Who will buy conventional camera?

tamp · Oct 1, 2002

Since 2 months ago, I read the news from DPreview.com and found many manufacturers are releasing new models of DC in a crazy rate. It seems that no model can last for 1/2 year but replaced by new ones.

So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

Derek Clarke · Oct 1, 2002

Film cameras are still much cheaper than digital ones, even if they have higher running costs.

For instance you can buy 3 EOS1V film bodies for the cost of an EOS1D.

tamp said:
Since 2 months ago, I read the news from DPreview.com and found
many manufacturers are releasing new models of DC in a crazy rate.
It seems that no model can last for 1/2 year but replaced by new
ones.

So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional
camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

--
Derek

TJ66308 · Oct 1, 2002

For the cost of a D100 I can buy and develop about 6 to 8 years of 35mm film at the local lab. That is to say no prints just negatives. You can do your own math based on what you use. Also the film is always the latest in technology and readily available. When DSLRs become as cheap as that they will be used by everyone.........but that will never happen.
Regards
Ted

Derek Clarke said:
For instance you can buy 3 EOS1V film bodies for the cost of an EOS1D.

tamp said:

Since 2 months ago, I read the news from DPreview.com and found
many manufacturers are releasing new models of DC in a crazy rate.
It seems that no model can last for 1/2 year but replaced by new
ones.

So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional
camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

Click to expand...

--
Derek

Capital Man · Oct 1, 2002

tamp said:
Since 2 months ago, I read the news from DPreview.com and found
many manufacturers are releasing new models of DC in a crazy rate.
It seems that no model can last for 1/2 year but replaced by new
ones.

So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional
camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

Last year, about 15 million film cameras were sold in the United States, but only half as many digital cameras.

The 15 million doesn't include "single use" cameras.

Although people envision a future where a digital camera is as easy to use for the non-computer literate as a film camera, in October 2002, a digital camera is pretty useless to the non-computer literate person.

Also there are are those who could figure out how to use a digital camera, but don't switch because of intertia; their film camera works for them, they don't care to use a digital camera.

For people who don't have much money, continuing to use the current film camera is a lot less expensive than buying a new digital camera. Unless the new digital costs more than $200, it's not going to make as good a photo as the film camera they already have.

I constantly post messages urging conservatism in projections about digital overtaking film. I'm not sure anyone is listening.

It's not clear to me if film and digital will co-exist for many decades, or if one day suddenly all the film will disappear from the shelves of Walmart.

TJ66308 · Oct 1, 2002

I am listening. If they raise the price of film and start taking it off the self............ I'm sure more people will switch to digital real quick.But I still think people will own both!
Regards
Ted

Capital Man said:
I constantly post messages urging conservatism in projections about
digital overtaking film. I'm not sure anyone is listening.

It's not clear to me if film and digital will co-exist for many
decades, or if one day suddenly all the film will disappear from
the shelves of Walmart.

Marty Scher B · Oct 1, 2002

Digicam companies constantly release new models because the technology is rapidly changing and the market demand for these improvments is there.

Most "average" shooters still use film because there is no easy infrastructure for dealing with the images. It is still more costly and difficult to use a PC to process images to print.

When the market sells a decent digicam for $80, a CF card that can be inserted into a decent kiosk and easily edited at Walmart and prints ordered, then you will start seeing film cmaeras at the consumer level go bye-bye for good.

At the higher camera end, wise pros are already making the switch.

People used to take the same Luddite attitude towards PC computers. Who doesn't use one now?

My 5 year old uses a PC better than he uses a roll of toliet paper ; )

tamp said:
Since 2 months ago, I read the news from DPreview.com and found
many manufacturers are releasing new models of DC in a crazy rate.
It seems that no model can last for 1/2 year but replaced by new
ones.

So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional
camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

Capital Man · Oct 1, 2002

Marty Scher B said:
People used to take the same Luddite attitude towards PC computers.
Who doesn't use one now?

My 5 year old uses a PC better than he uses a roll of toliet paper ; )

Yeah yeah yeah. A few years ago they said Amazon.com would put Borders and Barnes & Noble out of busines. Well guess what? Borders and B&N are still in business and doing very will. Meanwhile Amazon.com's stock price is in the toilet.

Don't believe what everyone tells you to believe.

With better minilabs and better film, the standard 4 x 6 print will remain quality competitive with more expensive digital cameras.

Two years ago, they said pro's would continue to use film because it was better, only stupid consumers would use digital. I said "no no, it's going to be the other way around". I'm being proved right once again.

DarrenH · Oct 1, 2002

About the time? No. I own and use a Pentax 645n medium format camera, as well as an old Pentax Asahi SP500. I want to get a DSLR in the future, but I'm biding my time for now.

Don't worry about whether a camera is film or digital. Worry about getting good photographs.

tamp said:
Since 2 months ago, I read the news from DPreview.com and found
many manufacturers are releasing new models of DC in a crazy rate.
It seems that no model can last for 1/2 year but replaced by new
ones.

So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional
camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

Marty Scher B · Oct 1, 2002

Capital Man said:
Marty Scher B said:

People used to take the same Luddite attitude towards PC computers.
Who doesn't use one now?

My 5 year old uses a PC better than he uses a roll of toliet paper ; )

Click to expand...

Yeah yeah yeah. A few years ago they said Amazon.com would put
Borders and Barnes & Noble out of busines. Well guess what?
Borders and B&N are still in business and doing very will.
Meanwhile Amazon.com's stock price is in the toilet.

Not sure who "they" where. Anyone with half a brain new that the dot.com bubble would eventually burst. The smart one's knew when to get in and get out of the market.

Capital Man said:
Don't believe what everyone tells you to believe.

This is true, including yourself ; )

Capital Man said:
With better minilabs and better film, the standard 4 x 6 print will
remain quality competitive with more expensive digital cameras.

It's mid level digicam prices, lack of easy kiosk-based image correction and print processing that keeping low end users in film, IMO.

Capital Man said:
Two years ago, they said pro's would continue to use film because
it was better, only stupid consumers would use digital. I said "no
no, it's going to be the other way around". I'm being proved right
once again.

"They" probably had a good point then, as digital could not achieve the quality of high-end film. Not necessarily true today.

Consumers must have cheap and easy.

Regards

Marty Scher B · Oct 1, 2002

A recent photo mag had an article about a famous National Geographic photog, which included some shots he has started to take in digital.

He used a pro-sumer Panasonic model. They were as awesome as any of his film shots.

Made me decide to hold on to my Sony S75 a little longer.

Use what works best.

Regards.

DarrenH said:
Don't worry about whether a camera is film or digital. Worry about
getting good photographs.

tamp said:

Since 2 months ago, I read the news from DPreview.com and found
many manufacturers are releasing new models of DC in a crazy rate.
It seems that no model can last for 1/2 year but replaced by new
ones.

So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional
camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

Click to expand...

nochance · Oct 2, 2002

There are some good posts here, but film will be around and popular for a long, long time. I am totally digital after 30 years of shooting film. From my perspective, they are different mediums. I love digital, but film has advantages too, not the least because it's cheaper in the long run and simpler.

I am considering getting another film camera to supplement my digital. Digital is fun and gives lovely images, but I don't see it as superior. I like my scanned film images at least as well if not better.

tamp said:
So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional
camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

--
Bob
D60, CP5700, CP4500

jk · Oct 2, 2002

marty u are talking about bruce dale

in any case any dummy can use a digital and be puter illiterate

anyone can walk into a walmart and get their digital snapshots printed for 29 cents or upload their image to walmart or to fujifilm.net or shutterfly

eastburg said:
I am considering getting another film camera to supplement my
digital. Digital is fun and gives lovely images, but I don't see
it as superior. I like my scanned film images at least as well if
not better.

tamp said:

So, am I right to say that it is about the time for conventional
camera go to an end? It is too fast and out of my expectation!

Click to expand...

--
Bob
D60, CP5700, CP4500

--
beam me up scotty

im giving it all shes got captain

Capital Man · Oct 2, 2002

jk said:
in any case any dummy can use a digital and be puter illiterate
anyone can walk into a walmart and get their digital snapshots
printed for 29 cents or upload their image to walmart or to
fujifilm.net or shutterfly

Actually, most people CAN'T figure this out. Maybe you spend too much time hanging around college educated people. You've lost touch with ability of the average person to learn this stuff.

Eugene Gallucci · Oct 2, 2002

Capital Man said:
Actually, most people CAN'T figure this out. Maybe you spend too
much time hanging around college educated people. You've lost
touch with ability of the average person to learn this stuff.

I respectfully disagree - the average person can do okay with this stuff - the problem is that once the initial excitement/motivation wears off, it becomes work/a pain/not convenient etc. Ergo - the digital stuff sits on a shelf.
--
Carpe Diem

David Martin · Oct 2, 2002

Marty Scher B said:
People used to take the same Luddite attitude towards PC computers.
Who doesn't use one now?

My 5 year old uses a PC better than he uses a roll of toliet paper ; )

I hope that that's not your PC he's using, or at least that he uses htem for different purposes.
Regards,
--
DaveMart

Capital Man · Oct 2, 2002

Eugene Gallucci said:
I respectfully disagree - the average person can do okay with this
stuff - the problem is that once the initial excitement/motivation
wears off, it becomes work/a pain/not convenient etc. Ergo - the
digital stuff sits on a shelf.

No, many digital cameras are returned, or go unused, because people can't figure out how to use them. It's a known fact.

BobTrips · Oct 2, 2002

Ted Jengle said:
For the cost of a D100 I can buy and develop about 6 to 8 years of
35mm film at the local lab. That is to say no prints just
negatives.

You do what with your negatives? Hang the strips on the wall for your guests to admire?

Or do you scan them in to your computer? If so, I would guess that you have a decent scanner. Did you factor that into your costs?

TJ66308 said:
You can do your own math based on what you use. Also the
film is always the latest in technology and readily available.

Realistically, within not many years film may not be readily available, at least processing may not be. Retailers looked at profits generated from floor space taken up by LPs and dropped them from inventory very, very quickly.

The same thing could happen with film, at least with film developing equipment. As it becomes less convenient to develop film there will be more movement to digital.

TJ66308 said:
When DSLRs become as cheap as that they will be used by
everyone.........but that will never happen.

Most people have no desire to own or use either a film or digital SLR. They want small, convenient cameras. Digital will give film cameras fits because they can be made much smaller. Just look at the tiny 2 meg camera that Sony recently released.

--
bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
New Gallery - Nat (Spirit) Festival in Myanmar
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal

BobTrips · Oct 2, 2002

Capital Man said:
Eugene Gallucci said:

I respectfully disagree - the average person can do okay with this
stuff - the problem is that once the initial excitement/motivation
wears off, it becomes work/a pain/not convenient etc. Ergo - the
digital stuff sits on a shelf.

Click to expand...

No, many digital cameras are returned, or go unused, because people
can't figure out how to use them. It's a known fact.

I don't know what world either of you people are living in.... It ain't the one I'm in.

I know several people, both college educated and not, who have and use digital cameras. They carry their cameras around, take pictures, get home, look at them on the screen. They don't give a fig about prints.

I'm in the process of selling my house/land. Not surprising that the realtors show up with a digital and shoot some pictures for the web site/brochures.

But, every person/couple who has come to look has carried and used a digital to snap some pics. One couple carried a digital and a film camera (nice looking Nikon SLR). I saw a lot of digital pictures taken, the lens cap didn't come off the Nikon.

--
bob
http://www.pbase.com/bobtrips
New Gallery - Nat (Spirit) Festival in Myanmar
pictures from Thailand, Myanmar(Burma), and Nepal

Ruffian · Oct 2, 2002

BobTrips said:
Member said:

You can do your own math based on what you use. Also the
film is always the latest in technology and readily available.

Click to expand...

Realistically, within not many years film may not be readily
available, at least processing may not be. Retailers looked at
profits generated from floor space taken up by LPs and dropped them
from inventory very, very quickly.

eh?

My house still has the fabled LaserDisc karoake player. It's used for the super-large platters, originally intended for many karoake lounges. Its advantage is more storage space than CDs, which enable producers to dump FMV with sound, guide text, and others into the thing.

Yeah, LaserDisc has gone the same way LPs did: LDs are now virtually obsolete, thanks to DVD.

Member said:
Member said:

When DSLRs become as cheap as that they will be used by
everyone.........but that will never happen.

Click to expand...

Most people have no desire to own or use either a film or digital
SLR. They want small, convenient cameras. Digital will give film
cameras fits because they can be made much smaller. Just look at
the tiny 2 meg camera that Sony recently released.

DSLR for the masses? No way. The average consumer doesn't need a generous array of DSLR-compatible lenses and other miscellaneous bread crumbs, all it wants is a compact camera for everyday use.

One advantage of digital is that it doesn't have to faithfully follow the rules of compact film camera design. Pentax has a Digibino. Sony has (and still has) the FD Mavica that takes VGA shots with 10X videolike zoom. Nikon's split-body-swivels. Panasonic with its SD-based DV/DC with a huge LCD screen and small lens. Canon's all-time favorite swivel-LCD-screens.... and on and on and on...
--
http://printerboyweb.net/G2

colin britton · Oct 2, 2002

Can anyone enlighten me as to why the topic of film versus digital raises so much passion and heat. Why is it so important?

.

Who will buy conventional camera?

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