I Don't Care What Features Sony Leaves Out of Cameras - And Why Should You?

It does appear that Sony made a serious error on the developement of the A7?? and the camera was delayed and the A700 was discontinued to early.

Because they screwed up on that does not mean they abandoned features we need in the A7??. It is possible but we won't know that until we see it.

Just have to wait and see or you can jump to another brand instead.
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tom power

Fybyrne said:

In your opinion they never replaced the A100. I agree they never correctly replaced the A100 - that would be the A5XX plus the missing features from the A100.

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Well you say they never correctly replaced the A100 but the A200 all the way through the A550 are priced less than the A100 at it's introduction. The A700 just US$100 more I think?

Would the A700 not have qualified as the replacement? A camera that cost slightly more and had many improved features.

So I guess it is all relevant to what exactly you mean by "replacement". I think what Sony did was offer a slighly lesser camera for about 1/2 the introductory price of the A100 - the A200. Seems fair enough.
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tom power

What is the big thing with ISO 100?

I can't even remember the last time I used it on my A700 but I think maybe about a year ago with a bright day at a waterfall.

My guess is they changed the parameters of the sensor so they could boost the ISO toward the high end which most people would be happier to have. Just my guess I don't think they just "took it out" if you know what I mean.
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tom power

Reasonable enough, I hope you see the point I'm making too .

--
http://www.AlphaMountWorld.com

Did I make you participate in this thread?

You sound like you have no control over what threads you read.

Oh woe is me, I can't stop reading threads critical of Sony but I hate them so.

Docno said:

...some of us are just getting tired of wading through the thread-titles about the same old rants before we get to a discussion on something new or some wonderful images someone has taken with their under-featured sony camera.

--
Galleries: http://picasaweb.google.com.au/glennjude

Sony a900, a700; CZ24-70mm, SAL70-300mmG, 50mm F1.4, 100mm F2.8 macro, CZ16-80mm, KM11-18mm, SAL18-250mm

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OldClicker said:

OldClicker said:

OldClicker said:

The A100 and A700 were Minolta carry-overs and I can't see Sony making that mistake again. It's been a loosing proposition twice already.

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Do you have any actual sales numbers to back that up? Seems to be an awful lot of a100s and a700s around. So, what were Sony's in company goals for these cameras, and how close did they come to meeting them? And compare that to all Sony's other models while you are at it.

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I have the same sales data you do and that never slowed you down. The only difference is the fact (a rarity here) that Sony quit making both with no replacement. So, whatever their goals were - fail.

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Well I have made a point of actually asking people shopping for DSLRs. And paying attention to what they said. None had video on their must have list, for instance.

Sony also quit making the R1 and a whole lot of other cameras. In your system that means the R1 was a failure as well. And by extension all the features on it?

OldClicker said:

OldClicker said:

Or any actual detailed info on the future Sony DSLRs, just for the next ten years will be ok if you don't have it.

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I can't even figure out where this came from. Because I think you and the 'others' are going to hate the A7xx? A wager?

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You said Sony would never do something again. What do you have to back that up? Nothing? That's hardly going to be something that can be tested in just one generation. Never is a long, long time, I let you off easy with ten years. Only 4 or 5 generations past the a700.

I'll decide how I like the a7xx when there is something known to decide on. Meanwhile I enjoy photography with my "failed" a700s.

Walt

Graham Best said:

I see many posts encouraging users to use the camera that makes them happy. I could care less whether you or anyone else chooses to shoot with a brand other than Sony.

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Graham Best said:

What I do find tiresome is the constant Sony bashing. This forum is made up of users. Sony provides no sanction or support of any kind. To me, this is a place to pass along tips, share some photos, or have a question answered. No one here can provide any answers regarding Sony policy, so why continue to whine?

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Graham Best said:

If you have a problem with Sony, whether it's the direction their DSLR's are taking, their pricing, or any other problem, why not address it to Sony? Sony employee's may read this forum, or not. They definitely read questions posed to Sony directly. Whether that question is answered, or passed along up the chain, I have no idea; but I think you have a greater chance of your thought being noticed by someone who mattered there then here.

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This constant carping over and over is tiresome. Once people have made their point multiple times it is enough. We all know that Sony has made some mistakes. If they can fix them good if not we just will have to move on.

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tom power

fjbyrne said:

Another question if I may. What do you think the response on this forum would be to a camera which had everything the A700 has (OVF, MLU, DOF preview, etc) and added main sensor LV, more fps, video with fast AF and metering, HDR and some other goodies I can't think of?

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The devil is in the details. In the IQ of the photos. In the range of photos the can and can't take. In the interactions of the various parts and functions of the camera.

Some will like it, some won't. Getting all that in without compromising some of it is the problem.

I think it will live and die on still photography, however.

Walt

gil said:

jimb100 said:

If Sony wants to sell an A560 without a sensor, that's OK with me. When no one buys it they'll learn a lesson.

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So the above is not a rant on how stupid you want Sony to be? When no one buys their product, that is their problem. They are having lessons already left and right (betamax, big screen TV, mini-disc, etc.) and your wish is just too late.

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Wow, I didn't even think of those old Sony miscues, thanks for reminding me. Of course you may convince some newbies reading your post that Sony may not be their best choice. Shame on you.

gil said:

gil said:

If not enough people (and this appears to be the case) buy their cameras without MLU, depth of field preview, etc, that with get their attention.

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And that is not a rant as it is the same thing as the above?

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That is simply a statement of fact. Do you disagree?

gil said:

gil said:

What bothers me is the lack of cameras without all the expected features.

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Do you have a camera that has all the features you need? If yes, just use it and enjoy life. How do you define expected features? I assume it is your expected features and not universal. My expected features will surely be different from yours although with overlapping ones.

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I expect a Sony advance amateur camera to have the same features as their competitors equivalent models and perhaps a little more as they need to try harder to gain market share.

Why is this concept so difficult for you to grasp?

gil said:

gil said:

How can you claim to have a camera line when you don't have any cameras (let alone multiple cameras at different price points) that offer the traditional features that advanced amateurs and semi-pros require.

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Again, how do you define traditional features? I have used the A100, A700, A900, A850 and A550 and I was able to get usable results from those cameras. You must be a pro or a super expert if those are still lacking to produce some usable pics.

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I don't care what you were able to do with a 20 year old camera with a Quantary lens and a wobbly tripod. What is the point? We are talking about new equipment here and Sony keeping up with competitors.

gil said:

gil said:

The real problem with Sony dslrs is that they have a couple of expensive full frame cameras with a few features missing and a lot of entry level cameras with lots of features missing.

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Expensive full frame compared to what? Last time I checked, Canon and Nikon FF still holds the price points for FF bodies. Did you make a survey to know what is the real problem? I don't have any problem if this is stated as "my or I" rather some generalization. I am not privy to their sales figure and strategy that I can't even make a guess. Lucky are those who can make a guess.

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Those here who have worked in marketing for major corporations can guess. Its OK that you can't.

gil said:

gil said:

Where are the cameras with all the modes needed, MLU, depth of field preview, fast autofocus, accurate white balance, good jpegs, iso in the viewfinder, build quality, sealing, micro adjustment, big viewfinders, etc.?

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So where are they? Did you buy one?

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The new Canon comes close. Closer than anything Sony has released. But lets see what the new A7xx has. Sony might surprise us and I won't need to sell off my lenses. Of course, I'm sure your dusty old Quantary will still work on it.

gil said:

gil said:

Make all the crippled newby cameras you want and let the p&s crowd rave about face detection and fast live view, but you don't have a camera line if you don't have anything with full features.

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Aha, an elitist as if newbies can't take satisfying pics. Define full features and what current camera has it. If available, please buy one so that you can end your misery (now there is the smiley). Maybe Sony will make your wish come true - oops, already there.

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Who said anything about newbies pictures. You love to twist the words, although its pretty obvious when they printed right above. Its really shameless to set up a strawman when the quote is two lines above.

gil said:

gil said:

And by the way, Sony, stop charging more for lenses without IS. There's no advantage to internal stabilization if your lenses cost more than the competition's stabilized lenses.

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I don't know. You must be a pro to demand the best as I am content already with old, manual and 3rd party lenses. I don't even have a Sony lens. Ok, seriously, it is economies of scale. We need to buy one first so that they can make more and distribute the cost better.
--

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Once again, why is this all about you? If you like your old, dusty, Quantary, good for you. Who cares?

gil said:

Cheers,
gil - San Jose, CA
Cheap Lens, JPG and 100% Handholding Provocateur
Like happiness, photography is often better created than pursued.

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tompower53 said:

It does appear that Sony made a serious error on the developement of the A7?? and the camera was delayed and the A700 was discontinued to early.

Because they screwed up on that does not mean they abandoned features we need in the A7??. It is possible but we won't know that until we see it.

Just have to wait and see or you can jump to another brand instead.
--
tom power

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Of course. And meanwhile, I could care less what features are in or out of cameras I don't ever plan to use. But that was right in the title of the thread.

Gene Tenold said:

I sure wish they did not take out the ISO-100, and the new position of the on-off switch took a little bit to get used to. Thanks for the correction, maybe if we could all be more civil towards each other and not bash the series camera the other has, this forum could be what it was when I started in 2005 when there were more people willing to help out no matter which series you had.

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When it started in 2005 the R1 folks occupied more or less the role the a550 people occupy today. The more experienced people from DSLR came mostly from Minolta people. In particular 5D and 7D users.

And the big campaign at the time was to throw those Minolta people out. And get all the P&S features of the R1 in. Experience was no more valued then than now.

Little has changed, it was just the same then. I joined this group the day it was formed.

I will admit I did try to help folks more then. Abuse wears down a desire to help.

Walt

tompower53 said:

My guess is they changed the parameters of the sensor so they could boost the ISO toward the high end which most people would be happier to have. Just my guess I don't think they just "took it out" if you know what I mean.

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It's much harder to widen the range of sensitivity of a sensor, so pushing the upper end often has the effect of loosing at the lower, either outright or in IQ. The 100 ISO in the a700 is a mathematically derived one from an actual higher ISO.

One can get around the higher sensitivity somewhat with ND filters. I pretty much just stick with the native ISO of the sensor on the a700, which is 200.

In any case my favorite slide film was at first 16 ISO and then was updated to 25 ISO. 100 ISO was kind of high speed stuff back then. A lot is getting used to new things.

Walt

Sorry but, personnally I need ISO100 very, very much. I shoot a lot with strobes and flash heads in kind of studio setups or even outside in full light + strobes. I often used ND filters for keeping the lenses wide for DOF control while using strobes... so ISO100 is a must and I would add tha an ISO50 to 80 would be very much appreciated by any strobist.

Even though they repeat themselves way too often, the MLU, DOF preview, AEL lock button advocates are right to insist that Sony keep those features alive, in some models at least.

--
Normand
My 365 SP photography challenge :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cafemoka/

tompower53 said:

Would the A700 not have qualified as the replacement? A camera that cost slightly more and had many improved features.

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The a700 is so close in features and design to the 7D it's quite clear that's what it was replacing.

One of the problems is that Minolta brought out the 5D without a great lot of difference to the 7D. More features than most beginner cameras. Sony re-established a significant difference when they started moving on from the a100, which was largely featured like the 5D. So in a way it was not replaced, even with the a550. Most a100 users have long ago decided to move up or down from the camera. Some are hanging on for what may never come. That could also be the fate of the 7D - a700 users too, there may not be an appropriate level camera produced. We will know someday on that. In the same way, in time, that may also happen to the a900 users. There is never any guarantee that any camera or camera level will continue.

Walt

Normand Desjardins said:

Sorry but, personnally I need ISO100 very, very much. I shoot a lot with strobes and flash heads in kind of studio setups or even outside in full light + strobes. I often used ND filters for keeping the lenses wide for DOF control while using strobes... so ISO100 is a must and I would add tha an ISO50 to 80 would be very much appreciated by any strobist.

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One can easily get quite a few stops of change with ND. I see no reason to expect the higher ISO race to end anytime soon. So we just change how we do things. Film techniques have to be modified or outright changed.

Walt

al. said:

it makes sense to keep track with the replacements. For me, no. My needs are different from yours, and are likely satisfied with the next release of A7xx or A5xx. If those needs will not be met, there is always another brand to evaluate and buy. If I sell all my A mount stuff, I'll actually break even or come out ahead.

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Even changing brands one cannot assume what's there will still be there when needed.

Wait until you actually try to sell a large system and buy a new equivalent system before you will really know how that comes out.

Walt

Not a problem for me.

WaltKnapp said:

al. said:

it makes sense to keep track with the replacements. For me, no. My needs are different from yours, and are likely satisfied with the next release of A7xx or A5xx. If those needs will not be met, there is always another brand to evaluate and buy. If I sell all my A mount stuff, I'll actually break even or come out ahead.

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Even changing brands one cannot assume what's there will still be there when needed.

Wait until you actually try to sell a large system and buy a new equivalent system before you will really know how that comes out.

Walt

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Graham Best said:

What I do find tiresome is the constant Sony bashing. This forum is made up of users. Sony provides no sanction or support of any kind. To me, this is a place to pass along tips, share some photos, or have a question answered. No one here can provide any answers regarding Sony policy, so why continue to whine?

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I don't believe that's the purpose DPReview has in mind for these forums.

Tips have variable and often quite strong opinions on which is right.

Sharing photos leads directly back to equipment discussion.

What I find tiresome is the constant people bashing. Sony hardly gets bashed compared to that.

Graham Best said:

If you have a problem with Sony, whether it's the direction their DSLR's are taking, their pricing, or any other problem, why not address it to Sony? Sony employee's may read this forum, or not. They definitely read questions posed to Sony directly. Whether that question is answered, or passed along up the chain, I have no idea; but I think you have a greater chance of your thought being noticed by someone who mattered there then here.

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Sony employees have consistently stated this forum is read by them.

And Sony just closed Backstage 101, their forums for directly getting to them. With vague promises something new might be set up someday months down the road.

And if you thought the chances were better there, you must not have participated.

Walt

al. said:

Not a problem for me.

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Give it time

Walt

"Do you just want to complain?" -jimb100

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=34995061

Thank you, jimb100, for the laugh! First, I started laughing at the title of the thread, "I Don't Care What Features Sony Leaves Out of Cameras - And Why Should You?"

I nearly fell out of my chair laughing. But, the ultimate was your response to those who took your joke seriously. "Do you just want to complain?" -jimb100

Ahahahahah!

jimb100 said:

If Sony wants to sell an A560 without a sensor, that's OK with me. When no one buys it they'll learn a lesson.

If not enough people (and this appears to be the case) buy their cameras without MLU, depth of field preview, etc, that with get their attention.

What bothers me is the lack of cameras without all the expected features.

How can you claim to have a camera line when you don't have any cameras (let alone multiple cameras at different price points) that offer the traditional features that advanced amateurs and semi-pros require.

The real problem with Sony dslrs is that they have a couple of expensive full frame cameras with a few features missing and a lot of entry level cameras with lots of features missing.

Where are the cameras with all the modes needed, MLU, depth of field preview, fast autofocus, accurate white balance, good jpegs, iso in the viewfinder, build quality, sealing, micro adjustment, big viewfinders, etc.?

Make all the crippled newby cameras you want and let the p&s crowd rave about face detection and fast live view, but you don't have a camera line if you don't have anything with full features.

And by the way, Sony, stop charging more for lenses without IS. There's no advantage to internal stabilization if your lenses cost more than the competition's stabilized lenses.

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