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I Don't Care What Features Sony Leaves Out of Cameras - And Why Should You?

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WaltKnapp said:
tompower53 said:
This constant carping over and over is tiresome. Once people have made their point multiple times it is enough. We all know that Sony has made some mistakes. If they can fix them good if not we just will have to move on.
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One can say the same thing about the constant pushing of the a550 right at the moment. How many new threads is that to repeat the same thing. That it's a "perfect camera" for a specific individual. The problem is less pointing out flaws and more abusing those that do so.

Walt
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Being happy enough to want to tell others about something you actually OWN is not the same as trashing what someone else owns. Especially after you trashed your 100th. - TF
 
OldClicker said:
The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.
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Walt said:
Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around.
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For what it's worth here are the 'average daily user' figures for yesterdays users in terms of Flickr uploads (users not photos uploaded)...this should offer a pretty good rough measure of numbers of cameras out there in use

Alpha DSLR-A200 674
Alpha DSLR-A100 401
Alpha DSLR-A350 370
Alpha DSLR-A300 325
Alpha DSLR-A700 315
Alpha DSLR-A900 86

Just so we get things in some sort of real life perspective.
yakkosmurf said:
I suspect Sony is making feature decisions based on marketing research conducted on their target audience. I assume they have defined their target audience for the lower models to be much broader than the small percentage of users who like cameras enough to visit a messageboard and post comments. Just a thought.
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Wise words indeed!
 
WaltKnapp said:
These forums are read by Sony employees. Therefore what's said here does get to Sony directly.
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gfrensen said:
gfrensen said:
Are you sure?
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If they do then I think they would pretty quickly work out that the critical posts come from a very small group of disgruntled users who nevertheless sour the tone of the whole forum.

I'm not sure they would or should take notice of such a small sample of vocal complainers, when they doubtless do their own research on large representative samples of their target market.

So if that is the reason for all these endless negative posts from the same individuals, please save your time. Sony really aren't going to mistake several 100 complaints from the same individuals for a huge groundswell of opinion they should take note of.
 
neww2dig said:
There are lots of buyers who just do not need the basic set up that most of the complainers are calling for regardless of cost. It's a feature set.
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That is what P&S are for. And the new EVIL line. The world of cameras does not end with DSLRs, there are plenty of other choices, particularily for those that don't want features on their cameras.

Walt
 
OldClicker said:
Being happy enough to want to tell others about something you actually OWN is not the same as trashing what someone else owns. Especially after you trashed your 100th. - TF
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You mean like you trash a700s. There are lots of someone else's that own those, and you don't.

The claim has been that no one should repeat their statements. If that's so happy statements should not be repeated either.

Walt
 
JimmyMelbourne said:
The rules of the forum are pretty clear about continuing with the same tired old bashing. The point has been made over and over and over already. We get it.
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The rules apply to anything, including endlessly promoting a550s. We get it that a certain individual likes the a550. We also get it that he wants to dictate that's the only camera available for everyone else.

Walt
 
WaltKnapp said:
neww2dig said:
There are lots of buyers who just do not need the basic set up that most of the complainers are calling for regardless of cost. It's a feature set.
Click to expand...
That is what P&S are for. And the new EVIL line. The world of cameras does not end with DSLRs, there are plenty of other choices, particularily for those that don't want features on their cameras.

Walt
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What??? If someone wants to buy a DSLR with features that don't meet your standards, you really don't get to say that they can only have a P&S. When you get to be king, you can declare it to be so, but until then... - TF
 
WaltKnapp said:
OldClicker said:
Being happy enough to want to tell others about something you actually OWN is not the same as trashing what someone else owns. Especially after you trashed your 100th. - TF
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You mean like you trash a700s. There are lots of someone else's that own those, and you don't.
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The he!! I don't. I own an A350, A700 and A200 (200 intended for IR modification). I think the A700 is a wonderful camera, though it would not be my only body. As far as I can recall, I've only once mentioned features of the A700 that I dislike. If I have ever high jacked a thread about the A700 by trashing it, please point it out so that I may apologize.
WaltKnapp said:
The claim has been that no one should repeat their statements. If that's so happy statements should not be repeated either.
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"The claim", what's the claim. Stick with what I said. I inferred that you have trashed other's cameras over 100 times and it's way past time to stop (I'm quite sure it an order of magnitude greater than 100). If someone comes on a does a half dozen bubbly posts about his new camera, I'm all for it. He would probably only have to do one if the thread wasn't high jacked by those who feel that his being happy is wrong and that they have to tell him he really just bought junk not even usable by a real photographer.
WaltKnapp said:
Walt
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TF
 
WaltKnapp said:
JimmyMelbourne said:
The rules of the forum are pretty clear about continuing with the same tired old bashing. The point has been made over and over and over already. We get it.
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The rules apply to anything, including endlessly promoting a550s. We get it that a certain individual likes the a550. We also get it that he wants to dictate that's the only camera available for everyone else.

Walt
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"We also get it that he wants to dictate that's the only camera available for everyone else." Show me! - TF
 
jimb100 said:
................................................
What bothers me is the lack of cameras without all the expected features.

How can you claim to have a camera line when you don't have any cameras (let alone multiple cameras at different price points) that offer the traditional features that advanced amateurs and semi-pros require.

The real problem with Sony dslrs is that they have a couple of expensive full frame cameras with a few features missing and a lot of entry level cameras with lots of features missing.
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Sony's FF cameras A900/850 have it all for photography, nothing really needed is missing! Well, no LV but Intelligent Preview works fine, also some photographers still need to use non-chipped lenses ( quite old ) and the "A" mode doesn't work with those, but MF works fine in that case...!
jimb100 said:
Where are the cameras with all the modes needed, MLU, depth of field preview, fast autofocus, accurate white balance, good jpegs, iso in the viewfinder, build quality, sealing, micro adjustment, big viewfinders, etc.?

Make all the crippled newby cameras you want and let the p&s crowd rave about face detection and fast live view, but you don't have a camera line if you don't have anything with full features.
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Again, Sony does have those bodies.
jimb100 said:
And by the way, Sony, stop charging more for lenses without IS. There's no advantage to internal stabilization if your lenses cost more than the competition's stabilized lenses.
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Well, when you add up the cost of several lenses with IS IMHO the SSS is an advantage. Of course SSS is a big advantage when you already have non-stabilized lenses or want to buy third party lenses ( which currently are actually very good ).
Anyway I have to agree that some Sony lenses are quite overpriced.

... Lucas

--
Always having fun with photography ...

Starting a new gallery: http://lucaspix.smugmug.com/

 
yakkosmurf said:
I suspect Sony is making feature decisions based on marketing research conducted on their target audience. I assume they have defined their target audience for the lower models to be much broader than the small percentage of users who like cameras enough to visit a messageboard and post comments. Just a thought.
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And if they did?

Does this mean Sony no longer cater for the enthusiast on a budget less than the A850?

Actually the more interesting question than either of those is where you see yourself fitting into the Sony customer demographic?

Are you part of the target market you think they defined?

I am curious because given you post on a message board you ought to be outside their target market by your own definition yet you seem to be defending their strategy yet I guess you will be left high and dry if they don't cater for the typical DPR message board poster?

What do you want Sony to do for you in its d-slr camera developments?

Dave
 
gil said:
original ranted views :). No used furthering your agony :). On my old lenses, you forgot some old Exactas, Tele-Xenar, $10 and sometimes free MC/MD and M42 mounts. Oops, I also have TX/T4 lenses. LOL. If you want to get rid of your old lenses, just let me know. Seriously, just take it easy and enjoy photography.

p.s. Care to post some pictures from your newer and much superior lenses. Who knows, I might upgrade my antiquated lenses to your level (if I can afford). :).
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
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Why is everything about you? This thread isn't about you or your lenses. Why would you twist it around to be about you?

Your ego is just enormous!

The web is full of photos taken with all kinds photos taken with newer lenses. There are even some right here on DPR.

Now was that so difficult to figure out?
 
casperskitty said:
I guess I just don't know how I can enjoy shooting. Whatever will I do without all of those features?

I don't see how not having any of those features will keep me from attaining my goal which is simply to make images.
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There's your answer. If your only goal is to make more images, snap away.
Making better images, more easily, that's a bit loftier a goal.
casperskitty said:
I think I am going to avoid the forum again and just go outside and shoot rather than listening to people complain here instead of doing the same.
--
Jennifer

'Having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting, it may not be logical but it is often true.' Mr. Spock, Star Trek
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Lucas_ said:
jimb100 said:
................................................
What bothers me is the lack of cameras without all the expected features.

How can you claim to have a camera line when you don't have any cameras (let alone multiple cameras at different price points) that offer the traditional features that advanced amateurs and semi-pros require.

The real problem with Sony dslrs is that they have a couple of expensive full frame cameras with a few features missing and a lot of entry level cameras with lots of features missing.
Click to expand...
Sony's FF cameras A900/850 have it all for photography, nothing really needed is missing! Well, no LV but Intelligent Preview works fine, also some photographers still need to use non-chipped lenses ( quite old ) and the "A" mode doesn't work with those, but MF works fine in that case...!
Click to expand...
Lucas_ said:
Isn't my quote just a few lines above??? "a few features missing"???
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Isn't that what you just said?
Lucas_ said:
Lucas_ said:
Where are the cameras with all the modes needed, MLU, depth of field preview, fast autofocus, accurate white balance, good jpegs, iso in the viewfinder, build quality, sealing, micro adjustment, big viewfinders, etc.?

Make all the crippled newby cameras you want and let the p&s crowd rave about face detection and fast live view, but you don't have a camera line if you don't have anything with full features.
Click to expand...
Again, Sony does have those bodies.
Lucas_ said:
And by the way, Sony, stop charging more for lenses without IS. There's no advantage to internal stabilization if your lenses cost more than the competition's stabilized lenses.
Click to expand...
Well, when you add up the cost of several lenses with IS IMHO the SSS is an advantage. Of course SSS is a big advantage when you already have non-stabilized lenses or want to buy third party lenses ( which currently are actually very good ).
Anyway I have to agree that some Sony lenses are quite overpriced.

... Lucas

--
Always having fun with photography ...

Starting a new gallery: http://lucaspix.smugmug.com/

Click to expand...
 
OldClicker said:
fjbyrne said:
OldClicker said:
OldClicker said:
And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?
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OldClicker said:
Their biggest characteristic, I think, is that they believe nothing will ever surpass the A700 as a basic camera. Nothing new will ever be invented that will improve upon the traditional features of this camera. For instance, no matter how good an EVF becomes, it should never take the place of (or even restrict) the OVF. They seem to be very much stuck on the mechanical systems of the last century. OK? - TF
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Another question if I may. What do you think the response on this forum would be to a camera which had everything the A700 has (OVF, MLU, DOF preview, etc) and added main sensor LV, more fps, video with fast AF and metering, HDR and some other goodies I can't think of?

--
Rick
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The forum is not a single entity and will go from full love to full hate on anything released??? I don't think that is what you are asking, but don't want to put words in your mouth. Also, at what price? - TF
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I agree the response would be varied. I am more interested in how you think the "believers" would respond to a camera like this. I think you believe that there are people that will never be happy with anything Sony does. There may be a couple but I don't think that is generally the case. I think that if Sony makes a camera with broad appeal - traditional and cutting edge features (the A5XX was most cutting edge features IMO) - they will get a camera with broad acceptance.

Price? Obviously it depends on the camera but IMO it should be around the original A700 IMO - $1500 US range. I would undercut the competition because Sony has to realize that at this point the Sony name cannot command the same price as Canon or Nikon (even if it is a better product) IMO.

--
Rick
 
Lucas_ said:
still need to use non-chipped lenses ( quite old ) and the "A" mode doesn't work with those, but MF works fine in that case...!
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Lucas, it has been said numerous times now, please wake up: it's not only about quite old normal lenses; it's also about microscopes, lensbabies, whatever gear a photographer wants to put in front of his top of the line camera body. You'd expect it to simply work, as there's nothing better to purchase after the top (in the same brand)...
 
Actually the rules do not mention discussing positively about a particular camera or feature.

It does howver state:

Bashing - Deliberately and repeatedly bashing the same brand, product or company will get you banned. If you have a complaint or comment to make then make it once and make sure you have facts to support it.

This is pretty clear to me.
 
fjbyrne said:
OldClicker said:
fjbyrne said:
OldClicker said:
fjbyrne said:
And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?
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fjbyrne said:
Their biggest characteristic, I think, is that they believe nothing will ever surpass the A700 as a basic camera. Nothing new will ever be invented that will improve upon the traditional features of this camera. For instance, no matter how good an EVF becomes, it should never take the place of (or even restrict) the OVF. They seem to be very much stuck on the mechanical systems of the last century. OK? - TF
Click to expand...
Another question if I may. What do you think the response on this forum would be to a camera which had everything the A700 has (OVF, MLU, DOF preview, etc) and added main sensor LV, more fps, video with fast AF and metering, HDR and some other goodies I can't think of?

--
Rick
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The forum is not a single entity and will go from full love to full hate on anything released??? I don't think that is what you are asking, but don't want to put words in your mouth. Also, at what price? - TF
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I agree the response would be varied. I am more interested in how you think the "believers" would respond to a camera like this. I think you believe that there are people that will never be happy with anything Sony does. There may be a couple but I don't think that is generally the case.
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Actually, I would put it as Sony will not, in the foreseeable future, make anything that will make them happy. If Sony actually built an A700 replacement that just made the current features better, I think they would be elated.
fjbyrne said:
I think that if Sony makes a camera with broad appeal - traditional and cutting edge features (the A5XX was most cutting edge features IMO) - they will get a camera with broad acceptance.
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I don't think so. I see two completely different philosophies of what photography is in the A700 and A550.
  • That still camera design has evolved to the point where only improving the current features is necessary (or even acceptable).
  • That photography is just crossing over the brink into an exciting new digital age.
I cannot see reconciling both in one camera design without unacceptable compromises and very high prices.
fjbyrne said:
Price? Obviously it depends on the camera but IMO it should be around the original A700 IMO - $1500 US range. I would undercut the competition because Sony has to realize that at this point the Sony name cannot command the same price as Canon or Nikon (even if it is a better product) IMO.
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I don't think that you can put together what you have listed for anywhere near $1500 with technology that I know of. How are you going to get Fast AF Video without the Fast AF sensor? You're trying to put together a system that keeps the old mechanical plus optimizes the new digital and that doesn't work. They compromise each other. Also, I don't think Sony can compete directly with Canikon by undercutting them. Canikon are very good companies. Sony has to make something different to gain market share and it's very hard to remain traditional and make something different. Now if Sony can pull out some breakthrough technology, like inexpensive main sensor fast focus, who knows. Except that most breakthrough technologies come from small, highly flexible companies (that Sony would have to buy) and we probably would have heard about it already.
fjbyrne said:
--
Rick
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TF
 
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