No K-x mirror slap problem here. Are you sure that you know how to hold a camera?

Hi,
Isn't 1/160th maximum flash sync? That would mean that at anything faster than 1/160th the second shutter leaf starts moving before the first one stops.
I think a flash burst only lasts about 1/700 sec. If you rely only on the light from the flash for exposure, I don't think you'd see any blur even with slow speed sync.

--
Lipo
 
Hi lipo!
Personally, I don't believe that the issue is a design flaw unless somebody has proven it somewhere.
And what would you accept as a proof?

I find Model Mike's post up in this thread be pretty educative. As was the original thread by YunZY. But you might be looking for more?
I have not yet seen a Pentax SLR or dSLR which had any sort of defect at all.
How many have you seen? :)

I mean, of the stuff like front focus or backfocus, loose rubber grip, the infamous K10D body crack or battery issues, I have only experienced two. Oh, no, three, malfunctioning mode dial, too.

Cheers
Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
'I don't own lenses. I pwn lenses.' (2009)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
I am not blaming others, I simply writes what's happening.

You think that I am blaming, but that is a thought coming from the idea that you believe that I have thoughts about other people and puts people in boxes with labels on them and those boxes contains values about others.

But I do not. I simply write what is happening.
I have no ideas of anyone being "good" or "bad" in here. I don't rate people.
So I do not blame when I write what is happening. There is no blaming involved.

I don't say that anyone is doing wrong, or doing right. I am writing from a neutral perspective about what is happening, a neutral perspective where nothing is wrong and nothing is right. Because "right" and "wrong" are not universal truths, they are personal individual ideas which I am not interested in.

So what you do here is that you misinterpret me, because you believe that I blame others. But I do not. I have never written anywhere that someone is doing wrong here.

You are reading things into my postings that are not there. I have written many times - what is written is written, what is not written is not there.

You are giving my neutral writing a "sound" or "taste". I do not write this in order to blame you, I simply writes what is happening. It happens because your brain is trying to "fill in the gaps". The brains needs a "sound" or "taste" or "colour" or "feel" to what it reads, and when it isn't there - the brain creates it. It is a natural happening inside the brain.

Of course I can't blame other peoples brains for doing like that, it is a natural thing to do. It happens automatically.

The interesting thing is that you accuse me of blaming others when I simply write what is happening. Now, my experience is that people writes from themselves, from where they are. So an interresting question is - do you often blame others? Because you are thinking (thoughts) that I blame others, so there is an idea inside of you about blaming. Where does it come from? Are you blaming others?

I simply asking because I am curious about what is happening inside of you. I don't ask in order to blame, I simply ask because I am curious. Nothing more, nothing less.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
So you are in fact a Professor of Psychology?
No I am not a professor psychology.

That was an interesting interpretation. Must I be a professor of psychology in order to write about psychology? Only professors in psychology have an understanding about psychology and is able to write about it and discuss it? I simply ask, is this your beliefs? ( I don't say they are, I am simply asking).

I am trained in psychology, I have studied it and I still studies it, but I am not a professor. I have choosen not to because my main interest is in alternative psychology and in some areas this is in conflict with traditional psychology, and because of this conflict I have no interest in being a professor.

--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
You think that I am blaming, but that is a thought coming from the idea that you believe that I have thoughts about other people and puts people in boxes with labels on them and those boxes contains values about others.
Okay. Now I am beginning to understand the source of the problem.

Joe
 
Now you are creating the story and wrongfully accusing people of being hateful > against you.
First, he can answer himself I believe.

Second, I was not only answering this post of him. I was answering in a broader context. I and Mr Josepth has had several discussions since many years back, even long before this forum existed, back on the PDML.

This is with this background I wrote and answered, so not only this posting from him but in fact all postings from him directed to me that he has written for many many years, and his complaints for many years. So him and I have a story together, sort of.

You don't know it I take it, but then it is understandable because you lack information about it. So you interpret because you lack information, and as usual you believe you are writing the truth and facts.
You accuse those with a problem with their gear of not being able to accept that > there are working cameras.
Yes, because often when I mention that my gear is working I am being personal attacked and flamed because my gear is working. So those individuals can't accept that there are working Pentax equipment without faults, if they could accept it they wouldn't be flaming me for having working equipment.
Do you really think that they think that all cameras are faulty? No, I have not seen > that here.
It has not been mentioned in this thread, but it has been mentioned in other post. Just a few days ago there was a post from one not believing it exist a K-x without the problem. So yes, it is clear that it exist persons that believes that all K-x are faulty. And it is my mission to balance up those discussions.

--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
I'm sorry I came to a wrong conclusion when you said you were a teacher and were going on and on with some strange psycho-babble.

I found your web site. It explains a lot (assuming Roland and Raphael are interchangeable).
 
Although, it could be a combination of factors I suppose, so maybe there is a > general flaw with the K-x.
It can be hard, or less easy, to judge that.
If everyone would have a problem, then yes it would be a clear design flaw.

But now there are some that are experiencing this issue, and there are those that do not. It could be something like too wide tolerancies in manufacturing, it could be bad parts supplied from parts supplier, it could be too complicated design that makes it hard for the assemblent workers to get it right, it could be something else and most probably it is - I believe - a combination of several factors.

But I don't see it as a general flaw, because if it would - it would affect all K-x and it does not.

--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
I am a teacher, but not in traditional psychology.

I have three first names, and 'Roland' being the last of them and 'Raphael' being the middle name. Now, 'Roland' has I used since childhood but I felt I wanted a change, and 'Raphael' is more in tune with where I am now.

I have tried to change name on my account here but it seems that I can't. And since I am too lazy to delete it and create a new account, I let it be.
--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
Wow, more of that. At least now in one post.
None. I was simply trying to explain what is happening here and that you are responsible for your interpretations and feelings. I am not responsible for your interpretations and feelings.
As Joe said. We are responsible what our actions and words cause.
What is happening here is that this interpretation is a story that is created within you, and it comes from your beliefs, your blue print, your patterns, your thoughts, everything you have felt and feel and done, your experiencies.

This is science, this is what humans do.
Science, well, well.
You do have some points there, I have to admit.
But.
And you are at least as guilty as you make me sound:

See my reply to your reply to Joseph further down. You are creating a story and can't see outside its storyline.
It seems to me that you believe your interpretations of what I write is the truth, that you see facts. But you are not. You are missing my point over and over again
You are missing my point. I explained to you why several posters react like they do to your posts.
You are ignoring that.
In your story , the fault is with those misunderstanding you.
But you have a responsibility for your action and words.

And when several people "misunderstand" you, then, maybe, Roland, consider whether you might be misexpressing yourself.
In order to explain how interpretation works and I was trying to point out to you that you creates your thoughts and feelings, it is not me that creates them for you. They happen inside of you. Your interpretations are your responsibility.
This is incomplete, apologistic and wrong.

We interact. You cannot simply put the blame onto one side alone. Sender and receiver both have a responsibility.
It is not esoteric stuff, it is basic psychology.
I don't think so.
At least not in the way you apply it.
I was trying to be to the point as much as I could.
I am sure you did.
If you need several messages to make your point, something is wrong.
Instead of a long post, I divided my posting in several messages. Like different chapters in a book, instead of one long chapter.
No, it is like different books, when it should be different chapters.
My intention was to make it more readable and understandable to take it in smaller bits instead of in a big chunk.
Use the "Return" key to create paragraphs.
You claim something is wrong because I did this. It is your interpretation again, because you would never do it. But, being the writer that I am, and also being a teacher as my profession, I am used to split up things in smaller bits to make them easier to swallow - so to speak.
Again, if you mention these credentials, it comes across as if you try to elevate yourself above those who are not writers or teachers. I write, too. Like, here. And I teach, too. So? Who's more right now? And if you now reply that you didn't mean it like that and that it is my blueprint causing this to misunderstand you: Maybe. Or maybe many other people would have the same reaction who mentions his credentials like this.
Also, your (ab)use of quoting makes it hard to follow your thought processes.
I tried the best I could to make me understandable.
I believe you did. Do you think you succeeded?
Do you agree that my way of quoting makes discussions easier to follow?
I am being ironic and if you can't take my way of irony, then please understand that I am not you.
This wasn't irony. You cannot overrule the definition of irony. Irony is not just a joke. Maybe you were joking, but not ironic.
And that is creating misinterpretations and misunderstandings. Because you believe that I think and feel the same way as you do, and it is obvious to me that I do not.
I've said it - I realise our barrier is much bigger than laguage. I still think that rules of physics and logic should apply to all of us.

But if one of us feels free to redefine irony, I guess that was a naive assumption.
I put "test" into quotation marks (not questions marks), because that "test" was > so flawed that calling it test would be an insult to a real test.
That is your interpretation of it, not mine.
You have obvious a big idea about what a test is and not.
I think there might be a misinterpretation. ;) I was referring to your sunlight test, which was flawed. I cannot make any comments to the second one you did and therefore did not direct my comment at that.

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
'I don't own lenses. I pwn lenses.' (2009)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
Now you are creating the story and wrongfully accusing people of being hateful > against you.
First, he can answer himself I believe.
Sure. Does that mean I cannot reply to your post?
Second, I was not only answering this post of him. I was answering in a broader context. I and Mr Josepth has had several discussions since many years back, even long before this forum existed, back on the PDML.

This is with this background I wrote and answered, so not only this posting from him but in fact all postings from him directed to me that he has written for many many years, and his complaints for many years. So him and I have a story together, sort of.
Are you the same guy not putting people into boxes with labels?
Then how come you pile all that past stuff into your reply to him?
You don't know it I take it, but then it is understandable because you lack information about it. So you interpret because you lack information, and as usual you believe you are writing the truth and facts.
Seriously, Roland, you write a post in a public forum which alledgedly requires such a huge history of knowledge to understand and you think I am the one at fault?
You accuse those with a problem with their gear of not being able to accept that > there are working cameras.
Yes, because often when I mention that my gear is working I am being personal attacked and flamed because my gear is working.
You still don't get it why you are criticised, do you?
It has not been mentioned in this thread, but it has been mentioned in other post. Just a few days ago there was a post from one not believing it exist a K-x without the problem. So yes, it is clear that it exist persons that believes that all K-x are faulty. And it is my mission to balance up those discussions.
Ah. Two wrongs make a right...

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
'I don't own lenses. I pwn lenses.' (2009)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
I understand your point of view on sending your positive impressions about Pentax. I feel the same as you, because whoever reads the posts on this forum or anyother forums about other brands may feel there's no working camera or lens out there and that will repel them from buying any stuff at all. They should know that there are lots of perfectly working cameras and lenses ( up to their design limitations) and that there are so many happy owners taking great photos with whatever stuff they do own.

My experience with pentax pieces date back to more than 2 years ago when I bought my ex-K20d and since then I have not a single issue with my pentax pieces at all, but there may be some anytime which is not unexpected because cameras and lenses aren't made to last forever. The only thing I should add is there's nothing wrong with Pentax that's out of proportion to other brands.

I own a K7 and a KX (which I tested again at 1/80" and 1/100" on almost empty batteries and SR on with no issues) and a bunch of DA*s (16-50, 50-135, 60-250 and 200 and still no issues with SDM after 2 years) and DAs (18-55II and 55-300) and DFA 100 and FA50/1.4 and AF540FGZ with no pin defect yet.

I hope they'd last forever, but I won't hesitate to buy new ones or send them in for repair if they won't.
 
Personally, I don't believe that the issue is a design flaw unless somebody has proven it somewhere.
And what would you accept as a proof?

I find Model Mike's post up in this thread be pretty educative. As was the original thread by YunZY. But you might be looking for more?
Yes Jens, Model Mike's test proves that there is an issue with his camera. It is different from showing that the K-x model in general has a design flaw. For that to be proven either everybody with a K-x should be able to reproduce such test results, or somebody should physically take apart a K-x and somehow illustrate what is going on and why it is a flaw in the design of the K-x. As far as I know the K-x has the same SR as the K100D. If there is a design flaw, where is it? A test of one camera can show a problem with that camera, but not all K-x's are faulty as a design flaw would demonstrate.
I have not yet seen a Pentax SLR or dSLR which had any sort of defect at all.
How many have you seen? :)
Good question! That is if I should take you seriously...
I mean, of the stuff like front focus or backfocus, loose rubber grip, the infamous K10D body crack or battery issues, I have only experienced two. Oh, no, three, malfunctioning mode dial, too.
On my DS I've experienced: Loose rubber grip, backfocus, sticking quick-shift focus, unresponsive e-dial, and underexposure of which I can attribute to the camera as opposed to user error.

On my K10D body: One hot pixel on the rear LCD.

On my 30 year old MX which I bought used: No problems.

None of the above are defects (when you've put tens of thousands of exposures on the body or handled it for hours every day through extreme heat and cold, damp, dry, and dusty conditions). What I had with the DS were maintenance issues, and lack of weather seals. With the K10D's one hot pixel, I'd consider it an insignificant technical flaw which one may easily run into with any product. An artifact! Apparently, if you want a flawless Pentax then go for the basic old manual full frame 35mm. film MX.
Cheers
Jens

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
'I don't own lenses. I pwn lenses.' (2009)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
--
Lipo
 
Isn't 1/160th maximum flash sync? That would mean that at anything faster than 1/160th the second shutter leaf starts moving before the first one stops.
I think a flash burst only lasts about 1/700 sec. If you rely only on the light from the flash for exposure, I don't think you'd see any blur even with slow speed sync.
What you would get would be a series of sharp images, each covering a portion of the sensor at each flash of the strobe in high speed synch.
 
You are missing my point.
And you are missing my point.
I explained to you why several posters react like they do to your posts.
I know and I answered that it is misinterpretations and I answered with why misinterpretations happens.
You are ignoring that.
That is your interpretation, but if I'm really ignoring it - why would I bother writing so many messages trying to answering it and explaining it?

So you see, your interpretation of me ignoring is not correct from my point of view.
In your story , the fault is with those misunderstanding you.
It is your story that I believe there is a fault with them.
Again, I have never written that there is any fault here.
So why are you saying it is my story that there is a fault?
Again, I don't see any fault. I simply explained what is happening.
But you have a responsibility for your action and words.
Yes, I have.

But you are trying to make me responsible for your misinterpretations and your misbeliefs.

I have explained several times what I mean, I have gone deep into what I mean and I'm telling you that what I write is written and there is nothing more in there than the exact words that are in there. And you are clearly ignoring this since you keep on telling me your interpretations and they are still very far from what I actually writes and what I actually think and what I am actually trying to say, and you don't even get it that you are very far from what I'm saying.

So how can you believe that you can connect with me when you are simply writing to me misinterpretations and misunderstandings about what I am doing, what I think, what I believe and what I mean?

So what happens is that I answer with "No, what I meant was" and "No, what I am doing is" and "No, what I was trying to say was" and you still keep on telling me your interpretations without accepting the fact that you have gotten it all wrong.

You completely ignore my corrections of your misinterpretations.

Since it is my writing, I am the one that can tell if it is interpreted right or wrong. And I tell you that you have gotten it all wrong, and you are still getting it all wrong. You don't even see what you are doing here.

And because of this, you can't connect with me because what you write about what I write has nothing to do with what I actually wrote.
No, it is like different books, when it should be different chapters.
No, it is not different books. It is different chapters.

Again, you are claiming your interpretation is worth more than my interpretation, that your interpretation is the fact here. And it is not.

Your interpretation is not fact about my writing. Only I have the facts of what I mean, because I was the one that wrote it in the first place. So it is chapters. Because it came from me. You are trying to make something else out of it than what is there, as usual and you don't even see it happening inside of you.
Again, if you mention these credentials, it comes across as if you try to elevate > yourself above those who are not writers or teachers.
Again you are reading in-between the lines. I have never written that I elevate myself above others. You are, again, reading things that are not there. Why can't you stop doing it? (I know why you can't stop, it is an automatic pattern as I have explained, but you could - if you wanted to - become aware of it and in this you could notice it and when you do, an interesting thing may happen inside of you if you are open to it).

I have written many times - what I have written is written, it is nothing more there than what is written in actual words. And you keep ignoring this and therefore you get things all wrong.

I was simply trying to explain why I divided my point in several messages.

You have a belief that I value people in the sense that I see some as better than others. In my world, no one is better and no one is worse. In my world, no one is "good" and no one is "bad". We are all equal. It may not be so in your world, but it is so in my world.

But, my background means that I am used to certain things and I simply explained that I am used doing certain things and my experience is that this works very well.
Who's more right now?
It may be a question of "Who's more right now" for you, but in my world it is not a matter of being right or wrong or doing right or wrong. I am writing from a neutral perspective where I simply explain what is happening and how things works and what I mean.
You cannot overrule the definition of irony.
We all have personal definitions of everything and to me irony is a form of a joke.
I think there might be a misinterpretation. ;) I was referring to your sunlight test, > which was flawed.
It is interresting that you call it flawed. I wrote very little about it. I gave very little information. And you automatically interprets it as being "flawed".

Now, that is interesting, especially when you haven't got enough information to make a judgement about it being "flawed" or not.

--
Take care
R
http://www.flickr.com/photos/raphaelmabo
 
My experience with pentax pieces date back to more than 2 years ago when I bought my ex-K20d and since then I have not a single issue with my pentax pieces at all
Two whole years. Wow!

My experience with Pentax gear began in 1966. I had no problems until the the DA* lenses and the K20D came out.

Joe
 
Yes Jens, Model Mike's test proves that there is an issue with his camera. It is different from showing that the K-x model in general has a design flaw.
I think we do have enough reports by now to realise that this is not just Mike's camera.
For that to be proven either everybody with a K-x should be able to reproduce such test results
This is not the point. No one seriously tries to prove that all K-X are affected. Suppliers change, batches are different. There can be an issue with only part of the production being influenced.
, or somebody should physically take apart a K-x and somehow illustrate what is going on and why it is a flaw in the design of the K-x.
We are not Pentax's QA or RD department.

I asked you what you would need to acknowledge that there is an issue. And your reply is: Someone has to find the cause. Sounds a bit too much to me.
Didn't we have the discussion on diagnosing problems already?
As far as I know the K-x has the same SR as the K100D.
I seriously doubt that it exactly the same. Your assumptions sounds very unlikely. Even if it is, there are other parts in the camera.
If there is a design flaw, where is it? A test of one camera can show a problem with that camera, but not all K-x's are faulty as a design flaw would demonstrate.
What exactly is your understanding of design and manufacture?

Aren't you involved with violin restoration or even production? If so, do all violins that are made to one plan sound exactly the same?

Cameras have hundreds of parts with tolerances and fits and so. It is very common for a problem to show only in a section of the production run. This can be a batch or even completely random.
I have not yet seen a Pentax SLR or dSLR which had any sort of defect at all.
How many have you seen? :)
Good question! That is if I should take you seriously...
Yes.
None of the above are defects
Ah, okay.
Apparently, if you want a flawless Pentax then go for the basic old manual full frame 35mm. film MX.
Should I take you seriously now? ;)

--

'Well, 'Zooming with your feet' is usually a stupid thing as zoom rings are designed for hands.' (Me, 2006)
'I don't own lenses. I pwn lenses.' (2009)
My Homepage: http://www.JensRoesner.de
 
Although, it could be a combination of factors I suppose, so maybe there is a > general flaw with the K-x.
It can be hard, or less easy, to judge that.
If everyone would have a problem, then yes it would be a clear design flaw.

But now there are some that are experiencing this issue, and there are those that do not. It could be something like too wide tolerancies in manufacturing, it could be bad parts supplied from parts supplier, it could be too complicated design that makes it hard for the assemblent workers to get it right, it could be something else and most probably it is - I believe - a combination of several factors.

But I don't see it as a general flaw, because if it would - it would affect all K-x and it does not.
That's how I see it as well, but instead there have only been a handful of people who've reported this problem on the forum, and they are generally speaking, the type of people who: Don't mind testing their cameras, and they post on the forums to share their findings with others who may be like minded. I don't feel that they are trying to ruin Pentax's name at all. This is just a part of their photography experience. People who spend time testing their cameras, are not the majority of people who use these types of cameras. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't have proof of this except for the handful of photographers that I know personally. None of my friends test their cameras as much as I do, and I don't even do it that much. I know about seven or eight serious amateur photographers who mostly shoot Pentax dSLR's, a couple Nikons, and none of them test their cameras like some of the people on this forum.
--
Lipo
 

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