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I Don't Care What Features Sony Leaves Out of Cameras - And Why Should You?

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jimb100 said:
tompower53 said:
It does appear that Sony made a serious error on the developement of the A7?? and the camera was delayed and the A700 was discontinued to early.

Because they screwed up on that does not mean they abandoned features we need in the A7??. It is possible but we won't know that until we see it.

Just have to wait and see or you can jump to another brand instead.
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tom power
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Of course. And meanwhile, I could care less what features are in or out of cameras I don't ever plan to use. But that was right in the title of the thread.
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So really this thread was just a fishing exercise to get the usual Sony is damned/no iits not threads which we have all seen before. While I dont disagree that the new line lack features (although i think to say the full frame is missing some is stretching a point - and yes even with the a mode manual lens issue) why repeat something that has been done to death already? There are no further arguments left on this issue as far as i can see. In summary posters either think the new cameras are noticeably lacking in comparison to the competition (and as a corollary to this stance if the A7XX is similarly lacking they are off) or they think they are ok anyway and produce stunning, in some cases, pictures.

I'm not in any particular camp, I enjoy my camera and the results from it,which i very occassionally post. But i would make one point (and i have not tried the new cameras so cannot speak from any qualified viewpoint) I would sort of take issue with generally. when i started photography i had an old praktika manual camera on which i learned the basics. Are those that say the new line up is so limited saying theyt are less use than that old camera to develope photographic skills on? Just a thought.

I

--

Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too? - Douglas Adams
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rb56/
 
tompower53 said:
This constant carping over and over is tiresome. Once people have made their point multiple times it is enough. We all know that Sony has made some mistakes. If they can fix them good if not we just will have to move on.
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One can say the same thing about the constant pushing of the a550 right at the moment. How many new threads is that to repeat the same thing. That it's a "perfect camera" for a specific individual. The problem is less pointing out flaws and more abusing those that do so.

Walt
 
MCromer said:
My Alpha 550 has an AEL button (and 2 press FEC).
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He was speaking of AEL-spot toggle mode which is very useful in my experience. This is absolutely a firmware change and it is quite mind boggling to me why Sony didn't include it in the A5XX series.

--
Rick
 
fjbyrne said:
MCromer said:
My Alpha 550 has an AEL button (and 2 press FEC).
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He was speaking of AEL-spot toggle mode which is very useful in my experience. This is absolutely a firmware change and it is quite mind boggling to me why Sony didn't include it in the A5XX series.

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Rick
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Very useful I love that AEL spot toggle. Let's face it few use AEL as exposure is locked in honeycomb metering with AF confirm. And most use that.

AEL spot toggle made easy access to spot metering. Great. And you have a choice about it too.

It's nice touches like this that really don't help Sony. And yeah I can change WB and ISO with my eye to the VF, impossible to do on a A5xx model

Let's be blunt. The A5xx range is so basic and feature crippled. It would be almost impossible to simplify it any more.

Minolta also have a great "hold the exp comp" button and you got a 3 shot bracket at 0.5 stop. That's another good idea that could be user customisable.

But Sony don't like good ideas..they like it "Simple"

Doh........
 
original ranted views :). No used furthering your agony :). On my old lenses, you forgot some old Exactas, Tele-Xenar, $10 and sometimes free MC/MD and M42 mounts. Oops, I also have TX/T4 lenses. LOL. If you want to get rid of your old lenses, just let me know. Seriously, just take it easy and enjoy photography.

p.s. Care to post some pictures from your newer and much superior lenses. Who knows, I might upgrade my antiquated lenses to your level (if I can afford). :).
--
Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.
 
WaltKnapp said:
OldClicker said:
The A5xx series does not in any way resemble an A100 and I'm willing to bet that there will be some real whining gone wild from the A700 Believers when the A7xx is released.

The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.
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Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around. So, what were Sony's in company goals for these cameras, and how close did they come to meeting them? And compare that to all Sony's other models while you are at it.

Or any actual detailed info on the future Sony DSLRs, just for the next ten years will be ok if you don't have it.

Walt
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good point, however the D40's and D3000/D5000 Canon T1000 etc were not around so what Sony was offering was what was in the mix..... than you have market saturation and the influx of entry level cameras came about. Only so many upgraders out there versus first timers.

Does anyone remember the Canon T line? T50/T70/T90? The T50 was $249 some 25 years ago all program no A, S, M modes only scene selection P, Portrait, Macro and ISO settings. no MLU, no DOF. no auto focus.... That is how I got into SLR the cheap route. Than bought a Minolta 450si after my T/50 was stolen.

There are lots of buyers who just do not need the basic set up that most of the complainers are calling for regardless of cost. It's a feature set.
 
jimb100 said:
OldClicker said:
fjbyrne said:
OldClicker said:
fjbyrne said:
OldClicker said:
WaltKnapp said:
OldClicker said:
The A5xx series does not in any way resemble an A100 and I'm willing to bet that there will be some real whining gone wild from the A700 Believers when the A7xx is released.

The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.
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Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around. So, what were Sony's in company goals for these cameras, and how close did they come to meeting them? And compare that to all Sony's other models while you are at it.
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I have the same sales data you do and that never slowed you down. The only difference is the fact (a rarity here) that Sony quit making both with no replacement. So, whatever their goals were - fail.
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In your opinion they never replaced the A100. I agree they never correctly replaced the A100 - that would be the A5XX plus the missing features from the A100.

The jury is still out on the A700 until we see the A7XX.
jimb100 said:
jimb100 said:
Or any actual detailed info on the future Sony DSLRs, just for the next ten years will be ok if you don't have it.
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I can't even figure out where this came from. Because I think you and the 'others' are going to hate the A7xx? A wager?
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Why do you say that? Do you believe they will be stripping features there too?
--
Rick
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The A5xx is way more camera than the 100.
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As well it should be since it is 4 years newer. Regardless it still occupies the same position in the lineup IMO.
jimb100 said:
I think the A7xx will be a Sony with modern features added and those Sony thinks are no longer necessary left off. I have nothing to back this up (nor am I saying it's good or bad) other than what I consider common sense. If what I envision is true, the believers will not be happy. - TF
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And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?

--
Rick
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Their biggest characteristic, I think, is that they believe nothing will ever surpass the A700 as a basic camera. Nothing new will ever be invented that will improve upon the traditional features of this camera. For instance, no matter how good an EVF becomes, it should never take the place of (or even restrict) the OVF. They seem to be very much stuck on the mechanical systems of the last century. OK? - TF
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And just how did you gain this insight into what advanced amateurs think or believe?

Who embraced autofocus, metering and the dslr. Who embraced 35mm, leaving 2 1/4 square and larger? Not newbies getting into the hobby with their first camera, that's for sure.

The point you miss is that advanced amateurs and up will embrace any technology that makes it easier to take better pictures.
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Where did you read "advanced amateurs"? Do you just make this up?

I agree that most will embrace new technology that makes getting the image easier. Some however miss the exclusiveness that came with difficulty. ‘A700 believers’ would be in the latter category.

TF
 
I guess I just don't know how I can enjoy shooting. Whatever will I do without all of those features?

I don't see how not having any of those features will keep me from attaining my goal which is simply to make images.

I think I am going to avoid the forum again and just go outside and shoot rather than listening to people complain here instead of doing the same.
--
Jennifer

'Having is not so pleasing a thing as wanting, it may not be logical but it is often true.' Mr. Spock, Star Trek
 
fjbyrne said:
OldClicker said:
fjbyrne said:
And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?
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fjbyrne said:
Their biggest characteristic, I think, is that they believe nothing will ever surpass the A700 as a basic camera. Nothing new will ever be invented that will improve upon the traditional features of this camera. For instance, no matter how good an EVF becomes, it should never take the place of (or even restrict) the OVF. They seem to be very much stuck on the mechanical systems of the last century. OK? - TF
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Another question if I may. What do you think the response on this forum would be to a camera which had everything the A700 has (OVF, MLU, DOF preview, etc) and added main sensor LV, more fps, video with fast AF and metering, HDR and some other goodies I can't think of?

--
Rick
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As long as quick nav and the bottons remain the same, be under $1400 with Kit lens and I would say a perfect Gem!!
 
fjbyrne said:
OldClicker said:
fjbyrne said:
And what exactly is a "believer"? Someone who feels that Sony can and should make cameras with traditional and cutting-edge features?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
fjbyrne said:
Their biggest characteristic, I think, is that they believe nothing will ever surpass the A700 as a basic camera. Nothing new will ever be invented that will improve upon the traditional features of this camera. For instance, no matter how good an EVF becomes, it should never take the place of (or even restrict) the OVF. They seem to be very much stuck on the mechanical systems of the last century. OK? - TF
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Another question if I may. What do you think the response on this forum would be to a camera which had everything the A700 has (OVF, MLU, DOF preview, etc) and added main sensor LV, more fps, video with fast AF and metering, HDR and some other goodies I can't think of?

--
Rick
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The forum is not a single entity and will go from full love to full hate on anything released??? I don't think that is what you are asking, but don't want to put words in your mouth. Also, at what price? - TF
 
fjbyrne said:
Gene Tenold said:
I believe the a5xx series replaced the a300 & a350 they have all the same features plus added ones as well as far better ISO performance and better LCDs.
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Answering only for myself of course...

I agree that the a5xx series is a natural upgrade from an A3XX camera but it is not a replacement IMO. For APS-C Sony cameras the A2XX/A3XX are the entry-level, the A5xx are the mid-range and the A7XX are the high-end. The A100 was a mid-range camera when it was introduced since it was a derivative of the mid-range KM 5D. So to me the natural successor or replacement of the A100 is the A5XX cameras.
fjbyrne said:
I hate to say it but the a550 that replaced my a350 has better ISO performance than my a700 with v4. So I hope and would think that if or when the replacement for the a700 comes out it will have the same or better ISO performance.
Gene
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I certainly expect the A7XX to share in the advanced introduced in the A5XX series and hopefully have many of its own.

--
Rick
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As an A350 owner, I would agree that the A550 would be a really nice upgrade, but I think the new buyer that was atracted to the A350 would now be looking at the A380. - TF
 
WaltKnapp said:
gfrensen said:
Youre telling the entry level cameras are missing a lot of features. What features do you mean? MLU? A feature used by a special group of users like astrophotographers (like me) and Macro users. Hardly the usergroup that |Sony is aiming at with the A2xx and A3xx range (a little strange they let it out in the A5xx serie though).
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Most landscape shooters use both tripods and MLU. So do most who use long tele, especially the pros in these fields. Pros use MLU any time they can regardless of the type of shot.
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And is this the target auxdiance for the beginner camera= I hardly think so. Yes maybe one or two use one as backup, but that is a very small market.
WaltKnapp said:
WaltKnapp said:
DOF preview? An option very hard to use in the small OVF of the beginners cameras (true for every brand, try to use it on a rebel or cheap Nikon).
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So it takes a little effort, you have to look through the OVF. Is that so hard? Those who can use the DOF all started out as beginners by learning how to do it. So can anyone that wants to.
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Dide you ever looked in the small and rather dim OVF of a beginners DSLR? Wnd did you stop down to a small apperture? Could you use it? Realy? I don't think so! It is an option, nice to have, in a camera with a good bright OF like the A700 class camera and up. There it ihas some use. In the lower end cameras it is an almost useless feature.
WaltKnapp said:
WaltKnapp said:
What other most important features are missing?
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It's a long list, which is different for different photographers.
WaltKnapp said:
I do think the A200, A300 and A350 did sell quite good (not as good as the same Canikon cameras, but that is hardly possible at the moment)
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Yep Canikon has those "unneeded features", hard to compete with that.
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No it is hard to compeete with the big two. Look at the other brands, with very well featured cameras, just like the big two, do they compeete with them? NO!
WaltKnapp said:
WaltKnapp said:
There is just one thing I can tell to anybody: Buy the camera you like and use it. Don't complain here about missing features etc. Tell Sony directly, that is the only way to go.
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Sony closed the only direct to Sony forum, Backstage 101 at the beginning of the month.
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Sony still has Email, snail mail, telefone etc. So complain there!
WaltKnapp said:
These forums are read by Sony employees. Therefore what's said here does get to Sony directly.
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Are you sure?
WaltKnapp said:
Walt
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WaltKnapp said:
OldClicker said:
WaltKnapp said:
WaltKnapp said:
The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.
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Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around. So, what were Sony's in company goals for these cameras, and how close did they come to meeting them? And compare that to all Sony's other models while you are at it.
Click to expand...
I have the same sales data you do and that never slowed you down. The only difference is the fact (a rarity here) that Sony quit making both with no replacement. So, whatever their goals were - fail.
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Well I have made a point of actually asking people shopping for DSLRs. And paying attention to what they said. None had video on their must have list, for instance.
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You're not the only one that talks to people. I have asked buyers also and I guarantee no one has ever mentioned MLU or A mode for non-compliant lenses. The difference is that I realize this anecdotal evidence means absolutely nothing.
WaltKnapp said:
Sony also quit making the R1 and a whole lot of other cameras. In your system that means the R1 was a failure as well. And by extension all the features on it?
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I don't see any reasoning behind your "extension", but Sony obviously decided that the R1 was not the best use of their resources. Seems obvious.
WaltKnapp said:
WaltKnapp said:
WaltKnapp said:
Or any actual detailed info on the future Sony DSLRs, just for the next ten years will be ok if you don't have it.
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I can't even figure out where this came from. Because I think you and the 'others' are going to hate the A7xx? A wager?
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You said Sony would never do something again. What do you have to back that up? Nothing?
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"Never" You're making things up again. You've even quoted what I actually said, "...I can't see Sony making that mistake again. "
WaltKnapp said:
That's hardly going to be something that can be tested in just one generation. Never is a long, long time, I let you off easy with ten years. Only 4 or 5 generations past the a700.
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I was talking about the "A7xx" which is the common name for the higher end APS-C DSL that Sony may introduce later this year. My longer term Sony 'forecast' has been APS-C EVILs and FF DSLRs, but that is only what I see from what I have seen. I claim no special insight.
WaltKnapp said:
I'll decide how I like the a7xx when there is something known to decide on. Meanwhile I enjoy photography with my "failed" a700s.
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And so will I. If I could only have one body, it would not be the A700, but I like it a lot.
WaltKnapp said:
Walt
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TF
 
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