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Mark K

Mark K

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Wow.

The claims just keep getting better!

1.8pl???

2880x2880 dpi???

Exif AND PIM II???

3x print swath compared with 950??? (what about the actual speed???)

Who wants the 960 now??? ;)

HP management can only cry at the latest stops Epson and Canon are pulling... Gosh, when the Japanese fight, they really spare no sushi unturned! lol

--
Fotografer
 
On the speed, they're claiming 2X. Maybe not as fast as Canon's newest but in the ballpark.

So yeah you're right that HP is sucking (even more) exhaust. But I think Epson is also, though at least they've got the pigment angle, which isn't a bad angle really.

I'm wondering if Epson NA has decided to just try and skip the 960 and to just wait for the 970. But the seven color printers have never made it to NA even though they've been available in Japan for years. And as you point out, they still haven't!
fotografer said:
3x print swath compared with 950??? (what about the actual speed???)

Who wants the 960 now??? ;)

HP management can only cry at the latest stops Epson and Canon are
pulling... Gosh, when the Japanese fight, they really spare no
sushi unturned! lol
Click to expand...
 
Don!
Member said:
On the speed, they're claiming 2X. Maybe not as fast as Canon's
newest but in the ballpark.
Click to expand...
If there is 3x width, I would presume they should be able to get 3x speed. Two times? That's equivalent to the new HP Photoret IV only...
Member said:
So yeah you're right that HP is sucking (even more) exhaust. But I
think Epson is also, though at least they've got the pigment angle,
which isn't a bad angle really.
Click to expand...
I hope they develope their durabrite into a six-color ink system. Of course, they will have a long way to go to get the glossy to print right. Or relegate the prosumer 2200 inks to the consumer levels. Not much to loose in that sense, I think...
Member said:
I'm wondering if Epson NA has decided to just try and skip the 960
and to just wait for the 970. But the seven color printers have
never made it to NA even though they've been available in Japan for
years. And as you point out, they still haven't!
Click to expand...
I think when it comes to printer distribution, Canon is tops. They have all the means (unethical ones even) to release products, and seemed to know when the competitors are releasing their new offering, and then release them days before that.

The old HP photosmart, code-named Jaguar (yes, way before Apple stole this name for their OS), before its release, Canon seemed to know of this and claimed some patent dispute, to stop its release to Japan. Of course, there are no such dispute in the end. But the Time to Delivery to the market is lost. The original HP photosmart did not even make any presence in Japan in the end...

Still, we'll see if the i950 is going to come to NA and Europe soon or not. I only hope that their distribution of their inks are just as efficient, though...

--
Fotografer
 
The web site says 2X basically. I'm guessing that in practice it will be faster than the HPs.

Canon has been described as Microsoft with good products. So yeah, they're formidible. They are really beginning to dominate the digital market in just about every segment. And they're about as well loved as Microsoft too.

On the inks, I happened to be in a couple of stores before the C82 was released and there were C82 ink cartridges everywhere -- not printers, just the replacement cartridges. Just the reverse of the usual. So yes it seems everyone is getting up the learning curve.
fotografer said:
If there is 3x width, I would presume they should be able to get 3x
speed. Two times? That's equivalent to the new HP Photoret IV
only...
Click to expand...
 
Don,
Member said:
The web site says 2X basically. I'm guessing that in practice it
will be faster than the HPs.
Click to expand...
Compared with the 4800 dpi, yes. Photoret IV? I doubt - maybe only comparable. Then again, I would be surprised the 1.8 pl at 2800x2800 dpi can print at lighting speeds... In any case, it will not be a Canon in that sense.
Member said:
Canon has been described as Microsoft with good products. So yeah,
they're formidible. They are really beginning to dominate the
digital market in just about every segment. And they're about as
well loved as Microsoft too.
Click to expand...
Only problem is that the consummables are inconsistent, despite their claim of longer lasting inks. Still, I am hoping one of them, either Canon or Epson, will be what Sony is to audio industry.
Member said:
On the inks, I happened to be in a couple of stores before the C82
was released and there were C82 ink cartridges everywhere -- not
printers, just the replacement cartridges. Just the reverse of the
usual. So yes it seems everyone is getting up the learning curve.
Click to expand...
I can't say the same about the 2200, though. And since Epson, like Canon, don't have printhead in their carts, I don't see why the carts should be in short supply, in any sense. If they are 'smart', they should consider the model HP adpoted, larger lm, lc, Y and K carts so that they can more equally distribute their carts, and not have one color missing or someting - like the light magenta of Canons...

--
Fotografer
 
Couldn't say for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are several containers full of 960 printers sitting on a ship floating in Long Beach Harbor.
fotografer said:
Donald Cooper said:
Thanks for the cite. Looks like Epson is on the bigger head for
speed path to catch up to Canon.
Click to expand...
But strangely, sp960 is still not in sight...

--
Fotografer
Click to expand...
 
Bruce,

Maybe. But will people still lap it (sp960) up when they know now there are bigger (printhead 3x size of 950), finer (1.8 pl) and faster (2x of 950)?

Is 960 doomed to failure? Will it be short-lived? We'll see... They promise mid Oct delivery, so this will be interesting...
BruceH123 said:
Couldn't say for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are
several containers full of 960 printers sitting on a ship floating
in Long Beach Harbor.
Click to expand...
--
Fotografer
 
For some reason the two sites mentionned at the beginning of this thread show up in an asian language for me.

Do any of you know if the new Epson will be dye or pigment ink?
fotografer said:
fotografer said:
The web site says 2X basically. I'm guessing that in practice it
will be faster than the HPs.
Click to expand...
Compared with the 4800 dpi, yes. Photoret IV? I doubt - maybe only
comparable. Then again, I would be surprised the 1.8 pl at
2800x2800 dpi can print at lighting speeds... In any case, it will
not be a Canon in that sense.
fotografer said:
Canon has been described as Microsoft with good products. So yeah,
they're formidible. They are really beginning to dominate the
digital market in just about every segment. And they're about as
well loved as Microsoft too.
Click to expand...
Only problem is that the consummables are inconsistent, despite
their claim of longer lasting inks. Still, I am hoping one of them,
either Canon or Epson, will be what Sony is to audio industry.
fotografer said:
On the inks, I happened to be in a couple of stores before the C82
was released and there were C82 ink cartridges everywhere -- not
printers, just the replacement cartridges. Just the reverse of the
usual. So yes it seems everyone is getting up the learning curve.
Click to expand...
I can't say the same about the 2200, though. And since Epson, like
Canon, don't have printhead in their carts, I don't see why the
carts should be in short supply, in any sense. If they are 'smart',
they should consider the model HP adpoted, larger lm, lc, Y and K
carts so that they can more equally distribute their carts, and not
have one color missing or someting - like the light magenta of
Canons...

--
Fotografer
Click to expand...
 
I'd like to see and compare these two and maybe HP will do something to stay in the game or give up and become a commodity product, who knows. Epson needed speed badly but I see 1.8pl and 2880x2880 and speed is not the first word that comes to mind. BUT, if they can do it, its something they need very badly. Separate cartridges, also, a standard that all mfg's should be living up to these days. I'm kind of leaning to a Canon at this point, though HP has been my partner of choice for years, I just get the impression that Canon does photo's better. Epson, is in general too slow, or no better than the Canon. Time will tell, just my humble impressions.
fotografer said:
fotografer said:
The web site says 2X basically. I'm guessing that in practice it
will be faster than the HPs.
Click to expand...
Compared with the 4800 dpi, yes. Photoret IV? I doubt - maybe only
comparable. Then again, I would be surprised the 1.8 pl at
2800x2800 dpi can print at lighting speeds... In any case, it will
not be a Canon in that sense.
fotografer said:
Canon has been described as Microsoft with good products. So yeah,
they're formidible. They are really beginning to dominate the
digital market in just about every segment. And they're about as
well loved as Microsoft too.
Click to expand...
Only problem is that the consummables are inconsistent, despite
their claim of longer lasting inks. Still, I am hoping one of them,
either Canon or Epson, will be what Sony is to audio industry.
fotografer said:
On the inks, I happened to be in a couple of stores before the C82
was released and there were C82 ink cartridges everywhere -- not
printers, just the replacement cartridges. Just the reverse of the
usual. So yes it seems everyone is getting up the learning curve.
Click to expand...
I can't say the same about the 2200, though. And since Epson, like
Canon, don't have printhead in their carts, I don't see why the
carts should be in short supply, in any sense. If they are 'smart',
they should consider the model HP adpoted, larger lm, lc, Y and K
carts so that they can more equally distribute their carts, and not
have one color missing or someting - like the light magenta of
Canons...

--
Fotografer
Click to expand...
 
Mario,

sp970's still a dye-based machine. I have a feelin' that Epson is going to 'beat' Canon's i950 by releasing the A4 brother of 2200...
Mario4500 said:
For some reason the two sites mentionned at the beginning of this
thread show up in an asian language for me.

Do any of you know if the new Epson will be dye or pigment ink?
Click to expand...
--
Fotografer
 
David,

When it comes to cornering the photo-exclusive market, I would still think Canon and Epson will lash it out more fiercely. Canon has good history of excellent, award-winning SLRs, and it's not surprising for them to fight their way to the top in digital-photo printers market as well. They HAVE to make a name for themselves as an all-round photo-imaging solution company.

HP, unfortunately, an American company, still looks more to the 'consumer' market (thinking that's the largest piece of the pie), and until and unless they come up with something compelling like a wide-format large ink capacity version of their Photoret IV system, their 'in the league' time will be short-lived indeed.

American (HP) vs Japan (Canon, Epson)? In auto industries, Japanese (and German) cars seem to be the ones with the innovation. When it comes to audio industry, again Japanese (and German too?) brands seem to corner the mass market very well. Looks like this is the same with digicams... Photo-dedicated printers? Not difficult to see who the main players are in a few years' time...
David Fey said:
I'd like to see and compare these two and maybe HP will do
something to stay in the game or give up and become a commodity
product, who knows. Epson needed speed badly but I see 1.8pl and
2880x2880 and speed is not the first word that comes to mind. BUT,
if they can do it, its something they need very badly. Separate
cartridges, also, a standard that all mfg's should be living up to
these days. I'm kind of leaning to a Canon at this point, though
HP has been my partner of choice for years, I just get the
impression that Canon does photo's better. Epson, is in general
too slow, or no better than the Canon. Time will tell, just my
humble impressions.
Click to expand...
--
Fotografer
 
HP was extremely innovative until about four years ago. For instance, the 970 with duplex printing and good output was far better than anything Canon had at anything remotely in that price point. Then something seems to have happened. Since then it's been a bust. And the silly Indigo business is a joke.

The foray into the photo market is a bust. The products are poor "me-too" offerings that only a former HP guy could love. :-) Personally I think they should forget it.

On the other hand, they own the office market, and their products are well designed for this. Other than Canon, I don't see anyone who can really compete.

But even here they miss a lot of opportunities. The DesignJets are nice printers and they are the only offering in the $900-$1500 range for desktops. I could see a great market for these devices for short runs of brochures and other business leave-behinds or take-aways. But to do that, you'd want borderless (trimming a a drag). And HP hasn't bothered to put the little piece of sponge in there. Why? How hard could it be? By doing just little thing, they could actually create a very profitable niche which they would totally dominate. (Maybe we're waiting for the Indigo to get to an affordable $200,000?)
fotografer said:
When it comes to cornering the photo-exclusive market, I would
still think Canon and Epson will lash it out more fiercely. Canon
has good history of excellent, award-winning SLRs, and it's not
surprising for them to fight their way to the top in digital-photo
printers market as well. They HAVE to make a name for themselves as
an all-round photo-imaging solution company.
Click to expand...
 
Meanwhile when is Epson going to realize that speed counts? 30 min for a top resolution 11x18 print?

Set the printer to print that and go out for lunch

Great results but anyone will tell you that great doesn't matter if it doesn't arrive in time...
Donald Cooper said:
The foray into the photo market is a bust. The products are poor
"me-too" offerings that only a former HP guy could love. :-)
Personally I think they should forget it.

On the other hand, they own the office market, and their products
are well designed for this. Other than Canon, I don't see anyone
who can really compete.

But even here they miss a lot of opportunities. The DesignJets are
nice printers and they are the only offering in the $900-$1500
range for desktops. I could see a great market for these devices
for short runs of brochures and other business leave-behinds or
take-aways. But to do that, you'd want borderless (trimming a a
drag). And HP hasn't bothered to put the little piece of sponge in
there. Why? How hard could it be? By doing just little thing, they
could actually create a very profitable niche which they would
totally dominate. (Maybe we're waiting for the Indigo to get to an
affordable $200,000?)
fotografer said:
When it comes to cornering the photo-exclusive market, I would
still think Canon and Epson will lash it out more fiercely. Canon
has good history of excellent, award-winning SLRs, and it's not
surprising for them to fight their way to the top in digital-photo
printers market as well. They HAVE to make a name for themselves as
an all-round photo-imaging solution company.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
David,

That is why they are trying to regain some footing with their quick release of sp970 in Japan, apparently printing at 2x the speed of sp960. Perhaps it would be, like 15 minutes for top resolution, top quality at large format in the future, hopefully the near future...
David Fey said:
Meanwhile when is Epson going to realize that speed counts? 30 min
for a top resolution 11x18 print?

Set the printer to print that and go out for lunch

Great results but anyone will tell you that great doesn't matter if
it doesn't arrive in time...
Click to expand...
--
Fotografer
 
How are Epson measuring pl to the tolerance on 0.1 of a pl? Its obviously a spec war issue (vs 2pl from Canon)...

Also photo print speed will be based upon large drop sizes (10/5pl) @720dpi. Canon S900 is printing 1ppm photo @1200x1200dpi. I assume i950 should be printing 1ppm at a higher resolution (2400x1200dpi?) due to smaller drop size...
fotografer said:
Maybe. But will people still lap it (sp960) up when they know now
there are bigger (printhead 3x size of 950), finer (1.8 pl) and
faster (2x of 950)?

Is 960 doomed to failure? Will it be short-lived? We'll see... They
promise mid Oct delivery, so this will be interesting...
BruceH123 said:
Couldn't say for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are
several containers full of 960 printers sitting on a ship floating
in Long Beach Harbor.
Click to expand...
--
Fotografer
Click to expand...
 
I don't think Sony rules in Audio. Although I got Sony DVD and souround receiver. I don't like what Sony been doing with buttons, I hate their buttons on my new 410 monitor, I hate the lack of rotating knobs on my receiver for base and treble.

I would say Sony rules in TV/monitor industry with their trinitron tubes,
fotografer said:
Still, I am hoping one of them, either Canon or Epson, will be what Sony is to audio industry.
Click to expand...
fotografer said:
Fotografer
Click to expand...
 
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