5D or 7D

You proably have a good point with the 5D. I'm just so enamored with all the things the 7D (and 5D2) can do that it seems hard to go back to the 5D's older technology, but it probably doesn't matter as much as its fine IQ does.

FF
 
Everyone is in their own camp and fighting for their body. It's not megapixels that make a camera. It's how the processor handles them. My 40D does a great job with what it does. I would really like to have a full frame to compare it to!!! This is how I feel listening to all this.

 
I agree with this - at least when the assist points are enabled. However, the peripheral points are not that great. Not as good as those on my 50D.
...about the 5DII is that the AF is actually a bit better than a ##D, when using the center point (with or without helper points). But it's more fashionable to poop on the 5DII AF here.

If you need pro AF and fps, you get the 7D. If you need the things you said you need, you get the 5DII.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/inate
 
Everyone is in their own camp and fighting for their body. It's not megapixels that make a camera. It's how the processor handles them. My 40D does a great job with what it does. I would really like to have a full frame to compare it to!!! This is how I feel listening to all this.

It is the sensor size leading to better IQ in terms of mimicing the real word color, gray toning, better dynamic range, hence better detail as well as noise characteristics. My 40D is a very capable camera. It also has some advantages over my 5dmkII like slightly better AI Servo, more reach due to cropping when normalised to same pixel density etc. Having said in terms of image quality due to sensor (excluding factors due to AF etc) there is no comparison. 5d wins...Not due to only 21mp vs 10mp, but due to larger sensor size. The original 5d has 12mp, still the sensor image quality is more capable than 7d which has 18mp on a 8x12print or 100crop on monitor. It is the physics after all, larger sensor gathers more light, more information meaning better IQ.
 
Compared to my 12 MP APS-C Canon XSi/450D--already a newer camera than the 10 MP 40D--my Canon 7D is at least two stops better in terms of noise. In other words, ISO 3200 on the 7D is at least as good as ISO 800 on the XSi/450D. I think I'm agreeing with Mr. Beagle.

FF
FF, your 450D must have some problems then. 7d is slightly better than 40d or 450d on print, but no way it is 2 stops better. Even on a 100% crop level on monitor, my 40D has a better noise performance than 7d. Dont tell me on same sensor size, Canon has achieved 2 stops better ISO performance with a 18mp sensor compared to 12mp and 10mp. What Canon has achieved is similar noise performance with increasing pixels on the sensor which has its other merits as well.
 
It is the physics after all, larger sensor gathers more light, more information meaning better IQ.
Indeed, but the 7D has a quantum efficiency 50% better than the 5D (which was the worst canon ever made in that respect) which makes up some of the area deficit.
 
Do you own a 7d? I keep seeing comments from people who have shot with a 7d or downloaded samples off the net, but I dont see comments like that from owners. I went from a 20d, to a 40d to a 50d to a 7d to a 5dmkII.

Each XXD body was a improvement over the one before it for me. I sold my 40d immediately after getting the 50d. I still have my 50D, 7d and 5dMkII. I think where people get lost in comparisons is in some silly noise test instead of using real world tests, aka actual photography. Each camera was a marked improvement over the last until the 5dm2, with the 7d being the most noticeable jump. If you used some silly test to measure amount of noise on the 7d, it might be close to a 40d, i dont know. I can tell you that it doesn't show in the image or what is there, blends better with the image so that its not as noticeable. I wouldnt even attempt to take pictures at ISO6400 on the 50d or earlier cameras. It just isn't usable. I'm pretty happy with ISO6400 on my 7d, in fact more happy than I am with ISO6400 on my 5dMkII...
 
It is the physics after all, larger sensor gathers more light, more information meaning better IQ.
Indeed, but the 7D has a quantum efficiency 50% better than the 5D (which was the worst canon ever made in that respect) which makes up some of the area deficit.
Just check the sensor performances on graphs of 7d vs original 5d on dxomark sensor database, you will see. Btw I did not get it what you mean by quantum effciency 50% better.
 
Do you own a 7d? I keep seeing comments from people who have shot with a 7d or downloaded samples off the net, but I dont see comments like that from owners. I went from a 20d, to a 40d to a 50d to a 7d to a 5dmkII.

Each XXD body was a improvement over the one before it for me. I sold my 40d immediately after getting the 50d. I still have my 50D, 7d and 5dMkII. I think where people get lost in comparisons is in some silly noise test instead of using real world tests, aka actual photography. Each camera was a marked improvement over the last until the 5dm2, with the 7d being the most noticeable jump. If you used some silly test to measure amount of noise on the 7d, it might be close to a 40d, i dont know. I can tell you that it doesn't show in the image or what is there, blends better with the image so that its not as noticeable. I wouldnt even attempt to take pictures at ISO6400 on the 50d or earlier cameras. It just isn't usable. I'm pretty happy with ISO6400 on my 7d, in fact more happy than I am with ISO6400 on my 5dMkII...
I need to go to bed, it is getting late here. I currently dont own a 7d, have a 40d and 5dmkII. But I had plenty of time to use a 7D to check its AF and IQ. Noise tests I agree are misleading, also many people make the comparisons on 100% crop size on monitor, which is leading to less pixel count sensor showing less noise, having said, the real world performance are most valid on a same size print.
 
I think you may be in the minority if you're claiming the 7D is a marked improvement over the 5DMKII for IQ and higher ISO shooting.

Most comments I have read in here are the opposite?

I have a 5DMKII and a 1DMKIII and prefer both to the 7D (5DMKII for people/landscapes/IQ/high ISO and the 1DMKIII for sport). That was after using a friend's 7D for a test run and checking results.

Zoooming

offcamber wrote:

Each camera was a marked improvement over the last until the 5dm2, with the 7d being the most noticeable jump.

I'm pretty happy with ISO6400 on my 7d, in fact more happy than I am with ISO6400 on my 5dMkII...

--
Zoooming
 
I'm an engineer by education. I geek out on charts and graphs. I get as much pleasure from the techie factor of photography gear as I do the aesthetic joy of making my own art. I digest MTF charts and the DXO website like it's the morning paper. But there's no need for any of that when I tell you...

Just stop reading this thread and get a 5DI if you want better images. It's a marked improvement over the 40D with all of my lenses. And I love my 40D. Just get ready to go back to a 2005 design camera body with spottier low light focus, 3fps, a smaller screen, and no Live View.

--
http://andymcelroy.smugmug.com
 
It is the physics after all, larger sensor gathers more light, more information meaning better IQ.
Indeed, but the 7D has a quantum efficiency 50% better than the 5D (which was the worst canon ever made in that respect) which makes up some of the area deficit.
Just check the sensor performances on graphs of 7d vs original 5d on dxomark sensor database, you will see.
The figure for quantum efficiency was derived from the DxO data by Chrisk99, here.
Btw I did not get it what you mean by quantum effciency 50% better.
I meant that the quantum efficiency is 50% better. That means that the 7D converts 50% more of the photons that hit the sensor int electrons which can be registered by the read electronics.
 
how many takes to get this shot? could the average photog hit this 3 out of 4 times? or is this more like 1 out of 20?
An example...if it wasn't I couldnt throw the frisbee, frame the shot, focus and shoot and get good results all in a second or so.... ;)

--
pardon my typos :)
 
I'm pretty happy with ISO6400 on my 7d, in fact more happy than I am with ISO6400 on my 5dMkII...
Then you must have a malfunctioning 5D2 then if that's the case, seriously. I've never seen anyone state that about the 7D vs. 5D2. :D
 
I'm pretty happy with ISO6400 on my 7d, in fact more happy than I am with ISO6400 on my 5dMkII...
Then you must have a malfunctioning 5D2 then if that's the case, seriously. I've never seen anyone state that about the 7D vs. 5D2. :D
It's possible. The 5DII has the well known Canon pattern noise problem, which might limit the acceptability of low light images (tartan shadows are an interesting effect, but not always what you want). As I understand it, the 7D has less of this problem.
 
I stupidly was asking myself the same question until I read the review of the 7D here. The superb and well-thought out new still life studio test already tells you how resolution is being cancelled by noise at 800 iso on a 7D; but if you download a few of the images from the samples gallery you can see just how bad the 7D in fact is in low light.

I downloaded the RAW samples, not the jpegs. THe 1600 iso image of the bike handlebars tells me all I need to know: that right now you still cannot get a noisefree image at higher isos with an APS-C 18MP sensor- the M9 Leica samples say exactly the same thing.

I had a 40D and was not unhappy with it, but 6MP is still the limit in real terms for quality on APS-C.

I tried the latest flavour of DPP on these RAW 7D samples. Ok at low isos, perfectly acceptable at 100isoi. But even using Canon 7D specific software you simply cannot see fine detail at 100% at 800 iso and above. With noise reduction the detail vanishes. Without it, the grainy textures of the noise render all textures as the same. Shame!

a 5D will do a much better job, the Mk1, not the Mk2.
 
If printed, what size (in inches) would a 7D image be at 100% ?

Thanks.
I stupidly was asking myself the same question until I read the review of the 7D here. The superb and well-thought out new still life studio test already tells you how resolution is being cancelled by noise at 800 iso on a 7D; but if you download a few of the images from the samples gallery you can see just how bad the 7D in fact is in low light.

I downloaded the RAW samples, not the jpegs. THe 1600 iso image of the bike handlebars tells me all I need to know: that right now you still cannot get a noisefree image at higher isos with an APS-C 18MP sensor- the M9 Leica samples say exactly the same thing.

I had a 40D and was not unhappy with it, but 6MP is still the limit in real terms for quality on APS-C.

I tried the latest flavour of DPP on these RAW 7D samples. Ok at low isos, perfectly acceptable at 100isoi. But even using Canon 7D specific software you simply cannot see fine detail at 100% at 800 iso and above. With noise reduction the detail vanishes. Without it, the grainy textures of the noise render all textures as the same. Shame!

a 5D will do a much better job, the Mk1, not the Mk2.
 
As large as you want it (and can afford to pay for)!

Seriously, how sharp do you need it, how many pixels per inch? For magazine quality and 4"x6" photo prints 300 ppi (pixels per inch) are usually deemed good, bur for a large poster print 100 or 50 ppi (or even less) might be perfectly fine, as you do not get that close for viewing. At 50 dpi you get a 104" x 69" print from a 5184 x 3456 7D image. Satisfied?

BeeJee
Gallery: http://www.jour.zenfolio.com
Thanks.
I stupidly was asking myself the same question until I read the review of the 7D here. The superb and well-thought out new still life studio test already tells you how resolution is being cancelled by noise at 800 iso on a 7D; but if you download a few of the images from the samples gallery you can see just how bad the 7D in fact is in low light.

I downloaded the RAW samples, not the jpegs. THe 1600 iso image of the bike handlebars tells me all I need to know: that right now you still cannot get a noisefree image at higher isos with an APS-C 18MP sensor- the M9 Leica samples say exactly the same thing.

I had a 40D and was not unhappy with it, but 6MP is still the limit in real terms for quality on APS-C.

I tried the latest flavour of DPP on these RAW 7D samples. Ok at low isos, perfectly acceptable at 100isoi. But even using Canon 7D specific software you simply cannot see fine detail at 100% at 800 iso and above. With noise reduction the detail vanishes. Without it, the grainy textures of the noise render all textures as the same. Shame!

a 5D will do a much better job, the Mk1, not the Mk2.
--
Gallery: jour.zenfolio.com
 

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