Photoshop

Rich97163

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I recently purchased the D60 and lens. I have been looking into programs for image editing and found that the most popular one is the Adobe Photoshop. All I really want to do right now is crop, dodge & burn, etc. --- just the basics. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance. Rich
 
is a reasonable alternative. It'll provide you with the capabilities you mentioned and save you $500+ to boot! Buy.com, Amazon.com, Best Buy -- all carry this. Count on spending $50 - $100.
I recently purchased the D60 and lens. I have been looking into
programs for image editing and found that the most popular one is
the Adobe Photoshop. All I really want to do right now is crop,
dodge & burn, etc. --- just the basics. Any suggestions? Thanks in
advance. Rich
 
If you stick with digital photography, like me, you will eventually purchase Photoshop after trying all of the other lower cost programs. I would suggest getting it now and saving time and money on other programs.

Chris
I recently purchased the D60 and lens. I have been looking into
programs for image editing and found that the most popular one is
the Adobe Photoshop. All I really want to do right now is crop,
dodge & burn, etc. --- just the basics. Any suggestions? Thanks in
advance. Rich
 
If you are serious, you won't be happy with anything less. I tried 'em all and the only one I use is Photoshop.
Malcolm
Chris
I recently purchased the D60 and lens. I have been looking into
programs for image editing and found that the most popular one is
the Adobe Photoshop. All I really want to do right now is crop,
dodge & burn, etc. --- just the basics. Any suggestions? Thanks in
advance. Rich
 
If you stick with digital photography, like me, you will eventually
purchase Photoshop after trying all of the other lower cost
programs.
This is simply not true. I've been involved with digital imaging for 15+ years. I will not now, nor will I ever take anything away from Photoshop. But to say that one is bound to end up with Photoshop is an inaccurate statement and one that breeds the kind of Photoshop only mindset that many have.

There are many alternatives. There are better alternatives. EVERYTHING depends on the user. To suggest that only Photoshop is viable to the person who only wants to do relatively simple things is extremely bad advise. MANY people simply don't want to do more than simple rotating and cropping. To suggest a $600 program is the only solution for such a person is ludicrous. MANY have purchased Photoshop on similar advise only to be TOTALLY overwhelmed. They are simply not interested enough in digital imaging to invest the kind of time and energy necessary to become somewhat proficient in Photoshop. This characterizes the majority of casual digital photographers. They have no business even considering Photoshop.

But this is not restricted to those who only desire the basics. There are also many solutions for the advanced amatuer and professional. But Photoshop does become more advisable for these people because of its market inertia, NOT because of any serious capability advantages. If we restrict the discussion to image editing capability, then many will compete. But Photoshop's advantage is realized in the books, tapes, CDs, and plug-in support available to it. The availability of these support materials can be worth the increased price by themselves. But many codes are more than capable of holding their own in image editing.

To the original poster. For your stated desires I'd take a hard look at Microsoft's Picture It! product lineup. They provide the basics at a reasonable cost and they are very easy to use and you can quickly get up to speed with them. If you want to use something that provides for more growth, then look at JASC's Paint Shop Pro, Ulead's PhotoImpact, Mediachance's Photo Brush, or Adobe's Photoshop Elements. If you want what I consider to be the best overall value (power and cost) in photographic image editing in my opinion, then give Digital Light and Color's Picture Window Pro a test drive. However, be cautioned. These recommendations come at a price. You will need to invest more time and energy to become profficient.

There is absolutely NO reason to spend the big $$ on Photoshop for what you want to do.
 
I agree. I've been using Paint Shop Pro for years. It will do everything Rich needs for a fraction of the cost of Photoshop. In fact, I have yet to find anything useful that Photoshop can do that PSP cannot.

However, Photoshop is the de facto standard for image editing, and most "tips," reference materials, etc. that you will find out there refer to Photoshop. Translating this information to the PSP user interface can be frustrating at times. (I also find the PSP help file to be lacking in certain areas.) But if cost is a concern, I still think PSP is the way to go since it covers all the basics and provides more "power" as one becomes more experienced in image editing.
If you stick with digital photography, like me, you will eventually
purchase Photoshop after trying all of the other lower cost
programs.
This is simply not true. I've been involved with digital imaging
for 15+ years. I will not now, nor will I ever take anything away
from Photoshop. But to say that one is bound to end up with
Photoshop is an inaccurate statement and one that breeds the kind
of Photoshop only mindset that many have.

There are many alternatives. There are better alternatives.
EVERYTHING depends on the user. To suggest that only Photoshop is
viable to the person who only wants to do relatively simple things
is extremely bad advise. MANY people simply don't want to do more
than simple rotating and cropping. To suggest a $600 program is the
only solution for such a person is ludicrous. MANY have purchased
Photoshop on similar advise only to be TOTALLY overwhelmed. They
are simply not interested enough in digital imaging to invest the
kind of time and energy necessary to become somewhat proficient in
Photoshop. This characterizes the majority of casual digital
photographers. They have no business even considering Photoshop.

But this is not restricted to those who only desire the basics.
There are also many solutions for the advanced amatuer and
professional. But Photoshop does become more advisable for these
people because of its market inertia, NOT because of any serious
capability advantages. If we restrict the discussion to image
editing capability, then many will compete. But Photoshop's
advantage is realized in the books, tapes, CDs, and plug-in support
available to it. The availability of these support materials can be
worth the increased price by themselves. But many codes are more
than capable of holding their own in image editing.

To the original poster. For your stated desires I'd take a hard
look at Microsoft's Picture It! product lineup. They provide the
basics at a reasonable cost and they are very easy to use and you
can quickly get up to speed with them. If you want to use something
that provides for more growth, then look at JASC's Paint Shop Pro,
Ulead's PhotoImpact, Mediachance's Photo Brush, or Adobe's
Photoshop Elements. If you want what I consider to be the best
overall value (power and cost) in photographic image editing in my
opinion, then give Digital Light and Color's Picture Window Pro a
test drive. However, be cautioned. These recommendations come at a
price. You will need to invest more time and energy to become
profficient.

There is absolutely NO reason to spend the big $$ on Photoshop for
what you want to do.
 
I suggest to my multimedia students, most of whom survive on Ramen noodles, that they start with Photoshop Elements. It's a lot cheaper and many of the commands transfer easily into Photoshop, if that's what one eventually needs.

If you decide to go the full Photoshop route you might want to check to see if you (wife, child, etc.) might be eligible for the educational price. It's exactly the same program and you'll be eligible for future upgrades (unlike Microsoft's Office For Students and Teachers.) Academic Superstore will sell to you at educational prices, though you have to prove eligibility.

Good luck.
I recently purchased the D60 and lens. I have been looking into
programs for image editing and found that the most popular one is
the Adobe Photoshop. All I really want to do right now is crop,
dodge & burn, etc. --- just the basics. Any suggestions? Thanks in
advance. Rich
--
Joe Hawblitzel
 
Elements 2.0 is only $35 after rebates from Amazon.com. There's a $20 rebate from Amazon and a $30 upgrade or competing product rebate from Adobe. If you picked up Photoshop LE somewhere along the way, that qualifies for the Adobe rebate.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006ANW9/arizonabaseballt

I've also been using Paint Shop Pro for years and am not dissatisfied with its capabilities, but I just picked up Photoshop Elements 2.0 and have been trying to learn it to be closer to the mainstream. I don't know if this procedure for processing my 1D RAW files makes sense but this is what I do:

I convert RAW to JPG and use Paint Shop Pro to review and edit for web posting.

The few that I want to print I convert RAW to TIF and work on them in Photoshop Elements.
However, Photoshop is the de facto standard for image editing, and
most "tips," reference materials, etc. that you will find out there
refer to Photoshop. Translating this information to the PSP user
interface can be frustrating at times. (I also find the PSP help
file to be lacking in certain areas.) But if cost is a concern, I
still think PSP is the way to go since it covers all the basics and
provides more "power" as one becomes more experienced in image
editing.
If you stick with digital photography, like me, you will eventually
purchase Photoshop after trying all of the other lower cost
programs.
This is simply not true. I've been involved with digital imaging
for 15+ years. I will not now, nor will I ever take anything away
from Photoshop. But to say that one is bound to end up with
Photoshop is an inaccurate statement and one that breeds the kind
of Photoshop only mindset that many have.

There are many alternatives. There are better alternatives.
EVERYTHING depends on the user. To suggest that only Photoshop is
viable to the person who only wants to do relatively simple things
is extremely bad advise. MANY people simply don't want to do more
than simple rotating and cropping. To suggest a $600 program is the
only solution for such a person is ludicrous. MANY have purchased
Photoshop on similar advise only to be TOTALLY overwhelmed. They
are simply not interested enough in digital imaging to invest the
kind of time and energy necessary to become somewhat proficient in
Photoshop. This characterizes the majority of casual digital
photographers. They have no business even considering Photoshop.

But this is not restricted to those who only desire the basics.
There are also many solutions for the advanced amatuer and
professional. But Photoshop does become more advisable for these
people because of its market inertia, NOT because of any serious
capability advantages. If we restrict the discussion to image
editing capability, then many will compete. But Photoshop's
advantage is realized in the books, tapes, CDs, and plug-in support
available to it. The availability of these support materials can be
worth the increased price by themselves. But many codes are more
than capable of holding their own in image editing.

To the original poster. For your stated desires I'd take a hard
look at Microsoft's Picture It! product lineup. They provide the
basics at a reasonable cost and they are very easy to use and you
can quickly get up to speed with them. If you want to use something
that provides for more growth, then look at JASC's Paint Shop Pro,
Ulead's PhotoImpact, Mediachance's Photo Brush, or Adobe's
Photoshop Elements. If you want what I consider to be the best
overall value (power and cost) in photographic image editing in my
opinion, then give Digital Light and Color's Picture Window Pro a
test drive. However, be cautioned. These recommendations come at a
price. You will need to invest more time and energy to become
profficient.

There is absolutely NO reason to spend the big $$ on Photoshop for
what you want to do.
 
I've also been using Paint Shop Pro for years and am not
dissatisfied with its capabilities, but I just picked up Photoshop
Elements 2.0 and have been trying to learn it to be closer to the
mainstream.
And this is the main point people need to understand. It is so irritating hearing some tout Photoshop as the only solution for serious editing. It implies that no other tools are capable. THIS IS SIMPLY NOT TRUE. The issue is mainstream acceptance and thus, accesss to a vast array of online help, books, videos, CD tutorials, etc. The 3rd party support machine simply churns out accessories for the Photoshop user. Those of us that swim upstream are not lacking in any capability. But we lack in community with a great number of image editing people and we lack access to what they have access to. But we don't lack editing power. We just have to be resolved to being loners. That is fine for some, not fine for others. Each must make up their mind and understand the tradeoffs.
 
I have been using Photoshop 5.0LE for a number of years and found it to be a very good program. I always thought it was not worth upgrading to the full photoshop. That is until I purchased Photoshop 5.5 on ebay, new but for only $135. I tell you, Photoshop is really the way to go. It may take a while to learn all the features and it may have more features than you'll ever use, but its power is truly amazing. I just purchased the Photoshop 7 upgrade on ebay for $135 as well, so I now have the full version 7 for only $270!!

At the end of the day, with a camera as advanced as the D60 you would be shortselling yourself by not using Photoshop.

Ed
I recently purchased the D60 and lens. I have been looking into
programs for image editing and found that the most popular one is
the Adobe Photoshop. All I really want to do right now is crop,
dodge & burn, etc. --- just the basics. Any suggestions? Thanks in
advance. Rich
 
I may have not made myself clear. I have found that the D30 / D60 photos come out of the camera in need of post processing to achieve the best results. The most difficult problem is white balance.

I was simply stating my opinion that if one uses the D30 / D60 and wants to achieve the best photos possible, PhotoShop gives the greatest capabilities IMO.

It is very easy to download the great actions from Fred's site and others which can do everything from correct white balance, remove noise, recover highlights, increase resolution for printing, add frames and many other features. All of these can operate in batch mode on a group of images.

These actions only work with Photoshop, therefore, I was suggesting if one uses the D30/D60 for the long term and wants to get the most out of the photos it produces, Photoshop is the best option.

Chris
This is simply not true. I've been involved with digital imaging
for 15+ years. I will not now, nor will I ever take anything away
from Photoshop. But to say that one is bound to end up with
Photoshop is an inaccurate statement and one that breeds the kind
of Photoshop only mindset that many have.
 
Hi Tom:

Do you or anyone else on this site know if the rebates are applicable outside of the US (Canada in my case)? Amazon's site simply says that the manufacturer's rebate is in the box which doesn't help much for those of us living outside the US.

Regards,
Jim
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00006ANW9/arizonabaseballt

I've also been using Paint Shop Pro for years and am not
dissatisfied with its capabilities, but I just picked up Photoshop
Elements 2.0 and have been trying to learn it to be closer to the
mainstream. I don't know if this procedure for processing my 1D
RAW files makes sense but this is what I do:

I convert RAW to JPG and use Paint Shop Pro to review and edit for
web posting.

The few that I want to print I convert RAW to TIF and work on them
in Photoshop Elements.
However, Photoshop is the de facto standard for image editing, and
most "tips," reference materials, etc. that you will find out there
refer to Photoshop. Translating this information to the PSP user
interface can be frustrating at times. (I also find the PSP help
file to be lacking in certain areas.) But if cost is a concern, I
still think PSP is the way to go since it covers all the basics and
provides more "power" as one becomes more experienced in image
editing.
If you stick with digital photography, like me, you will eventually
purchase Photoshop after trying all of the other lower cost
programs.
This is simply not true. I've been involved with digital imaging
for 15+ years. I will not now, nor will I ever take anything away
from Photoshop. But to say that one is bound to end up with
Photoshop is an inaccurate statement and one that breeds the kind
of Photoshop only mindset that many have.

There are many alternatives. There are better alternatives.
EVERYTHING depends on the user. To suggest that only Photoshop is
viable to the person who only wants to do relatively simple things
is extremely bad advise. MANY people simply don't want to do more
than simple rotating and cropping. To suggest a $600 program is the
only solution for such a person is ludicrous. MANY have purchased
Photoshop on similar advise only to be TOTALLY overwhelmed. They
are simply not interested enough in digital imaging to invest the
kind of time and energy necessary to become somewhat proficient in
Photoshop. This characterizes the majority of casual digital
photographers. They have no business even considering Photoshop.

But this is not restricted to those who only desire the basics.
There are also many solutions for the advanced amatuer and
professional. But Photoshop does become more advisable for these
people because of its market inertia, NOT because of any serious
capability advantages. If we restrict the discussion to image
editing capability, then many will compete. But Photoshop's
advantage is realized in the books, tapes, CDs, and plug-in support
available to it. The availability of these support materials can be
worth the increased price by themselves. But many codes are more
than capable of holding their own in image editing.

To the original poster. For your stated desires I'd take a hard
look at Microsoft's Picture It! product lineup. They provide the
basics at a reasonable cost and they are very easy to use and you
can quickly get up to speed with them. If you want to use something
that provides for more growth, then look at JASC's Paint Shop Pro,
Ulead's PhotoImpact, Mediachance's Photo Brush, or Adobe's
Photoshop Elements. If you want what I consider to be the best
overall value (power and cost) in photographic image editing in my
opinion, then give Digital Light and Color's Picture Window Pro a
test drive. However, be cautioned. These recommendations come at a
price. You will need to invest more time and energy to become
profficient.

There is absolutely NO reason to spend the big $$ on Photoshop for
what you want to do.
--
D60
20-35
28-135IS
70-200 2.8L
380EX
 
and also download "Grokking the GIMP", which is the best manual for it.

GIMP has alot of functionality and is great for learning/performing the basics.

The only downfall is the user interface.

Chris
I recently purchased the D60 and lens. I have been looking into
programs for image editing and found that the most popular one is
the Adobe Photoshop. All I really want to do right now is crop,
dodge & burn, etc. --- just the basics. Any suggestions? Thanks in
advance. Rich
--
----------------------
http://www.pbase.com/otto9000
 
I have a number of photo editing programs including PS V7 and PSP V7. I feel that each program has its niche where it excels over the others.

My biggest gripe with PS (beyond price) is that I find some of the features non-intuitive to learn. In fact, I feel the same about most Adobe programs - they use a mindset different from the others. Maybe not a wrong mindset, just different.

More than once I've sat down determined to learn how to do "xyz" in Photoshop, only to give up after an hour or two and then do it in another program after a few minutes. Perhaps it is equally easy if I could only figure out how.
 
I was simply stating my opinion that if one uses the D30 / D60 and
wants to achieve the best photos possible, PhotoShop gives the
greatest capabilities IMO.
I absolutely agree. One way to look at it is this: If someone is not serious enough about digital photography to invest in the best tools, then why even consider a camera like the D30/D60/1D to begin with? That's like buying the best race car you can afford and then putting cheap tires on it. Other programs like PSP will do many of the basic things just fine. But sooner or later you'll run into situations where you need the full power of Photoshop. It's expensive, but it delivers the goods. It's also easy to learn the basics, and you can grow with it as your needs grow.

Another inexpensive alternative (ie, FREE) program is The GIMP, which is a UNIX based program that has been ported to Windows. It has many of Photoshop's features, although it is a bit slower and not as intuitive to use. But for the free download, you can't beat it! Here is a site that has lots of info, including a link to the download site:

http://www.nuclecu.unam.mx/~federico/gimp/links.html

--
Steve
http://home.att.net/~bishopweb/

The secret to good photography: a camera, a lens, artistic vision, a little skill, some patience and a whole lot of luck
 
Of course, but why would I use LE in lieu of the full program?

I still say, if you want to do photo editing right, the full Photoshop is the way to go. Yeah, the other programs do OK, but I find I can do more faster in Photoshop whan any of the other programs I've tried. Whatever works for you guys, keep it up!
Malcolm
Chris
I recently purchased the D60 and lens. I have been looking into
programs for image editing and found that the most popular one is
the Adobe Photoshop. All I really want to do right now is crop,
dodge & burn, etc. --- just the basics. Any suggestions? Thanks in
advance. Rich
 
Chris, I appreciate your clarification. And I now understand where you're coming from. You sound like a sincere guy so I will give you sincere input on your issues. My point is not to get into a flame war, but to educate people on the vast array of alternatives and the tradeoffs that one has to make.

Now for your concerns. I shoot with a D30 and also have to deal with white balance issues. However, my tool of choice for the past 6 years or so has been a tool called Picture Window Pro. Like most things in life, it has some great attributes, and some things that need improvement. But its tools for white balancing, color correcting, and tonal range adjustments are second to none. In Photoshop and Photoshop plugin compatible tools, one can get very similar white balancing and color correcting capability with Pictographics iCorrect Edit Lab ( http://www.picto.com ) and Digital Light and Color's Color Mechanic ( http://www.dl-c.com ). Digital Light and Color is the author of Picture Window Pro as well as he Color Mechanic PS plug-in that has garnered so many rave reviews in the Photoshop community. This capability is built into PW Pro. So white balancing in PW Pro is a breeze with the "Color Balance" tool.

If you read my other responses, you will see that I state that Photoshop's tremendous advantage is in its 3rd party support inertia. I stand by that statement because whenever I get into discussions like this with people the clear advantage that surfaces is always, actions, plugins, etc. But these are just automated processes that somebody or a group os somebodies has taken the time to develop. If you read Fred's web site you'll see that he hasn't been a long time Photoshopper. Digital Imaging just bit him and he became consumed by it. Thus, he wrote actions to automate things for users' benefit. It's not like those things can't be done elsewhere. It's just that the user has to know how. But many don't want to know, I realize that. So they pay for somebody else's time and energy in developing automated solutions. However, this does not mean that Photoshop has greater capabilities. That implies that other alternative aren't capble of running plugins or of scripted processes. This is not true. Thay are very capable. They just don't have the vast number of people to write those things like PS does. It is a fine line of difference. But it is a huge difference in my mind to imply that a product is incapable of something vs. certain aspects of a product (automated scripts/actions) aren't as exploited in other products as they are in Photoshop. In other words, Fred could just as easily write his actions for Photo Paint. In fact, Photo Paint's "action" abilities actually exceed Photoshop as they are based on a programming language, Visual Basic. However, there is a BIG difference in user base. So it's probably bot worth Fred's efforts. But he could do it and do it in a more powerful way.

So while it may be nit picky, I'd say that Photoshop provides more "options" because of what its user base has written for it, not necessarily more "capability".

For many people, Photoshop will be the best option because of the reasons you site. However not for me. I know what I need to do and I know how to do it. Photoshop would offer me no additional capability over what I already have. It's main draw for me would be my inclusion in the mainstream. But frankly, that's not worth much to me.

My only beef is with those that confuse software capability (what can and cannot be done in a code), with advantages offered by huge markplace inertia (what can be made more accessible via automated scripts, books, tapes, etc.). They are different. There is a difference in not being able to white balance at all vs. white balancing being made easier to do via scripts.
I was simply stating my opinion that if one uses the D30 / D60 and
wants to achieve the best photos possible, PhotoShop gives the
greatest capabilities IMO.

It is very easy to download the great actions from Fred's site and
others which can do everything from correct white balance, remove
noise, recover highlights, increase resolution for printing, add
frames and many other features. All of these can operate in batch
mode on a group of images.

These actions only work with Photoshop, therefore, I was suggesting
if one uses the D30/D60 for the long term and wants to get the most
out of the photos it produces, Photoshop is the best option.

Chris
This is simply not true. I've been involved with digital imaging
for 15+ years. I will not now, nor will I ever take anything away
from Photoshop. But to say that one is bound to end up with
Photoshop is an inaccurate statement and one that breeds the kind
of Photoshop only mindset that many have.
 

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