Helping a friend - Am I enough equipped?

Hey all.

A friend of mine have a VIP day at his store. Technically, people (mostly women) will come to purchase make up and beauty products. There will be hairstylists and make up artists on site that will do their things on the ladies.

My friend needs someone to take pictures of the people after the make up / hairstyle makeover.
It will technically be a bust portrait (shoulders and up) only.

I'm pretty new at photography and my equipment is extremely limited. I told my friend and he really don't mind and understand there's a risk of a certain amount of the pictures being ugly or unusable.
BUT, I'd really like to have fun and give him a great final product.

Thus I'm wondering if my current equipment could be enough and if you have any hints for me for taking great makeup/hair portraits.

My equipment is:

• Canon XSI
• Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5 IS USM Lens with EW-78BII
• Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
• Kit Canon EF-S 18-55m f/3.5-5.6 II
• Speedlite 430EXii. I have a little pouch/diffuser in nylon that goes over the flash. Not sure if that's really usable/good.

In my friend's shop, people can take passport photos so he have a WHITE backdrop that he told me we could use.

The entire thing will happen during the day, inside. There will be ambiant light even though the forecast is rainy/cloudy. There will also be the neon light of the store (very high ceiling).

Any hints?

Am I ok? Should I buy some equipment? I don't want to dash money JUST for this shooting as I don't expect to often do things like that. I would'nt mind "investing" a bit of $ but nothing big like an L lens

If I keep this equipment, any hints for optimal portraits? What lens should I use? What setting?

Thanks for your help

Just don't get sued for using the XSi.

With your material I'd say that you are equipped just fine. I'd recommend using the 50mm combined with bounce flash and you'll do fine. I say this because I have a similar low-cost line-up, and I do fine The main thing you should do methinks is practice using flash. That can HUGELY improve the quality of your indoor photography. I recommend reading neil van niekerk's blog and book, and go from there. It is more suitablye than the more general strobist.com, given it's focus on wedding and portrait photography

cheezit said:

Just don't get sued for using the XSi.

Click to expand...

I'm new to this world. Please explain (I presume you were being ironic but do you mean the XSI sucks or some other inside joke I really don't get?!).

Thanks the_fat_zebra. I'll take a look at his blog!

Cheers

There was a link to youtube here a while ago, showing two "professional" photographers, knowing zilch about taking pictures or their equipment. They were sued over a wedding.
They lost. Badly.

They used an XSi, (and worse: only entry level lenses) which is not a bad camera in itself but for professional gigs it falls short, especially in uncaring/incapable hands.

Regards,
Alvatrus

You should be able to take some nice shots with your equipment. Perhaps you can take a trial run with your friend alone after the store closes but before the big day.

I don't know about your friends store but stores in my area have very high ceilings - not sure bounce the flash would be an option. Some of these beauty stores really have ceilings that are good for bouncing anyway (ie full of ductwork but not covered by tiles).

I would suggest you use the 430 EXII. If you aren't comfortable with it, try to get lots of practice in first (maybe with a friend, spouse, neighbor or other willing victim). I say set the camera on "M" and say 200 or 400 ISO. Keep your flash in ETTL and make sure it is set to evaluative metering. I would probably start with a shutter speed around 1/160 and without really knowing the effect your are looking for suggest if your focal length is around 50mm that you set an aperture around f8. It really depends on how much DOF your are looking for plus stopping the lense down a bit should improve the sharpness and minimize focus errors.

Anyway, that is where I would start - but seriously, see if you can use your friend at his site to do a little testing. Test out the effect of your diffuser, try different FEC settings. Play with it a bit.

Oh yeah, one more thing - passport photos!!! get the rules from the country you live in! Some places say no smiling and you have to watch to ensure the background is evenly lit. I would actually avoid the passport photo thing unless you can be sure of your results. You would probably charge for this and if they can't get their passports renewed or issued due to a bad picture it could come back to haunt your friend and his business...just be careful is all i am saying.

exeon said:

Hey all.

A friend of mine have a VIP day at his store. Technically, people (mostly women) will come to purchase make up and beauty products. There will be hairstylists and make up artists on site that will do their things on the ladies.

My friend needs someone to take pictures of the people after the make up / hairstyle makeover.
It will technically be a bust portrait (shoulders and up) only.

I'm pretty new at photography and my equipment is extremely limited. I told my friend and he really don't mind and understand there's a risk of a certain amount of the pictures being ugly or unusable.
BUT, I'd really like to have fun and give him a great final product.

Thus I'm wondering if my current equipment could be enough and if you have any hints for me for taking great makeup/hair portraits.

My equipment is:

• Canon XSI
• Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5 IS USM Lens with EW-78BII
• Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
• Kit Canon EF-S 18-55m f/3.5-5.6 II
• Speedlite 430EXii. I have a little pouch/diffuser in nylon that goes over the flash. Not sure if that's really usable/good.

In my friend's shop, people can take passport photos so he have a WHITE backdrop that he told me we could use.

The entire thing will happen during the day, inside. There will be ambiant light even though the forecast is rainy/cloudy. There will also be the neon light of the store (very high ceiling).

Any hints?

Am I ok? Should I buy some equipment? I don't want to dash money JUST for this shooting as I don't expect to often do things like that. I would'nt mind "investing" a bit of $ but nothing big like an L lens

If I keep this equipment, any hints for optimal portraits? What lens should I use? What setting?

Thanks for your help

Click to expand...

Agree with the recommendations to practice with the flash and you should be fine. The 50 1.8 will be great but the zooms will do fine if you need a little shorter focal length. Just don't go too short. 18mm isn't a flattering choice for portraits.

On the comment about the xsi and kit lenses -- there are situations where high end equipment helps to get a better shot and sometimes is even required for it. It really is the photographer more than the equipment though. I have decent equipment but wouldn't trust myself to shoot anyone's wedding. On the other hand there was a posting on one of these forums a while back where a pro decided to shoot a wedding just using an entry level Rebel and kit lens to challenge himself (he got the couple's permission) Pictures were amazing.

I'm guessing the two "pros" who were sued were slightly less talented. (and I think I saw some of their pictures, they definately deserved to be sued)

Thanks all for your answers.
Here are some comments and precisions.

For the passport photos comment, I badly explained myself.

My friend has a huge pharmacy. One of the services he offers is taking passport photos. To take passport photos, people sit down and behind them, he has a white backdrop.

He told me I could use that backdrop, move it to a spot in the cosmetics areas and use it to take portraits of the people during the VIP day. So it would be my background.

Is this good? I guess a white background is better then a pharmacy background, even blurred?

Also, based on my lens, which one should I use? I only have 1 body so I don't think it'll be a good idea to switch my lens during the day. So I'm thinking of choosing one lens and sticking to it.

Should I be shooting in AV mode? Which f stop should I be shooting at for best pictures? I would think that for the type of pictures I'm going to take (make up and hair), I want the sharpest pictures.

Also, for lighting, indeed, I think bouncing will be the best idea. I'm wondering though what to bounce on. The ceiling is way too high.

exeon said:

Thanks all for your answers.
Here are some comments and precisions.

For the passport photos comment, I badly explained myself.

My friend has a huge pharmacy. One of the services he offers is taking passport photos. To take passport photos, people sit down and behind them, he has a white backdrop.

He told me I could use that backdrop, move it to a spot in the cosmetics areas and use it to take portraits of the people during the VIP day. So it would be my background.

Click to expand...

Whew - I was worried you were to go take passport photos...thanks for clearing that up.

exeon said:

Is this good? I guess a white background is better then a pharmacy background, even blurred?

Click to expand...

That white wall can also be used to set your custom white balance - you don't have to but it may take one step out of PP for most of your pics.

exeon said:

Also, based on my lens, which one should I use? I only have 1 body so I don't think it'll be a good idea to switch my lens during the day. So I'm thinking of choosing one lens and sticking to it.

Should I be shooting in AV mode? Which f stop should I be shooting at for best pictures? I would think that for the type of pictures I'm going to take (make up and hair), I want the sharpest pictures.

Click to expand...

I say "M" mode...it really won't be that hard since you are using the flash. You could actually ask this question in the lighting forum and you may get some good responses and guidance there too.

exeon said:

Also, for lighting, indeed, I think bouncing will be the best idea. I'm wondering though what to bounce on. The ceiling is way too high.

Click to expand...

Well, you can't bounce without something to bounce off of. If the ceiling is too high, perhaps you can use your diffuser straight on or something like this:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=honl-snoot8&N=0&InitialSearch=yes

My wife bought me one of these "speed snoots" and I have to say, it really amazed me.

BTW - make sure you have spare batteries for your flash - well, maybe...you are in a pharmacy, they probably will sell you some

Thats plenty. I would use the diffuser on your flash to minimise shadows against walls etc.

exeon said:

Hey all.

A friend of mine have a VIP day at his store. Technically, people (mostly women) will come to purchase make up and beauty products. There will be hairstylists and make up artists on site that will do their things on the ladies.

My friend needs someone to take pictures of the people after the make up / hairstyle makeover.
It will technically be a bust portrait (shoulders and up) only.

I'm pretty new at photography and my equipment is extremely limited. I told my friend and he really don't mind and understand there's a risk of a certain amount of the pictures being ugly or unusable.
BUT, I'd really like to have fun and give him a great final product.

Thus I'm wondering if my current equipment could be enough and if you have any hints for me for taking great makeup/hair portraits.

My equipment is:

• Canon XSI
• Canon EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5 IS USM Lens with EW-78BII
• Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
• Kit Canon EF-S 18-55m f/3.5-5.6 II
• Speedlite 430EXii. I have a little pouch/diffuser in nylon that goes over the flash. Not sure if that's really usable/good.

In my friend's shop, people can take passport photos so he have a WHITE backdrop that he told me we could use.

The entire thing will happen during the day, inside. There will be ambiant light even though the forecast is rainy/cloudy. There will also be the neon light of the store (very high ceiling).

Any hints?

Am I ok? Should I buy some equipment? I don't want to dash money JUST for this shooting as I don't expect to often do things like that. I would'nt mind "investing" a bit of $ but nothing big like an L lens

If I keep this equipment, any hints for optimal portraits? What lens should I use? What setting?

Thanks for your help

Click to expand...

you don't need any more equipment. The 50mm 1.8 and the flash should get good results, start with f5.6 and shutter 1/100 ISO 200 or 400 - make sure the background is not distracting, a blank wall is OK. Use a diffuser on the flash. Maybe next time get an off camera sync cord and hot shoe plug for a little more direction to the light.

Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated.

Here's tons of new questions

So the optimal way should be to use my 50mm, with my subjects in front of the white background and bouncing my flash with something.

1) I read somewhere that the "sweet spot" for the 50mm is at f10/f11. Is this correct? Like I said, I'm not trying to be creative in this VIP day even though if I think of something creative, I'll try it. But technically, I want to take pictures of the subjects as clearly as possible and with true colors showing. So I'm not looking to get a special pose or a blurred background or anything. I'll probably shoot 400+ people so I won't have time to ask them to pose for me!

2) I have a couple of books, one on lighting. But the shooting is this Sunday so I'm a bit short on time. I did start reading a book (Scott Kelby's The Digital photography vol 2) but for now, I don't have the mindset of thinking about the "optimal" lighting. Technically, I take the picture, look in my viewfinder how it looks, check the curbs to make sure it's not under or over exposed. That's about it. I understand now I should try to minimize/eliminate shadows. But how do I "practice" flash shooting like you are proposing? What am I looking for/trying to get?

3) Set my custom white balance...Oh Oh. If I remember correctly, the white balance setup is that menu option where we set the white balance to auto, tungsten, daylight, etc. Right? If so, I usually keep it to Auto so I guess I should not for this shooting (I hate using that word! Is there another word to say "the event where I'll be taking pictures"?). What am I trying to get in setting my custom white balance?

4) I've never used the M mode. I'll try to educate myself on it though until then and I'll take tons of pictures each day using M mode. Let's see what I get! I was thinking of using AV and setting my f stop and not stressing about all the options but I don't mind trying the M mode!

5) About bouncing. Getting a second master flash (my 430ex ii is only slave) is out of the question for now. I don't want to invest in a second flash; for now anyway. The little bouncer you are linking seems interesting though. Is it much better then the little plastic bouncer that comes with the 430ex ii? The one that slides in and out of the flash itself?

6) Tripod? Should I set one up? I think all the pictures will be at the same spot so maybe it's a good idea? Is it really needed even though I'll be using my fast 50mm? I don't have one but my brother has one I can use.

Cheers!

I would go with a wider aperature. You don't need the dof that you'll get with f11, plus you don't really need the absolute sharpest pictures possible -- very few of us want to see every little detail in a portrait. Not suggesting you should intentionally screw up the focus but razor shart isn't required.

It will also make your flash have to work a lot less to light the scene. That means you'll burn through less batteries, and it will take less time to recycle. More importantly though, you'll get some of the ambient light which is probably a good thing since you will be using direct flash (even with a diffuser). If you use something like f11 you'll probably get a pretty harsh set of shadows. You can try it at your house and see how bad it is.

As to the setting, I'd echo going with manuall. The advantage is that you can find the right setting in a situation like this and just forget about it. If you use Av mode the camera may give you different results based on what the person is wearing.

exeon said:

Thanks for the feedback! Much appreciated.

Here's tons of new questions

So the optimal way should be to use my 50mm, with my subjects in front of the white background and bouncing my flash with something.

1) I read somewhere that the "sweet spot" for the 50mm is at f10/f11. Is this correct? Like I said, I'm not trying to be creative in this VIP day even though if I think of something creative, I'll try it. But technically, I want to take pictures of the subjects as clearly as possible and with true colors showing. So I'm not looking to get a special pose or a blurred background or anything. I'll probably shoot 400+ people so I won't have time to ask them to pose for me!

Click to expand...

As another poster mentioned F11 is too small an aperture for all the reasons he mentioned. I say go with f5.6 or f8. You will get shots that are plently sharp enough with decent DOF

exeon said:

2) I have a couple of books, one on lighting. But the shooting is this Sunday so I'm a bit short on time. I did start reading a book (Scott Kelby's The Digital photography vol 2) but for now, I don't have the mindset of thinking about the "optimal" lighting. Technically, I take the picture, look in my viewfinder how it looks, check the curbs to make sure it's not under or over exposed. That's about it. I understand now I should try to minimize/eliminate shadows. But how do I "practice" flash shooting like you are proposing? What am I looking for/trying to get?

3) Set my custom white balance...Oh Oh. If I remember correctly, the white balance setup is that menu option where we set the white balance to auto, tungsten, daylight, etc. Right? If so, I usually keep it to Auto so I guess I should not for this shooting (I hate using that word! Is there another word to say "the event where I'll be taking pictures"?). What am I trying to get in setting my custom white balance?

Click to expand...

For custom white balance (check your manual for the exact procedure) you set up your gear with the setting you want to use, take a picture of your white backdrop and tell the camera that THAT image is your white balance. Before you do that make sure you didn't blow the wall (over exposed it) in your review screen. If you did you need to change your settings. This should ensure you get consistent skin tones and will prevent the camera from adjusting the WB based on what your subjects may be wearing or even their skin tones.

exeon said:

4) I've never used the M mode. I'll try to educate myself on it though until then and I'll take tons of pictures each day using M mode. Let's see what I get! I was thinking of using AV and setting my f stop and not stressing about all the options but I don't mind trying the M mode!

Click to expand...

The beauty of "M" is you set it and forget it. You don't have to worry about the camera making other adjustments that will through the exposure off.

exeon said:

5) About bouncing. Getting a second master flash (my 430ex ii is only slave) is out of the question for now. I don't want to invest in a second flash; for now anyway. The little bouncer you are linking seems interesting though. Is it much better then the little plastic bouncer that comes with the 430ex ii? The one that slides in and out of the flash itself?

Click to expand...

If the 430 EX is the same as the 580EX in this respect, the little white card that you can extend or retract isn't really designed for bouncing much light (think about the angle it is to the flash bulb). It is really designed to create catch lights in your images.

Since you have high ceilings you can't bounce your flash without having something closer to bounce off of. Your choices with the equipement you have are really shooting head on without the diffuser or shooting head on with the diffuser. The diffuser will soften the lines of any shadows which you do want to do BUT the diffuser will also eat up some of the light so you may have to dial in +2/3 or even +1 stop of FEC. Speaking of shadows, the distance your subject is from the backdrop will also affect your shadows but you also need to evaluate the amout of room available to you and balance it out. Do you think you can keep the subjects 3 or 4 feet from the backdrop and still frame them properly in the space available to you?
The

exeon said:

6) Tripod? Should I set one up? I think all the pictures will be at the same spot so maybe it's a good idea? Is it really needed even though I'll be using my fast 50mm? I don't have one but my brother has one I can use.

Click to expand...

Tripod is not required. With a tripod you will likely still need to make adjustments since your subjects won't all be the same height anyway and you may want to try different angles. Speaking of angles, try to make sure that your subjects aren't "square" in the frame, have one shoulder back more and the head turned towards you. You may want to try and keep an eye out for reflections if they wear glasses (slightly repositioning the head can minimize or eliminate those nasty reflections)

exeon said:

Cheers!

Click to expand...

I think this is going to be a great day for you. It sounds like you have a bit to learn and this day may be the way to learn a whole lot!

DWEverett said:

I would go with a wider aperature. You don't need the dof that you'll get with f11, plus you don't really need the absolute sharpest pictures possible -- very few of us want to see every little detail in a portrait. Not suggesting you should intentionally screw up the focus but razor shart isn't required.

It will also make your flash have to work a lot less to light the scene. That means you'll burn through less batteries, and it will take less time to recycle. More importantly though, you'll get some of the ambient light which is probably a good thing since you will be using direct flash (even with a diffuser). If you use something like f11 you'll probably get a pretty harsh set of shadows. You can try it at your house and see how bad it is.

As to the setting, I'd echo going with manuall. The advantage is that you can find the right setting in a situation like this and just forget about it. If you use Av mode the camera may give you different results based on what the person is wearing.

Click to expand...

this is good advice, shoot at f5.6 in manual (flash in ETTL), you won't need a tripod, shoot in RAW and use some kind of diffuser on the flash

Wow you guys are a wealth of knowledge! Thank you so much.

I went this morning and bought a Honl speed snoot/reflector. I'll try it out during the next days and see how I feel using it. I took the larger one (8') as I'll probably be using it more as a reflector then a snoot. Am I right that the longer the reflector is, the better it is (i.e. as far as possible from the light source)?

I have so much to read/learn before the VIP day! "Settings the camera in ETTL", "stops of FEC", etc...All these are terms I heard of but have no clue what they mean! I'll make sure to at least understand them before going in that day!

As for the comment about learning, this is DEFINITELY the reason why I'm doing it. As I'm saying, even though my friend offered again and again to pay me, I refused. I'm not doing it for the money but for learning about DSLR! I purchased my XSI 4 months ago on boxing day to take pictures of my daughter and since then, the NEED to take better pictures arise daily! I definitely would love to take semi professional pictures and show them off to the world!

Again, thanks for your help! I'll read and test for a day or two and come back asking you more questions for sure

Cheers!

exeon said:

6) Tripod? Should I set one up? I think all the pictures will be at the same spot so maybe it's a good idea? Is it really needed even though I'll be using my fast 50mm? I don't have one but my brother has one I can use.

Click to expand...

Normally I stay away from tripods, but in this case, you are going to be taking multiple photos at the exact same spot, same height, etc. (or I am assuming you are), I would suggest borrowing the tripod, and having some flag around the base (or small barriers) so people don't trip over it. Not absolutely necessary, but it may save some worrying. So, now you have two opinions on tripods.

I think you said you were doing this Sunday. One thing I would seriously do is go on Saturday, get your location set up, white balance adjusted, and practice on your friend, kids, etc., so you get all your adjustments done ahead of time. If it takes you hours to figure out the perfect white balance, position everything to eliminate glares, and experiment with multiple settings, it would be well worth it. It will make the Sunday event much less difficult. Sunday you could concentrate on the people, not your gear.

Do you have a quick setup for printing out the photos immmediately, so people can see their shots? Just a thought...

I'll post soon the results of my pre-shooting (I went today to "practice"). I have tons of questions about this but first, there's something I don't understand.

I understand the "exposure" relationship between shutter speed, aperture and iso. I'm no expert but I do understand the "triangle".

BUT, something I don't understand about a test shoot I just did.

Like I said earlier, I purchased the Honl speed snoot/reflector. I'm using it as a reflector.

I took a picture in my home of my daughter. It's 5:44PM and the sun sets down around 7:30PM. So it's relatively well lit. No direct sunlight but ambient light is pretty good.

I have my flash on ETTL/auto and my Honl reflector installed. The flash head is pointing to the ceeling directly with no angle. A part of it reflects on the reflector.

My camera is set at 400ISO, in M mode, f5.6 and 1/250 shutter speed.

I take a picture. It's pretty under exposed in my opinion and I don't understand why! My main question is, can the fact that I've installed the Honl reflector actually under expose the picture? By this I mean, can the reflector be wrongly installed? Maybe the flash is shooting straight up and not reflecting on it?

How do I know if a picture is UNDER exposed? Over exposed is easy, the picture status flashes in over exposed area. But under exposed?

I tried the exact same picture using the AV mode. I set it to ISO400, f5.6 and the camera decided for a 1/6 shutter!!! Why so slow? I really don't feel the lighting in the house is lacking!

Also, when I press the FEL button (the little star), I get -2 flashing in the exposure meter.

Any hint?

Alright!

This might be long, I'm sorry before hand! By the way, the VIP day is tomorrow! Not Sunday!

Alright.

So I went in today and took some pictures of the location and the pharmacist. I have some big issues and some questions.

My friend told me he has a flash on tripods that I could use (the one they use for passport photos). Should I? I tried taking some pictures with that flash additionally on mine but it's pretty hard. The main reason is that this flash acts as slaves simply by shooting whenever another flash hits the little detector on the front.

The flash is a Sunpak Digital Flash. Here's the pic of the actual flash with some sort of chart on the back:









Whenever my flash light came on the front of that flash, that second flash fired. The tests I made were not good though. The flash seems way too hard when directed towards the subject. It gives a huge halo behind him on the white background. And I can't point it towards somewhere else because the front of that additional flash needs to be pointed towards my flash so that it detects when to fire!

Here's a picture from the place I will be set up. As you can see, the outside light is very far so it won't affect much the picture. ALL the lighting will come from the spots in the ceiling (but see how the ceiling is high?) and my flash.





Here's some picture I took from the pharmacist. Obviously these are just quick shots taken to see how the lighting will look. But I'm really starting to wonder how I can make some "dramatic" pictures or something nice. I feel like with the available lighting and settings and background, I won't be able to do anything special. All shots will be the same expect for the subject. I'm kind of worried not to be able to be creative :/









The white background is really not that wide so I'll have to be careful! PP this in photoshop will be really annoying.

I shot a picture of the pharmacist in another section where I won't be able to set the white background. The lighting there is A LOT more heavy because it's in the middle of the cosmetic section. There's spots everywhere, backlighted walls and mirrors. The difference is extreme but the problem would be I won't be able to have a white background. As you can see, the background will be pretty heavy.





What do you think? By the way, I did not use the Honl reflector. I felt it was not adding anything. It's almost impossible to actually have the reflector over the flash to reflect. It's in straight line with the flash so I feel it's not really reflecting

I seem to be unable to edit my post.

In the second picture of the pharmacist, notice the additional flash on the right. The halo is so obvious.