Reading mode: Light Dark

I'm madder than a hornet! SD10 a throw away!

Go to last post
A

AdmiralSchnitz

Leading Member
Messages
634
Reaction score
0
Location
Prescott, AZ, US
Got off the line with the repair person at Sigma America in NY. They won't repair my SD10 because they are no longer making parts for the SD10, and my SD10 clearly needs a replacement menu/review/delete button panel that is no longer functioning, which they don't have. First the delete button stop working, and them gradually the others too. Been slow to send it in because I didn't want to be with out it. Finally, with a really major vacation coming up, figured I'd get it fixed, then pass it on to a relative when I get a latter model.

But with this kind of lack of support, I am having second thoughts about another Sigma. After the DP1 battery black eye Sigma got with my husband (and me), and the total inability of the foveon chip so far to be able to reproduce very dark velvety reds (always comes out pink, and I have a ton of orchids with flowers in this color), I am seriously thinking of some other brand. Does Canon or Nikon also stop supporting repairs on cameras only 1, almost 2, models back.

I'm not looking forward to learning how to handle another system, but I figure the equipment I have for the Sigma is not going to keep me from changing, as I can always sell it off, and just say good riddance.

Anyone have a defunct SD10 with a low mileage button panel?
--
Cynthia, Prescott, AZ
 
I understand Your frustration.

I don´t think anything is broken, but the cable inside is loose.The knobs very rarely go out of function and are very reliable.
What You can do:

either send the camera to me, open it Yourself, very easy, or send it to SIGMA Germany.
Talk to Mr. Walther.

Very helpful, friendly and QUICK experts, who are pragmatic and solution orientated.
They always have spare parts.

With the reds-
that´s not true any more.
Since SPP 3.3 and 4.0 everything redwise went AOK.

Or You send me a PM, I have a spare SD10 reasonably priced.

 
AdmiralSchnitz said:
... and the total inability of the foveon chip so far to be able to reproduce very dark velvety reds (always comes out pink, and I have a ton of orchids with flowers in this color) ...
Click to expand...
If SPP4 doesn't recover your reds, upload one such raw file (or contact me by mail and I'll tell you, where to send it) - I wan't to look at it (and inside it).

What about SD10 problem, then I think Gene is right - that should be simple mechanical problem.

--
Arvo
Sigma/Foveon information collection and little gallery:
http://www.stv.ee/~donq/sigma.htm
http://www.stv.ee/~donq/images.htm
 
Hello Gene,

you shurely have an investigative eye, i think this guy at your picture just has stolen his new hat, he forgot to rip of the price badge.
I think being a privete eye is your second profession.

Best regards from outside Munich

Bernd
 
Also, SD10s aren't that expensive used, so it actually might be cheaper to buy another one than to have yours fixed.
 
SPP4 still gives me trouble with some deep reds or rather magenta like those of cactuses growing around here.

On the other hand It works very well with the reds of bougainvilleas, for instance, which previously used to be troublesome.

I would gladly send you a raw file if you can show me how to correct this situation but I need an email address.
 
Gene H, your red is one I have no trouble with. Here is an example of my problem.

These are NOT SIGMA PICTURES, but they show precisely the problem I have. I found these in the internet when I was looking to verify the identity of an orchid I bought without a tag. The first is exactly what the flower looks like, as I have the plant and bought it in bloom. The second is pretty much what I would get if I use my SD10.









They are truly the same plant/clone, but the second is unrecognizable by people that have this plant.

Here are some of my problem pictures/plants with Photo Pro 3.5. First is without any work, and second is the best I could do, but the lip should be so dark it is almost black.









And this one should be a very dark wine/plum/maroonish. Not a PP3.5, but I checked and it is the same.





As far as my SD10 goes, if it is likely it is just a loose connector, I'll give a try opening the body and seeing what I can do. But the keys have lost their printing on the soft buttons, so I suspect it is a wear problem.

--
Cynthia, Prescott, AZ
 
About my immediate post above and my problem with very dark reds/purples. I am beginning to think it is a software caused problem. Here are 2 pictures of the same flowers, the first one, with a DP1, and filling most of the frame, and typical of the 'pink' effect I get with Foveon, DP1 and SD10. The second is taken with the SD10, but filling only a tiny part of the frame. The second one still isn't nearly dark enough or purple enough, but far, far closer than anything I have been able to get trying every maneuverer I can, including full sun light, very low exposure, heavy shade, and natural light in a greenhouse with its own color caste from the plastic sheeting and shade cloth. So, why did this second picture come out so much darker and more toward the purple? Is there some sort of adjustment going on because of the preponderance of red in the frame of the first?

I'm wondering if I could use some sort of filter and then bring the color shift back to normal in PP and get the proper color and darkness.









--
Cynthia, Prescott, AZ
 
Well, if you don't want to send some problem raws to me :), then try yourself:
  • set proper white balance, not paying attention to red
  • set clipping warning to 2-253 or similar (not 0-255!)
  • select warning channel to red
  • unsaturate image to point where red doesn't clip (red warning, right side of histogram)
  • select warning channel to green
  • unsaturate image to point where green doesn't clip (blue warning, look only at flowers)
  • repeat for blue channel
  • repeat for all channels until there will be [almost] no color clipping in any of these (in flower part), nether from lower or upper limits; optionally you may play with exposure, highlight and shadow controls too
  • save result in 16bit tiff file
  • open it in Picture Window Pro or Arcsoft Raw Photostudio or Arcsoft Darkroom (other image editors can be used, but according to mine and some other people test these are best)
  • resaturate image (you may change color models HSV-HSL and other parameters to get best results) (probabaly Photoshop Lab mode is good too, just I've not tested it)
How looks your result now?

--
Arvo
Sigma/Foveon information collection and little gallery:
http://www.stv.ee/~donq/sigma.htm
http://www.stv.ee/~donq/images.htm
 
AdmiralSchnitz said:
Gene H, your red is one I have no trouble with. Here is an example of my problem.

These are NOT SIGMA PICTURES, but they show precisely the problem I have. I found these in the internet when I was looking to verify the identity of an orchid I bought without a tag. The first is exactly what the flower looks like, as I have the plant and bought it in bloom. The second is pretty much what I would get if I use my SD10.









They are truly the same plant/clone, but the second is unrecognizable by people > that have this plant.
Click to expand...
The non sigma shot was probably taken using ambient light whereas your SD10 pic was probably taken using flash, hence the big difference...So its probably not a fault with the SD10 and more a problem with your lighting setup.
--
DSG
--



--
http://sigmasd10.fotopic.net/
 
Interesting. I just bookmarked that advice.

I can imagine three possible explanations for this behaviour.

1. The X3 "colors" are not possible to automatically convert to RGB - a human hand is necessary to fix any anomalies that might turn up. You can of course automatically move the anaomalies around - making them less obvious. But to fix them - a human is needed.

2. The X3 "gamut" is huge and/or strange so you get border problems that is not easy to program. And the rendering intent Sigam/Foveon has chosen is not by any means optimal. (This is a variant of 1)

3. SPP is made by incompetent people. OK - bad choice of words. They would need some strengthening of the SPP team.

--
Roland

support http://www.openraw.org/
(Sleeping - so the need to support it is even higher)

X3F tools : http://www.proxel.se/x3f.html
 
I have no idea which camera either of these pictures were taken with. I only use them as a description of what I am experiencing, and it is very real with both my SD10, and my DP1. I have tried sun, shade (indoors and out), flash, and heavy under exposure in each of these. I even hate to use the word red, as everyone has a preconception of what red is, and my problem plants are very much unlike anything one thinks of as red. I can only point to the first picture (below) and say that this is what I am trying to capture, and can't.





--
Cynthia, Prescott, AZ
 
Have you tried SPP 3.0? It seems to handle reds differently than all the others.
AdmiralSchnitz said:
I have no idea which camera either of these pictures were taken with. I only use them as a description of what I am experiencing, and it is very real with both my SD10, and my DP1. I have tried sun, shade (indoors and out), flash, and heavy under exposure in each of these. I even hate to use the word red, as everyone has a preconception of what red is, and my problem plants are very much unlike anything one thinks of as red. I can only point to the first picture (below) and say that this is what I am trying to capture, and can't.





--
Cynthia, Prescott, AZ
Click to expand...
 
Or Silkypix?
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=35065950
mike earussi said:
AdmiralSchnitz said:
I have no idea which camera either of these pictures were taken with. I only use them as a description of what I am experiencing, and it is very real with both my SD10, and my DP1. I have tried sun, shade (indoors and out), flash, and heavy under exposure in each of these. I even hate to use the word red, as everyone has a preconception of what red is, and my problem plants are very much unlike anything one thinks of as red. I can only point to the first picture (below) and say that this is what I am trying to capture, and can't.





--
Cynthia, Prescott, AZ
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
AdmiralSchnitz said:
I'm wondering if I could use some sort of filter and then bring the color shift back to normal in PP and get the proper color and darkness.
Click to expand...
OK, I am now convinced the problem is solvable with a filter. I was at an orchid show where I took a picture of the problem flower. I had forgotten my flash, so had to shoot everything in the ambient light that was severely yellow, and to avoid motion blur I heavily underexposed. I have been adjusting the resulting photos anywhere from 13C,13M to up to 30C,30M, and 1 to 2 stops up in brightness. Take a look at the result for the problem plant (sorry about the blur, but did better on the rest of the show):





and what I had said before was a good reproduction of color:





Now that I know there is a solution, I am a happy camper. Just need to find the right filter. I assume it would be a yellow filter, and then standardize the correction, which doesn't bother me, as I am always adjusting the color (by eye). I can imagine this would not be an option for people that like to use the many color balance options, but I shoot everything in sunlight and balance to my own sensitivities. Using a gray card would probably help tho.
--
Cynthia, Prescott, AZ
 
AdmiralSchnitz said:
Anyone have a defunct SD10 with a low mileage button panel?
--
Cynthia, Prescott, AZ
Click to expand...
Hi Cynthia,

Actually I have an SD10 - which I have not used for a long time. I had a problem with it a few years ago and it was repaired by Sigma Japan....required a complete new sensor...the ins and outs of what exactly was done I cant be sure but they replaced a lot of parts...so it is virtually new.

In the circumstances I may consider selling it.
 
Arvo,

I have been trying to send you files but the emails to your private address bounce back. Mail box full?
 
opto_fr said:
Arvo,

I have been trying to send you files but the emails to your private address bounce back. Mail box full?
Click to expand...
I wrote somewhere (maybe not in current thread, then sorry) that please don't attempt to send images to my e-mail address in profile - it is limited, nothing over about 7MB goes through.
Just write to me and I tell you, where to send (or upload) images.

--
Arvo
Sigma/Foveon information collection and little gallery:
http://www.stv.ee/~donq/sigma.htm
http://www.stv.ee/~donq/images.htm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top