my face and hands off the screen so that my natural body oils don't coat the lens and make it harder to read. Therefore, I personally really don't understand the advantage of the touch screen, nor desire it.

At this point the canon at $100 more than the G2 seems to be a smarter purchase. I believe that the m4/3 products should be smaller, lighter and cost less than DSLR. Of course my GF1 w/20mm lens also isn't low cost but I bought it anyway...LOL

Jack
Escondido, CA
 
Price is about what I expected. I do hope, though that the G2 will be available without the lens. I have a G1 and would prefer to buy body only and use my existing 14-45.
 
mpgxsvcd said:
G10=$599 G2=$799.95 Is that what you were expecting? The G10 looks to be competitive with the EPL1 at $599. However, it doesn't have the EPL1's size advantage and it doesn't have the flip out LCD and touch screen advantage of the G2.

I also still think the GF1 at about $800 new is the better deal if the optical viewfinder and flip out LCD are not important to you.

Isn't the whole point of m4/3s that it is smaller than the competition? I still fail to see how these larger G10 and G2 models are going to appeal to a mass market.
Click to expand...
Have you compared a G1/GH1/GF1/E-PL1 side-by-side, in person? In my opinion, the G1/GH1 and now G2/G10 are not all that much bigger than the GF1 and E-PL1, and with any lens other than a pancake, the difference is largely academic and aesthetic. More importantly, all these cameras are smaller (in some cases a great deal smaller) than most SLRs.

The pricing looks good to me, even a bit lower than expected.

IIRC the G2 comes in below the original G1 price, and the G10 is about the G1's current street price, maybe a little less.
 
mpgxsvcd said:
G10=$599 G2=$799.95 Is that what you were expecting? The G10 looks to be competitive with the EPL1 at $599. However, it doesn't have the EPL1's size advantage and it doesn't have the flip out LCD and touch screen advantage of the G2.
Click to expand...
I think that's perfect. The G10 is at a price point that makes it very competitive with entry level dSLRs, which is what they're positioning against. The G2 has better video, articulating screen and the touch screen interface.
mpgxsvcd said:
I also still think the GF1 at about $800 new is the better deal if the optical viewfinder and flip out LCD are not important to you.
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I wouldn't say it's a "better deal", it's just a different camera for a different market.
mpgxsvcd said:
Isn't the whole point of m4/3s that it is smaller than the competition? I still fail to see how these larger G10 and G2 models are going to appeal to a mass market.
Click to expand...
A G10 is still much smaller and lighter than even something like a 1000D or D3000. And believe it or not, not everyone is attracted to something that looks like a P&S. There are a lot of people who go into something like a Best Buy thinking "I'm going to buy a dSLR". Technical differences aside, the G10 and G2's styling matches that kind of user's expectations - it looks like a dSLR, it has a viewfinder you hold up to your eye, etc. The advantage is that it's quite compact and lighter than the other dSLRs.

At $600, I would be very tempted to get a G10 if it makes it into Best Buy. I'd like a 14-45mm anyway, and it would be fun to play around with the G10 and maybe use it for shooting stuff outdoors where the GF1's LCD can sometimes be problematic.

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
mpgxsvcd said:
Isn't the whole point of m4/3s that it is smaller than the competition?
Click to expand...
That's part of the point. Part of the point is also that they're mirrorless.

Regardless, they're still smaller than DSLRs and some people insist on an EVF. Personally, I'd appreciate the articulating LCD even more than an EVF, but would still opt for a GF1, because I'm looking at m43 for a quality compact, not a DSLR alternative.
mpgxsvcd said:
I still fail to see how these larger G10 and G2 models are going to appeal to a mass market.
Click to expand...
How much of a mass market does Panasonic need to appeal to ?

What's important is whether they'll sell to as many people as Panasonic is planning to sell to.
  • Dennis
--
Gallery at http://kingofthebeasts.smugmug.com
 
Will these cameras be available in stores like the EPL1? I am interested to see how well these cameras do in stores.

Here are the weights of some of the cameras in the entry level interchangeable lens category. I think the weight of the EPL1 and GF1 are huge selling factors. However, you won't know if that weight makes a difference until you hold it in your hands. You can't do that before you buy it unless these cameras are sold in stores.

T2i 530 Grams
G10 388 Grams
G2 428 Grams
EPL1 334 Grams
GF1 315 Grams

--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
mpgxsvcd said:
Isn't the whole point of m4/3s that it is smaller than the competition?
Click to expand...
Not everyone is looking for compact cameras, not that the EP/GF series are all that compact compared to compact P&S cameras like the S90.

The G bodies work way better for those of us with bigger hands, and if you tend to put larger (legacy) lenses on the camera. The bigger bodies make holding those lenses feel more balanced. They're an alternative to the 'compact' EP/GF bodies, not so much a competitor. Quite a few people have one of each. Different tools for different purposes. Despite being larger, the G bodies are still smaller than traditional DSLRs against which they're competing, especially when you look at the system lenses.

Still, to your point, I get the G2's purpose, but I don't know what demographic the G10 is intended to cover aside from being perhaps a cheaper spare body for someone's G1. Without the articulating LCD it stops making much sense to get one IMO.
 
Going by some quick googling, it seems the G2 has the same initial MSRP as the G1 had, $799. It adds video and touch screen and a few other bits which compensates for not being as new and exciting as the G1 was, so the price seems reasonable, considering you get an FF-size viewfinder, articulating screen etc.

It's when you start buying lenses for it the price takes a leap.
--
Just my two öre,
Erik from Sweden
 
mpgxsvcd said:
Will these cameras be available in stores like the EPL1? I am interested to see how well these cameras do in stores.

..., you won't know if that weight makes a difference until you hold it in your hands. You can't do that before you buy it unless these cameras are sold in stores.
Click to expand...
Not sure if Panasonic and Olympus share your concern. They've been doing just fine it seems by selling their products primarily online. Storefronts are less relevant today than they were 10 years ago of more. It's much more acceptable to buy something sight-unseen today. The EPL is in some stores, and other stores have the G1, but otherwise I haven't seen a strong presence by either manufacturer in traditional retail chains or photo specialty stores. It's just not their primary distribution channel.
 
Considering how crippled the G10 is compared with the G2, I think the price difference is rather small. The G10 is 25% cheaper. This doesn't sound like a big deal to me. When shelling out such a significant amount, I would have preferred to save up the extra $200 and buy G2.

The G10 lacks important features (in my opinion), like the articulated LCD, high resolution viewfinder, and so on.

http://m43photo.blogspot.com/
 
Sitting side by side with the $699 NX-10, I think the G-10 will do well. I had the opportunity to handle a G-1 and NX-10 at Fry's and the NX does feel (yes in MY opinion) a bit plasticy and cheap compared to the G-1.

The G-2 should also do well side by side against the Canon because it is smaller and lighter, has the articulating screen and I think more than a few people will be enticed by the touch screen and lower price.

A lot of people make decisions, even expensive ones, based on tactile emotions. The only problem is you typically can't see these cameras side by side. Panasonic needs to get these cameras into the electronic stores. I'm sure a lot of consumers will go touch and feel a Canon or Nikon and then go order it on line, but its difficult to do that with a Panasonic site unseen.
--
SF Photo Gal
Canon 1Ds MkIII/Panasonic GH-1-LX-3-FZ-50
 
mpgxsvcd said:
G10=$599 G2=$799.95 Is that what you were expecting? The G10 looks to be competitive with the EPL1 at $599. However, it doesn't have the EPL1's size advantage and it doesn't have the flip out LCD and touch screen advantage of the G2.

I also still think the GF1 at about $800 new is the better deal if the optical viewfinder and flip out LCD are not important to you.

Isn't the whole point of m4/3s that it is smaller than the competition? I still fail to see how these larger G10 and G2 models are going to appeal to a mass market.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/1004/10041902panagseriesprice.asp
Click to expand...
-- Yes this is exactly the prices I expected but wish they would at same time make the GH1 available body only here in US.

I don't think even Pany expects the G10 with its scaled back specs to be competition with EPL1 rather it is aimed at low end DSLRs and NX10 and more importantly to give Pany a low priced model so they can shore up the G2 price they expect most to want. I think people will find that the JPEG and colors out of the G10 and G2 will be improved so the G10 for those interested only in pictures but don't want cost of adding an EVF to a mini. According to reports and pictures from handlers of the preproduction the pictures are much brighter and colorful from the G2 (& G10). Note these cameras will now be made available in US by end of May not June.

Another factor to consider is all m4/3 EVILS previously assumed to be not suitable generally for sports or fast action because of the blackout on viewfinder or LCD after taking a picture so very difficult to track. Panasonic claims that now blackout problem is absent or substantantially reduced when shooting in 2.7 fps burst mode so this may open up these cameras to more prospective customers who previously going to DSLRs for that very reason.

While I would prefer the format and metalic feel of a EP2 or GF1 more they are best with primes as once you add zoom lens or EVF to the package changes this perspective. If you have ever handled a G series camera you wouldn't be calling them large by any stretch of the imagination compared to their DSLR bretheran esp if you use with the 20/f1.7. If one wants to do a lot of video then the swivel screen as on the G2 or GH1 is invaluable. If I tried to use any of the m4/3 minis sans EVF for video or pictures on an bright sky safari I might as well give up.

Contrary to what many assume there is a big difference in size between the G2 and say the 550D or D5000 APS-C competition with the G2 being only 3.3" tall while the others are 0.6" and 0.9" taller respectively and 15 oz compared to 22 oz in weight for the body not to mention the std kit lens being smaller volume. What some dislike about DSLRs is the huge bump destroying compactness and the G series minimizes that to some extent.

Other advantages the G2 might hold is much much faster CDAF then D5000 or 550D when using Live View and isn't live view what one uses with all video? And having a video format which is twice as efficient in memory use is important as well as not being limited to only 7 minutes so cannot film a concert or show?

Based on some tests published I would expect that inspite of 550D higher MP sensor that the resolution and detail from the EPL1, GF1, and GH1 are a close match when compared using kit lens.

So I believe these new cameras will be more popular than most think just note the continued interest on G2 on this forum hits. I for one however will be more interested in an all metal mini rangefinder with EVF from either Oly or Pany in the future.

Just my personal opinion and two bits
 
mpgxsvcd said:
Will these cameras be available in stores like the EPL1? I am interested to see how well these cameras do in stores.
Click to expand...
According to an interview with Olympus execs, $600 was the magic number in terms of getting MFT cameras into stores like Best Buy. The G10 always struck me as the "Best Buy" model, and the price confirms that.
mpgxsvcd said:
Here are the weights of some of the cameras in the entry level interchangeable lens category. I think the weight of the EPL1 and GF1 are huge selling factors. However, you won't know if that weight makes a difference until you hold it in your hands. You can't do that before you buy it unless these cameras are sold in stores.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think looking at numbers doesn't always tell the whole story - the question really is if they feel different. It's not just weight, it's the overall impression of compactness, etc.

I'm going to divide your list up a little bit more into how Panasonic/Olympus likely see the positioning. I've updated the weight numbers since you were mixing body-only with body-and-lens weights.

Entry Level
G10 558 Grams (with kit lens, battery)
XS - 710 Grams (with kit lens, battery)

Advanced Amateur
T2i 730 Grams (with kit lens, battery)
G2 593 Grams (with kit lens, battery)

Size/Style Conscious
EPL1 484 Grams (with 14-42mm, battery)
GF1 510 Grams (with 14-45mm, battery)
Canon G11 - 375 Grams

--
Sam Bennett - http://www.swiftbennett.com
 
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