Reading mode: Light Dark

Well I turned off the 'P' mode.......

Go to last post
I looked at them. Very good. Using A, S and M modes will teach one a lot quickly about how the camera works and also on improving one's photographic skills.

P mode hides everything from you and that is not a good thing... unless point-n-shoot is desired. Then P is a wonderful thing.

And I've been known to leave it in P mode when things get hectic or I don't care. Otherwise I am a S or M mode shooter. I control DOF through shutter speeds.

Take care,
AmandaA said:
I went for a walk with the kids today and tried many of your
suggestions and hints (I had printed up many suggestions).
I turned off the 'P' mode and experimented with many options
(though just a tip of the iceberg)
I have added some pics to my galleries.
I even tried some action shots!!!
I am quite pleased with some of them. Some of them were even in
focus!!
I must be doing something right. I had a great time and my kids
love being the focus of attention as I photograph them.

http://www.pbase.com/alazok/galleries
Click to expand...
--
TonyK
 
You just wanted to "flash" her and Vance beat you to it. ;)
gagefx said:
Rembvrijn said:
Small hint. Use the flash to help with fill when your shooting in
shadows. ;o)
Click to expand...
!!!!!!!!!!!!IKES!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just say NO to fill flash. No fill flash. No fill flash.....

ah... okay, use the fill flash FOR NOW. We'll wean you off of that
later. In THEORY Vance is correct, use the flash to help fill when
you are shooting in shadows.

GageFX
Click to expand...
--
TonyK
 
gagefx said:
Not that you are BIASED or anything.

I have been using Photoshop for ??? years, since v3 came out. I
learned it in order to get a job as a book jacket designer. I had
never used Photoshop before, I didnt even have a computer at the
time, but the interview was in the morning and I needed samples. I
went to the local college and took a seat in the student computer
lab. I wasnt a student, I just lived nearby. I fired up PS and
stared at it blankly. I did a couple covers and had the interview.
I didnt get the job, it went to the art directors uncle (!!!! how
surprising) and that was the end of that. Oh, not the end, I looked
at their product catalog a year later, just curious, and there were
my designs almost exactly. Moal of the story? I've been using
Photoshop for a long time too. BIG DEAL.
Click to expand...
Not biased at all, although I do have a good amount of Adobe stock. You are missing the point entirely. My objective is not to be a great photographer. My goal is to create great print and web designs using illustration, painting, photography, layout, and copy.

In my professional work I hire photographers. (I will use the E20n to do concept work for layout, etc.) The photographers I have hired, who also do work for leading magazines, etc. generally use the top line Nikon D1 digital cameras. Sorry to burst your baloon, but they ALL post process with Photoshop - some more than others.

Again, I do not care HOW they get what I want, jusrt that they get it. Give them a bronze star for "photographic technique" but they get my check at the end of the day.
Rembvrijn said:
That doesnt give us excuse to be bad photographers. I will someday
be a HUGELY successfull fashion photographer. I WILL. That's just
the way it is. I accomplish 90% of what I set out to do and this
WILL happen. Now, lets say I've relyed on Photoshop to get a usable
image from every crappy photo I take. What's going to happen when I
get the SI Swimsuit shoot (and I will) and I turn over my images
immediately to them (do you think they get to play with them for 2
months before they turn them in? Right now they all shoot film and
the HAND THE FILM OVER AT THE END OF THE SHOOT.) Same with
editorial work and much else. What will I do then? Say "Designdog
said I could take bad pictures because you can fix it in
Photoshop."?
Click to expand...
Take good pictures, grasshopper. Then make them better with Photoshop. Use the tools of your trade. You are naive if you think others do not.
Rembvrijn said:
I'm sorry you cant seem to TAKE good pictures. That's too bad. I
knew a guy who couldnt walk so well. Even though he used those
crutches for 10 years he still couldnt seem to walk right.

Learn to walk. Throw the crutch away. Get to the point where you
HAVE to work without them. If you need a little help, they're
there, but dont rely on them. I'm sure you cuold take a good
picture if you actually tried to learn something about photography.
It's just light and being able to see the light. It's easier for
you to ignore that and fix it in post. It takes just as much time
to take a good picture or a bad picture, about 5 minutes of setup
time. Correct light or wrong, about 5 minutes AT THE MOST. Now why
would I want to spend that 5 minutes setting it up WRONG just to
spend 3 hours in Photoshop corerecting it? Oh yeah, because I'm too
stubborn to learn a few rules and guidelines.
Click to expand...
If you are taking 3 hours to correct an image in Photoshop, I suggest that you either have a terrible image to begin with (which flies in the face of your original argument) or that you really don't know what you are doing in Photoshop. Takes me about 15 minutes to get what I need, from my obviously second-rate photographic skills.
Rembvrijn said:
ALL digital images need some post processing. E's need levels
boost, others need alot of sharpening, etc, but that isnt an excuse
for not knowing how to take a good picture.
Click to expand...
No disagreement here.
Rembvrijn said:
Amanda, do you want to spend 2 hours on each picture in Photoshop
(if you even HAVE Photoshop) or do you want to learn to do it in
camera?
Click to expand...
Spend 15 minutes Amanda. If you like, I can show you how...
Rembvrijn said:
And ddog,
Rembvrijn said:
What is important to me is the final product. If I am a better
Photoshop artist than a natural photographer- who cares? Besides,
this is digital photgraphy anyway. Unless you are shooting RAW
files in full manual you are using a computer to enhance your
natural photgraphic eye.
Click to expand...
You're nuts. Come on. The way the camera works is JUST LIKE FILM.
If you put different film in the camera you get different results.
A photographer needs to know those things. So too, a digital
photographer needs to know what his camera is going to do. I am NOT
"using a computer to enhance your natural photgraphic eye.", I am
using a computer to capture the darn image. Is a film photographer
using Velvia to enhance the natural colors? Maybe. Some will say to
capture them more accurately.
Click to expand...
All high end digital cameras rely upon some kind of digital enhancement, whether it is in focusing, white balance, etc. Read the reviews of the new Sigma with Faveon to get a better understanding of how technology is further enhancing the photographer's "eye".

Finally, my point is to use all of the tools available, including your own gifts (or my lack of them) to reach your creative goals. Ansel Adams made a statement with his wonderful black and white photography. Yet he relied upon a very sophisticated metering system (the zone) and the very best technology available. In those days photographers post processed their own exposures in developing - not much different in principal than what we do today with Photoshop.

-the designdog
Rembvrijn said:
GageFX
Click to expand...
 
Thank you for your comments and reasons behind them.

I am at sponge stage---ready to soak up as much information and advise as I can get.

It is good to know Photoshop and the like are there, and I do enjoy using it ( I would love advise on techniques on how to use it), but at the moment getting the 'hands on' experience with the camera is my first priority.

I have realised in this short time just how much control we can have over how our pictures can turnout, and I want to know it all!!!!

Take care
 
Thankyou for your comments Tony.
TonyK_in_Texas said:
I looked at them. Very good. Using A, S and M modes will teach
one a lot quickly about how the camera works and also on improving
one's photographic skills.

P mode hides everything from you and that is not a good thing...
unless point-n-shoot is desired. Then P is a wonderful thing.

And I've been known to leave it in P mode when things get hectic or
I don't care. Otherwise I am a S or M mode shooter. I control DOF
through shutter speeds.

Take care,
Click to expand...
 
I agree with David. It looks like your white balance is off -- especially since your shots in the sun look right on, and your shade pics have the color cast.

I'll probablly get flamed for suggesting this, but... In situations like this -- where I'm shooting rapidly, and in and out of the sun between frames -- I set my white balance to auto. I usually end up finding some shots under their potential, but that's where Photoshop comes in.

What is this, day four? Congrats on the purchase. Keep it up.

P.S. -- Your son's football looks over-inflated. And he should get used to practicing in a helmet, like the real men do. What part of the states are you from? ;) Just kidding. I always longed to play rugby -- but in a ranch town in the central U.S., my only option was football.
David Grabowski said:
AmandaA said:
I went for a walk with the kids today and tried many of your
suggestions and hints (I had printed up many suggestions).
I turned off the 'P' mode and experimented with many options
(though just a tip of the iceberg)
I have added some pics to my galleries.
I even tried some action shots!!!
I am quite pleased with some of them. Some of them were even in
focus!!
I must be doing something right. I had a great time and my kids
love being the focus of attention as I photograph them.

http://www.pbase.com/alazok/galleries
Click to expand...
Amanda ,
You've obviously had experience with composing and catching the
moment, nice work. I would venture to say the e10 may be new to you
but photography isn't.

As to the washed out look you mention in the one shot, run the
image through a photo editor and work up the levels a bit, it
should pop right in. You have plenty of detail there to work with
and the eyes are nice, lots of natural light detail in the eyes.

How are you color balancing at this point, still in auto white
balance or moving the settings manually? I noticed in a couple of
shots the colors were a bit cool, but this can be corrected as well
post editing, could also be just perosnal opinion.

My experience is on a hazy or partly cloudy day to use 6500K as the
setting and in full bright crisp sun 5500 K, also 6500 k for fill
flash outdoors and usually 5500K indoors with flash shots where say
the room colors are warm,but 6500 K can work where the room colors
are cool, either is not far off. Your experience may vary, but try
that. Auto can be hit or mis, gets you in the ball park. Indoors
for natural light it may be best to take a manual reading off a
white card stock. I'm thinking of the importance of this for bridal
shots where maybe the dress is a candle lght white and the camera
assumes pure white, so a pure white card reading sets it all
straight.
( I have another wedding coming up this weekend).

David
Click to expand...
--
http://www.jacemouse.com
 
designdog said:
Not biased at all, although I do have a good amount of Adobe stock.
You are missing the point entirely. My objective is not to be a
great photographer. My goal is to create great print and web
designs using illustration, painting, photography, layout, and copy.
Click to expand...
COMPLETELY biased. Biased towards Photoshop/CG manipualtion and away from photography.
designdog said:
In my professional work I hire photographers. (I will use the E20n
to do concept work for layout, etc.) The photographers I have
hired, who also do work for leading magazines, etc. generally use
the top line Nikon D1 digital cameras. Sorry to burst your baloon,
but they ALL post process with Photoshop - some more than others.
Click to expand...
I NEVER said that they dont, but thanks for the lesson. I said the PHOTOGRAPHERS dont so if I dont SHOOT the best possible image I will never shoot for them again. Retouching is one thing, having to create a completely new image because of bad photography is another. Try to follow along.
designdog said:
Again, I do not care HOW they get what I want, jusrt that they get
it. Give them a bronze star for "photographic technique" but they
get my check at the end of the day.
Click to expand...
So at the end of the day they give you.. what? They're own manipulated images so you can then manipualte them further? There is a basic point here and it makes it very obvious you aren't a shooter. It make NO SENSE to NOT TAKE the best image possible. What part of this doesnt make sense to you?
designdog said:
Take good pictures, grasshopper. Then make them better with
Photoshop. Use the tools of your trade. You are naive if you think
others do not.
Click to expand...
I'll try this one more time, WHEN did I say NO ONE uses photoshop? Please direct me me to that statement.
designdog said:
If you are taking 3 hours to correct an image in Photoshop, I
suggest that you either have a terrible image to begin with (which
flies in the face of your original argument) or that you really
don't know what you are doing in Photoshop. Takes me about 15
minutes to get what I need, from my obviously second-rate
photographic skills.
Click to expand...
You are having trouble folowing along, aren't you.

This part here:
designdog said:
I suggest that you either have a terrible image to begin with (which
flies in the face of your original argument)
Click to expand...
Is EXACTLY what I'm saying. It doesnt "fly int he face of my argument" IT'S MY POINT!,
designdog said:
designdog said:
ALL digital images need some post processing. E's need levels
boost, others need alot of sharpening, etc, but that isnt an excuse
for not knowing how to take a good picture.
Click to expand...
No disagreement here.
Click to expand...
Read it again. I'm sure you must agree with SOMETHING in it.
designdog said:
designdog said:
Amanda, do you want to spend 2 hours on each picture in Photoshop
(if you even HAVE Photoshop) or do you want to learn to do it in
camera?
Click to expand...
Spend 15 minutes Amanda. If you like, I can show you how...
Click to expand...
NOT if the picture is so bad that it takes more than 15 minutes. I would rather show her how to take the picture properly so she doesnt have to buy the $600 program let alone spend 15 additonal minutes on each picture.
designdog said:
All high end digital cameras rely upon some kind of digital
enhancement, whether it is in focusing, white balance, etc. Read
the reviews of the new Sigma with Faveon to get a better
understanding of how technology is further enhancing the
photographer's "eye".
Click to expand...
I never said it doesnt, but there is a big difference between learning how to properly use the tool you have so you can do it all before you push the shutter and not knowing how to use the tool and then have to rework it using another tool.
designdog said:
Finally, my point is to use all of the tools available, including
your own gifts (or my lack of them) to reach your creative goals.
Ansel Adams made a statement with his wonderful black and white
photography. Yet he relied upon a very sophisticated metering
system (the zone) and the very best technology available. In those
days photographers post processed their own exposures in developing
  • not much different in principal than what we do today with
Photoshop.
Click to expand...
You are delusional. Ansel started shooting with 4x5 Brownies and 6.5x8.5 glass plate cameras. Very high tech. As for photoshop being the new darkroom, of course it is, but that doesnt mean you shouldnt TAKE the best picture possible. You see a theme running here?

I really dont care. Continue to take bad pictures and fix them in photoshop. That's what you're good at. But dont hurt the learning process of others by trying to get them to use your crutches. Youu hang out in your Photoshop forum and then when the shooters need a little help with photoshop, they'll hunt you down. But dont hang out in the camera photography forum and teach people they dont need to worry about what they shoot. You aren't helping anyone.

GageFX
 
In this family, I have been told there is only one kind of football--rugby union.

My son comes from a long line of rugby union men, and he in turn has become one of them.
I just don't get what you men can see in ball sports!!
Jace Mouse57098 said:
P.S. -- Your son's football looks over-inflated. And he should get
used to practicing in a helmet, like the real men do. What part of
the states are you from? ;) Just kidding. I always longed to
play rugby -- but in a ranch town in the central U.S., my only
option was football.
Click to expand...
 
The camera has a pretty good dynamic range (ability to capture detail). Some on this forum know all the technical stuff; I don't. Many times, just minor tweaking in an editing program makes a dramatic difference in the presentation. This one was relatively simple.

I opened your pic in PS and adjusted the levels. Slid the blackpoint up just a hair and moved the whitepoint down about 1/8 the total and moved the midtones up just a little. Don't remember the numbers; I just looked at the preview and moved things 'til I thought it was a bit better. All this was done to the midtones of the pic.(midtones selected in the levels box)

For color correction I moved the sliders a little toward red, green, and yellow.

Whole process took maybe 2 minutes. I don't look for perfection, just improvement. Check local educational facilities for a class or so on PS or other editing programs. You'll never regret the time spent.

The camera is wonderful and will give you a huge amount of material to work with. Above all, have fun!!

Archie
--
One day at a time
 
Jace Mouse said:
I agree with David. It looks like your white balance is off --
especially since your shots in the sun look right on, and your
shade pics have the color cast.

I'll probablly get flamed for suggesting this, but... In
situations like this -- where I'm shooting rapidly, and in and out
of the sun between frames -- I set my white balance to auto. I
usually end up finding some shots under their potential, but that's
where Photoshop comes in.

What is this, day four? Congrats on the purchase. Keep it up.

P.S. -- Your son's football looks over-inflated. And he should get
used to practicing in a helmet, like the real men do. What part of
the states are you from? ;) Just kidding. I always longed to
play rugby -- but in a ranch town in the central U.S., my only
option was football.
Click to expand...
Speeking of football, we just found out my grandson ( age 14) cracked his back ( #6 and #7 verterbra) in Junior High Footbal practice . Just what my daughter was afraid of when he and his brother signed up. Anyway, off to Childrens Hospital in Boston tomorro, the local hospital won't handle it beyond the Xrays, looks like a back brace is in order. Rat's !
David
 
David Grabowski said:
Jace Mouse said:
I agree with David. It looks like your white balance is off --
especially since your shots in the sun look right on, and your
shade pics have the color cast.

I'll probablly get flamed for suggesting this, but... In
situations like this -- where I'm shooting rapidly, and in and out
of the sun between frames -- I set my white balance to auto. I
usually end up finding some shots under their potential, but that's
where Photoshop comes in.

What is this, day four? Congrats on the purchase. Keep it up.

P.S. -- Your son's football looks over-inflated. And he should get
used to practicing in a helmet, like the real men do. What part of
the states are you from? ;) Just kidding. I always longed to
play rugby -- but in a ranch town in the central U.S., my only
option was football.
Click to expand...
Speeking of football, we just found out my grandson ( age 14)
cracked his back ( #6 and #7 verterbra) in Junior High Footbal
practice . Just what my daughter was afraid of when he and his
brother signed up. Anyway, off to Childrens Hospital in Boston
tomorro, the local hospital won't handle it beyond the Xrays, looks
like a back brace is in order. Rat's !
David
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear about your grandson David, If any hospital can fix him up ,it's Childrens. Where in MA do you live?????

Rich
 
Rich16740 said:
Rich16740 said:
Speeking of football, we just found out my grandson ( age 14)
cracked his back ( #6 and #7 verterbra) in Junior High Footbal
practice . Just what my daughter was afraid of when he and his
brother signed up. Anyway, off to Childrens Hospital in Boston
tomorro, the local hospital won't handle it beyond the Xrays, looks
like a back brace is in order. Rat's !
David
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear about your grandson David, If any hospital can fix
him up ,it's Childrens. Where in MA do you live?????

Rich
Click to expand...
I'm on the Cape, the daughter and grandchild and family are in Plymouth.

Turns out my daughter couldn't wait for the appointment on Thursday and went to the emergency room at Childrens. They found out no brace will be needed, but he will be out of commission for a few weeks.

All in all, good news compared to the orignal possibility !!

Thanks for responding,
David
 
Thankyou for explaining this to me.

I am not really familiar with working with midtones etc, but I will find them on PS and play around with them to see what works and what doesnt.
Take care
James D. Howell said:
The camera has a pretty good dynamic range (ability to capture
detail). Some on this forum know all the technical stuff; I don't.
Many times, just minor tweaking in an editing program makes a
dramatic difference in the presentation. This one was relatively
simple.

I opened your pic in PS and adjusted the levels. Slid the
blackpoint up just a hair and moved the whitepoint down about 1/8
the total and moved the midtones up just a little. Don't remember
the numbers; I just looked at the preview and moved things 'til I
thought it was a bit better. All this was done to the midtones of
the pic.(midtones selected in the levels box)

For color correction I moved the sliders a little toward red,
green, and yellow.

Whole process took maybe 2 minutes. I don't look for perfection,
just improvement. Check local educational facilities for a class or
so on PS or other editing programs. You'll never regret the time
spent.

The camera is wonderful and will give you a huge amount of material
to work with. Above all, have fun!!

Archie
--
One day at a time
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/alazok/galleries
 
Dear David,

I can understand your daughter's concern with kids and football. My son is mad keen on it and unfortunatly as my husband works on Saturdays, I have to go and watch the game. Whenever a boy is down, I am sometimes too scared to look in case it is mine.

I make sure my Mat wears protective head gear(not compulsory here) and mouthguards(compulsory). Unfortunatley they wont allow him to play in the big protective, cottonwool-lined bubble I would like him to wear ALL the time!!!
I am glad your grandson will be fine.
Amanda
David Grabowski said:
David Grabowski said:
David Grabowski said:
Speeking of football, we just found out my grandson ( age 14)
cracked his back ( #6 and #7 verterbra) in Junior High Footbal
practice . Just what my daughter was afraid of when he and his
brother signed up. Anyway, off to Childrens Hospital in Boston
tomorro, the local hospital won't handle it beyond the Xrays, looks
like a back brace is in order. Rat's !
David
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear about your grandson David, If any hospital can fix
him up ,it's Childrens. Where in MA do you live?????

Rich
Click to expand...
I'm on the Cape, the daughter and grandchild and family are in
Plymouth.

Turns out my daughter couldn't wait for the appointment on Thursday
and went to the emergency room at Childrens. They found out no
brace will be needed, but he will be out of commission for a few
weeks.

All in all, good news compared to the orignal possibility !!

Thanks for responding,
David
Click to expand...
--
http://www.pbase.com/alazok/galleries
 
AmandaA said:
Dear David,
I can understand your daughter's concern with kids and football.
My son is mad keen on it and unfortunatly as my husband works on
Saturdays, I have to go and watch the game. Whenever a boy is down,
I am sometimes too scared to look in case it is mine.
I make sure my Mat wears protective head gear(not compulsory here)
and mouthguards(compulsory). Unfortunatley they wont allow him to
play in the big protective, cottonwool-lined bubble I would like
him to wear ALL the time!!!
I am glad your grandson will be fine.
Amanda
Click to expand...
Thank you Amanda,
David
 
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