Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

Christian Behr · Oct 1, 2002

Okay, some questions for the twins. The Kodak information sheet on the 14n is long on the digital side, but a little light on the camera side. Maybe the Nikon people are up to speed on this camera, but the rest of use need some more information. First, what is the anticipated shutter life? Same as the N80 or has it been beefed up? (Like I know what it is on a N80!) This can be a real issue with a digital camera, as there is some tendency to shoot more images than you would with film.

Next, will the camera have the capability to float the ISO? I asked this on another thread, but the idea is you fix both the shutter speed and the aperture, and the camera sets the appropriate ISO in real time based on the in camera meter readings. (Okay, this is about both the digital side and the camera side.)

Other things, what is the pattern of the focus points? Does the selected focus point light up? Which focus points are the most sensitive? Is it possible to meter off the selected focus point if it is not the center point? Can I lock both the focus and the meter reading (or does the in camera meter reading continue to change after you lock the focus point?) What metering choices do I have? Is spot metering available, how large is the spot? What shoe mount strobes work best with this camera? Someone reported that a fully charged battery was good for 200 shots?!? Really? It's gotta be better than that (I hope!). For those of us that travel, will the power sources be switchable so I can use the chargers and direct power in Europe and the US? Will I need a separate charger for Europe? Can I run the camera off of power in the studio and forget about the battery?

I know these things are probably obvious to Nikon owners, but us Canon guys are unfamiliar with this body (and it is manufactured to Kodak spec's by Nikon in any event). I have poured over the information on the Kodak site, and while the information about the sensor is detailed and fascinating, this is still a camera I will have to learn how to use. You will need to get more information about the camera and it's operation up on the site as soon as possible (I know you're thrilled with the chip, and you should be, but this is still a camera you're selling, not just a sensor.)

Oh, and can I crazy glue my EF zooms to the body and shoot in full manual?

Fish

--
John Fisher
Fashion and Commercial Photography
http://www.johnfisher.com
305 438-9930

Studio Address:
2045 NW 1st Avenue
Miami, Florida 33127

--
John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com

Louis · Oct 1, 2002

Ditto for Sigma SD9.

Louis

John Fisher said:
Okay, some questions for the twins. The Kodak information sheet on
the 14n is long on the digital side, but a little light on the
camera side. Maybe the Nikon people are up to speed on this camera,
but the rest of use need some more information. First, what is the
anticipated shutter life? Same as the N80 or has it been beefed up?
(Like I know what it is on a N80!) This can be a real issue with a
digital camera, as there is some tendency to shoot more images than
you would with film.

Next, will the camera have the capability to float the ISO? I asked
this on another thread, but the idea is you fix both the shutter
speed and the aperture, and the camera sets the appropriate ISO in
real time based on the in camera meter readings. (Okay, this is
about both the digital side and the camera side.)

Other things, what is the pattern of the focus points? Does the
selected focus point light up? Which focus points are the most
sensitive? Is it possible to meter off the selected focus point if
it is not the center point? Can I lock both the focus and the meter
reading (or does the in camera meter reading continue to change
after you lock the focus point?) What metering choices do I have?
Is spot metering available, how large is the spot? What shoe mount
strobes work best with this camera? Someone reported that a fully
charged battery was good for 200 shots?!? Really? It's gotta be
better than that (I hope!). For those of us that travel, will the
power sources be switchable so I can use the chargers and direct
power in Europe and the US? Will I need a separate charger for
Europe? Can I run the camera off of power in the studio and forget
about the battery?

I know these things are probably obvious to Nikon owners, but us
Canon guys are unfamiliar with this body (and it is manufactured to
Kodak spec's by Nikon in any event). I have poured over the
information on the Kodak site, and while the information about the
sensor is detailed and fascinating, this is still a camera I will
have to learn how to use. You will need to get more information
about the camera and it's operation up on the site as soon as
possible (I know you're thrilled with the chip, and you should be,
but this is still a camera you're selling, not just a sensor.)

Oh, and can I crazy glue my EF zooms to the body and shoot in full
manual?

Fish

--
John Fisher
Fashion and Commercial Photography
http://www.johnfisher.com
305 438-9930

Studio Address:
2045 NW 1st Avenue
Miami, Florida 33127

--
John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com

Ger Bee · Oct 2, 2002

John Fisher said:
Okay, some questions for the twins. The Kodak information sheet on
the 14n is long on the digital side, but a little light on the
camera side. Maybe the Nikon people are up to speed on this camera,
but the rest of use need some more information. First, what is the
anticipated shutter life? Same as the N80 or has it been beefed up?
(Like I know what it is on a N80!) This can be a real issue with a
digital camera, as there is some tendency to shoot more images than
you would with film.

Same as the N80

Christian Behr said:
Next, will the camera have the capability to float the ISO? I asked
this on another thread, but the idea is you fix both the shutter
speed and the aperture, and the camera sets the appropriate ISO in
real time based on the in camera meter readings. (Okay, this is
about both the digital side and the camera side.)

This is a function of the digital components.

All these answered must be tempered with the possibility that Kodak (or Fuji) changed them.

Focus five pattern fixed point select area in S-AF (focus priority) and C-AF (release priority).

Dynamic focus, close focus will focus on two separated items (well – better on the D1x) if contained within a large focus circle – this is my preferred AF assistant for me.

Area points can be manual or automatically selected

Sensitivity – I don’t know. However C-AF is more sensitive to lower light conditions and Dyn-AF

Yes it is possible to meter off any selected area point. I have spot metering rigged up this way for instance. The centre spot is used in flash only in some modes. Yes AE/AF lock is available. Metering, Matrix, Centre and spot – the spot is variable and I’d have to look up the manual to tell its size.

What shoe mount

Christian Behr said:
strobes work best with this camera? Someone reported that a fully
charged battery was good for 200 shots?!? Really? It's gotta be
better than that (I hope!). For those of us that travel, will the
power sources be switchable so I can use the chargers and direct
power in Europe and the US? Will I need a separate charger for
Europe? Can I run the camera off of power in the studio and forget
about the battery?

Not clear on what Kodak are allowing – but it seems to need the new DX flashguns from Nikon. It has a PC socket so standard here.

Battery – Kodak unknown (maybe not better than 200 shots but I’d expect great consistency). Chargers are usually universal nowadays. Mains power – Kodak (probably).

Christian Behr said:
Oh, and can I crazy glue my EF zooms to the body and shoot in full
manual?

Canon owners may expect a big different in the AF response from this machine. It is based on a prosumer N80 and it carries this CAM900 with it. For its class it is great, much better than the D60 for instance but a fair way behind the D1x – and that’s a fair way behind the best of Canon.

Whilst it sports many of the advanced AF tracking systems they only just work – the Nikkor AF-S professional lens range is the only lens range recommended to come as close as Nikon can to the best Canon glass.

Christian Behr said:
Fish

--
John Fisher
Fashion and Commercial Photography
http://www.johnfisher.com
305 438-9930

Studio Address:
2045 NW 1st Avenue
Miami, Florida 33127

--
John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com

--
Live life to the power of Nikon!!!

D2x, 18MP, FF (No X), 5 FPS, 20 Buffer, Li-Ion battery, D100 review and all for €7,000 -- You’re the man.

Christian Behr · Oct 2, 2002

Ger Bee said:
All these answered must be tempered with the possibility that Kodak
changed them.

Thanks Ger Bee, and I suspect all of your answers are correct. But that is the point isn't it? This is a Kodak camera and Kodak should be giving us all of the pertinent information on it's operational capabilities. We know from a previous answer by Phil Fennesy that Kodak has improved the operation of the rocker switch on the back of the camera (it's from a DCS 760), so perhaps they have beefed up the shutter as well.

Some of this is informational only. Canon (as an example) lays out the five focus points in the EOS 1n in a straight line, I suspect this camera follows the Nikon pattern of three across, three up and down. But something like the anticipated battery life is important as it means you will need several batteries if you only get 200 shots per charge. I have a client who has scheduled some work in eastern Europe, so the issue of the power supply is also important to me.

I'm not as concerned about the autofocus function (certainly a weakness in the D60) as I am about the metering (major weakness in the D60 for my work, there is no spot meter). Ger Bee, from your answer am I to understand the size of the spot can be varied using a custom function? That is interesting. The Pro 14n is from all appearances not something interesting so much as it is a "must buy immediately", but for $4,000 (and the cost of a new lens system) it is also a camera we would like to know as much as possible about.

Thanks for your response, perhaps we will get some additional information from Phil and/or Jay Kelbley.

Fish
--
John Fisher
Fashion and Commercial Photography
http://www.johnfisher.com
305 438-9930

Studio Address:
2045 NW 1st Avenue
Miami, Florida 33127

--
John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com

Thom Hogan · Oct 2, 2002

John Fisher said:
Next, will the camera have the capability to float the ISO? I asked
this on another thread, but the idea is you fix both the shutter
speed and the aperture, and the camera sets the appropriate ISO in
real time based on the in camera meter readings. (Okay, this is
about both the digital side and the camera side.)

I don't think you really want this capability. Certainly you don't want it the way Nikon implemented it on the D100. And even if the implementation was better than Nikon's, you'd still want to know WHAT ISO was being set as it happened, otherwise you'd have no way to evaluate what the noise impact might be.

Christian Behr said:
Other things, what is the pattern of the focus points? Does the
selected focus point light up? Which focus points are the most
sensitive? Is it possible to meter off the selected focus point if
it is not the center point? Can I lock both the focus and the meter
reading (or does the in camera meter reading continue to change
after you lock the focus point?) What metering choices do I have?
Is spot metering available, how large is the spot?

Well, assuming that Kodak hasn't somehow slipped in a change (it would be nearly impossible), I'll take a crack at these:

The focus point pattern is center, top, bottom, left, and right, just like all current Nikon bodies except the N55.
Yes, the focus point lights up. Whether it goes black or lit red is probably user-controllable by a CSM, as in the N80, D100, and S2.
The central focus area is by far the most sensitive. It has a second, wider pattern that is used in low light, and it is cross-hatched.
Spot metering "follows" the AF sensor in use, with a few exceptions. Matrix and flash metering takes note of the current AF sensor, and sometimes alters its strategy because of that.
Yes, you can lock both readings. You can also change the lock button to lock only one, or to be an AF On button.
The camera has matrix, center weight, and spot metering. The spot metering spot is variously stated as being 2 to 4% of the 35mm frame.

Christian Behr said:
What shoe mount
strobes work best with this camera?

If it's truly as stated, really only the SB-28DX and SB-80DX would be reasonable choices (the SB-50DX is a bit too low power, methinks).

Christian Behr said:
I know these things are probably obvious to Nikon owners,

Uh, you'd be surprised. I make a living off explaining these things to Nikon users... ; )

Christian Behr said:
Oh, and can I crazy glue my EF zooms to the body and shoot in full
manual?

Yeah, but the camera won't meter with them ; )

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D100
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

Christian Behr · Oct 2, 2002

Thom Hogan said:
I don't think you really want this capability. Certainly you don't
want it the way Nikon implemented it on the D100. And even if the
implementation was better than Nikon's, you'd still want to know
WHAT ISO was being set as it happened, otherwise you'd have no way
to evaluate what the noise impact might be.

First, thanks for the reply, Thom. Actually, I don't know what Nikon or anyone else has done with this, but being able to hand hold a zoom at 200 mm and not having to worry about the shutter speed dropping too low (I shoot a lot in aperture priority) would be cool. Fluctuations from 100 ISO to as much as 400 ISO should result in acceptable results if the Pro 14 produces images similar to other ditigal SLR's. Certainly this would be a feature only a digital SLR could offer, so it would seem like something interesting to fool around with.

Yeah, I've just been assuming that the N80 would be the model to follow so I'm learning as much as possible about things like the SB-80DX. Still, it would be good to have this info come directly from Kodak, as not everyone buying this camera has a bag full of Nikon gear.

Boy Thom, 14mp, full frame, $4,000! Pretty exciting, huh? Who'da thunk? And available before Christmas. (Okay, I'm not crazy about $4,000, but I wouldn't have been crazy about $400, and it sure beats the heck out of $9,000!).

Fish
--
John FisherMiami, Florida http://www.johnfisher.com

Thom Hogan · Oct 3, 2002

John Fisher said:
First, thanks for the reply, Thom. Actually, I don't know what
Nikon or anyone else has done with this, but being able to hand
hold a zoom at 200 mm and not having to worry about the shutter
speed dropping too low (I shoot a lot in aperture priority) would
be cool.

That certainly isn't the way Nikon implemented it. The issue is simple: as you boost ISO, you increase noise. Thus the implementation changes shutter speeds first and ISO last. You're asking for the opposite, I see.

Christian Behr said:
Fluctuations from 100 ISO to as much as 400 ISO should
result in acceptable results if the Pro 14 produces images similar
to other ditigal SLR's.

Perhaps. But my point was that every photograph would have an upper limit to what they wanted ISO "pushed" to (due to their individual tolerance for noise), so you need either (1) some indicator of what the camera is doing, preferably in the viewfinder; or (2) some way of restricting the highest value the camera can set automatically. #1 is tough to do when you didn't design the base camera, and #2 is another set of controls or menu items to add to systems that are already burdened with too many.

Christian Behr said:
Boy Thom, 14mp, full frame, $4,000! Pretty exciting, huh?

Yes and no. The funny thing is that I shoot as wide as anyone (I was using a 14mm with 35mm bodies before I switched to digital), but have come to like the slightly altered look of wide on the 1.5x digitals. The limitations have certainly helped me improve my framing decisions, as I've had to rethink my approaches to scenics. And at the other end, I'm carrying one less lens than I used to due to the 1.5x factor, so my back thanks me... The 14 mp doesn't interest me so much from the standpoint of producing larger prints, but from the aspect that we're now in the Bayer pattern's sweet spot. Nyquist frequency limitations and color fringing will raise their ugly head less often. As for the US$4000 price point (I'm seeing US$5000 in some places, though), well, I wonder how many expensive camera bodies I'm going to have to buy this decade before I get one that clearly is "the one."

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide
author, Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D100
author, Complete Guide to the Nikon D1, D1h, & D1x
http://www.bythom.com

Search

Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

Christian Behr

Active member

Louis

Guest

Ger Bee

Forum Pro

Christian Behr

Active member

Thom Hogan

Forum Pro

Christian Behr

Active member

Thom Hogan

Forum Pro

Keyboard shortcuts