Prices of ZS7 and ZS3 are getting closer...

Hello:

Two weeks ago the ZS7 price was a firm $399 while the ZS3 price was dropping and hovering around $250...Now the ZS7 can be had for close tp $350 and the ZS3 has generally inched up to almost $300...Maybe not quite those numbers everywhere, but the price trend has surely switched..

Something is definitely moving the market away from the ZS7 and toward the ZS3...Not sure I've seen a new camera drop so suddenly when many don't even have it in stock yet...I guess the few reviews and less than stellar sample pics are taking a larger toll than one would expect at this stage..

lw

Larry Winters said:

Something is definitely moving the market away from the ZS7 and toward the ZS3...Not sure I've seen a new camera drop so suddenly when many don't even have it in stock yet... I guess the few reviews and less than stellar sample pics are taking a larger toll than one would expect at this stage..

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.

It's a definite possibility. Certainly one would have to be in extreme denial to pay more for worse performance where it counts, i.e., in image quality, but there are many people like that so the new model will do well regardless.

There's also the fact that the former model was a universally acclaimed, ground-breaking, state-of-the-art camera which got ton after ton of favorable, even enthusiastic reviews, with a large fan base and a myriad excellent results to cater for it. As such, it's becoming a real cult classic (just like the LX3 is for a different audience), and people are getting one real fast , while they last, which won't be long now that the new, "improved" model has been released to supersede it and production of the former, now officially obsoleted model has stopped.

On the other hand, the "improved" model seems to be anything but , and just keeps on collecting disappointing review after disappointing review, with most concerns centered on what matters more, i.e., worse image quality, worse dynamic range, and worse high-ISO performance, this last point verging on abysmal .

That's what happens when product features are dictated by marketing, not engineering. Engineering would recommend reducing the pixel density to sane levels (instead of the current, demential über overcrowding) in order to markedly improve image quality but marketing wouldn't allow that as they want a 12 or 14 Mpixel label on the new model (not a 9 Mpixel one) since the masses have previously been thoroughly brain-washed into believing that the higer the pixel count the better the IQ. So engineering is silenced and marketing prevails.

Nevertheless Panasonic will probably sell a lot of them to the undiscerning masses and thus marketing will get their medals as usual and will feel fully vindicated on their strategy. You just have to read what a number of people post here to know that this will indeed be the case.

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See my Lumix ZS3 (TZ7) pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/mirepapa/

It could also be a simple equation that a given vendor will use for pricing:
Price = function of (supply on hand, and rate of sale approximating demand).

I think there was a build-up on supply of ZS3 around christmas, when the ZS3 price started dropping big time.

As more and more vendors get the ZS7, supply will increase and rate of sale will decrease (due to increased availability from other vendors).

Not sure where you are shopping, but Amazon has the zs3 for $250 and BH photo has it for $240. I did get mine with a president's day coupon about a month ago for $225, but the prices really have not risen.

ZS7 was just introduced. They always slowly drop into the real market price from MSRP.

You can get the blue ZS3 from 6ave for $239.40 shipped with the bonusbuy coupon code.

Can't get black from them anymore, though, says 'discontinued'. And the killer price I got last week is apparently done ($220 shipped).

Kind of wish I'd have opted for blue, but I guess black is cool, too. I did get a bit bored with my silver TZ5. Silver just doesn't convey 'serious electronics' to me.

I just had a black ZS3 delivered from Amazon for $240 Friday, so the prices sound close to the same as they were last Wednesday 3/17 -- $240-$250.

Rich
Rochester, NY

Trensamiro said:

It's a definite possibility. Certainly one would have to be in extreme denial to pay more for worse performance where it counts, i.e., in image quality, but there are many people like that so the new model will do well regardless.

There's also the fact that the former model was a universally acclaimed, ground-breaking, state-of-the-art camera which got ton after ton of favorable, even enthusiastic reviews, with a large fan base and a myriad excellent results to cater for it. As such, it's becoming a real cult classic (just like the LX3 is for a different audience), and people are getting one real fast , while they last, which won't be long now that the new, "improved" model has been released to supersede it and production of the former, now officially obsoleted model has stopped.

On the other hand, the "improved" model seems to be anything but , and just keeps on collecting disappointing review after disappointing review, with most concerns centered on what matters more, i.e., worse image quality, worse dynamic range, and worse high-ISO performance, this last point verging on abysmal .

That's what happens when product features are dictated by marketing, not engineering. Engineering would recommend reducing the pixel density to sane levels (instead of the current, demential über overcrowding) in order to markedly improve image quality but marketing wouldn't allow that as they want a 12 or 14 Mpixel label on the new model (not a 9 Mpixel one) since the masses have previously been thoroughly brain-washed into believing that the higer the pixel count the better the IQ. So engineering is silenced and marketing prevails.

Nevertheless Panasonic will probably sell a lot of them to the undiscerning masses and thus marketing will get their medals as usual and will feel fully vindicated on their strategy. You just have to read what a number of people post here to know that this will indeed be the case.

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trensamiro, man, ive seen you post some smart and educational things, but this constant zs3 mas-turbation gets pretty annoying after a while.

you're behaving like a cartoon character, these endless rants about TZ10 have become a joke. it's a circus performance every time. it completely demeans other useful things you sometimes post.

how can you expect to be taken seriously anymore?

btw: i've had ixus cameras my whole life, now i have zs3 and PQ wise it's the worst camera i have ever owned. but who gives a shyt.

PipeDream said:

Trensamiro said:

It's a definite possibility. Certainly one would have to be in extreme denial to pay more for worse performance where it counts, i.e., in image quality, but there are many people like that so the new model will do well regardless.

There's also the fact that the former model was a universally acclaimed, ground-breaking, state-of-the-art camera which got ton after ton of favorable, even enthusiastic reviews, with a large fan base and a myriad excellent results to cater for it. As such, it's becoming a real cult classic (just like the LX3 is for a different audience), and people are getting one real fast , while they last, which won't be long now that the new, "improved" model has been released to supersede it and production of the former, now officially obsoleted model has stopped.

On the other hand, the "improved" model seems to be anything but , and just keeps on collecting disappointing review after disappointing review, with most concerns centered on what matters more, i.e., worse image quality, worse dynamic range, and worse high-ISO performance, this last point verging on abysmal .

That's what happens when product features are dictated by marketing, not engineering. Engineering would recommend reducing the pixel density to sane levels (instead of the current, demential über overcrowding) in order to markedly improve image quality but marketing wouldn't allow that as they want a 12 or 14 Mpixel label on the new model (not a 9 Mpixel one) since the masses have previously been thoroughly brain-washed into believing that the higer the pixel count the better the IQ. So engineering is silenced and marketing prevails.

Nevertheless Panasonic will probably sell a lot of them to the undiscerning masses and thus marketing will get their medals as usual and will feel fully vindicated on their strategy. You just have to read what a number of people post here to know that this will indeed be the case.

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trensamiro, man, ive seen you post some smart and educational things, but this constant zs3 mas-turbation gets pretty annoying after a while.

you're behaving like a cartoon character, these endless rants about TZ10 have become a joke. it's a circus performance every time. it completely demeans other useful things you sometimes post.

how can you expect to be taken seriously anymore?

btw: i've had ixus cameras my whole life, now i have zs3 and PQ wise it's the worst camera i have ever owned. but who gives a shyt.

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Couldn't agree more with Pipedream. (But I don't agree with any implication that somehow Panny has panicked that they have a dud on their hands and are dropping prices of the ZS7). ZS3 has been a popular camera, but it is certainly not a "cult classic." I've seen a handful of early reviews of the new model, but no evidence of "disappointing review after disappointing review." And, finally, it is insulting to say that anyone who buys a ZS7 is a member of the "undiscerning masses."

There may not be "bad review after bad review", but the Dcresource review was very disappointing though - and argued very well with the photographic proof present. Cameralabs and Imagingresource weren't as openly negative, but especially the latter one didn't exactly scream enthusiasm either.

I'm disappointed with the new generation of pocket superzooms. Sony's back-lit sensor isn't quite ready for primetime yet, and the 14MP sensors seem to be a few bridges too far with current tech (not just on the TZ10). I think Panasonic doesn't have the tech quite yet to really improve on the TZ5/TZ7 (likewise for Canon with SX210 vs Sx200), but because marketing demands a new model every year and at least as many pixels as the competition, they just had to put out a 14MP model. Even when they likely knew they would go backwards in IQ. It happened to Fuji, too.

Hello:

A black ZS3 is now $349 and others are anywhere from $279 to $399...Nowhere near the Sub $250 just last week...And sure there are a few left where the vendors haven't wised up...In a month the ZS3 will probably cost more than the ZS7...

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-ZS3-Digital-Stabilized-Black/dp/B001QFZMCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1269320875&sr=1-1

Bottom line, last week was LAST week and like I stated before the prices are on the move up for the ZS3...Glad I bought my second one for $239 just 2 weeks ago...

lw

Hello Trensamiro:

Hey, when you're good toot your own horn, I say...The ZS3 may well be the pinacle of the current Z series cameras...The NR displayed so far on the ZS7 reminds me of the TZ1 before Panny got their Venus engine really in gear...

There wasn't anything in the ZS7 that excited me before the reviews or samples and certainly not now...I'm just amazed at how quickly the market is seeing this descrepancy as well...

lw

Larry Winters said:

Hello:

A black ZS3 is now $349 and others are anywhere from $279 to $399...Nowhere near the Sub $250 just last week...And sure there are a few left where the vendors haven't wised up...In a month the ZS3 will probably cost more than the ZS7...

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-ZS3-Digital-Stabilized-Black/dp/B001QFZMCO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1269320875&sr=1-1

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WAHEY! FAR OUT! I'm glad I got in at $220 (for a sweeeet blue one)
That price hike is nuts.

I remember having a discussion with my brother before the TZ10 came out and him saying that he thought TZ7 prices would drop but I thought they'd go skywards just like the Canon SD880 did when it got superceded by an inferior model.

I win

PipeDream said:

btw: i've had ixus cameras my whole life, now i have zs3 and PQ wise it's the worst camera i have ever owned. but who gives a shyt.

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Everything you just said about the other guy is rendered equally worthless by making this kind of statement.

I've read a lot of Trens' posts. He's emphatic, sure. Not really what I'd call rude (unlike the total ad hominem blitz a few such as yourself are launching on him lately). Is he an advocate? Yes, and perhaps a bit overzealous. So what? He's not calling people names or saying other cameras are 'the worst'.

Frankly, apart from his idiosyncratic traits such as the boldface and aggressive defense of the ZS3, he seems to be fairly informative, if not unbiased... Though unfettered brand blindness is not exactly commonplace around here. At least his posts are focused on cameras, not tearing someone down.

I think if you and the other people piling on have such a problem with him and don't think he contributes much to the positive as you say, don't read his posts. Put him on your ignore list. Why compound the issue with a long insulting rant topped off with a total trollbait comment like 'ZS3 = worst camera I've owned'?

sensibill said:

billzilla2000 said:

btw: i've had ixus cameras my whole life, now i have zs3 and PQ wise it's the worst camera i have ever owned. but who gives a shyt.

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Everything you just said about the other guy is rendered equally worthless by making this kind of statement.

I've read a lot of Trens' posts. He's emphatic, sure. Not really what I'd call rude (unlike the total ad hominem blitz a few such as yourself are launching on him lately). Is he an advocate? Yes, and perhaps a bit overzealous. So what? He's not calling people names or saying other cameras are 'the worst'.

Frankly, apart from his idiosyncratic traits such as the boldface and aggressive defense of the ZS3, he seems to be fairly informative, if not unbiased... Though unfettered brand blindness is not exactly commonplace around here. At least his posts are focused on cameras, not tearing someone down.

I think if you and the other people piling on have such a problem with him and don't think he contributes much to the positive as you say, don't read his posts. Put him on your ignore list. Why compound the issue with a long insulting rant topped off with a total trollbait comment like 'ZS3 = worst camera I've owned'?

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Hi Bill

Firstly I like your sensibill posts

Not to defend Pipedream, and I agree in principle with what you are saying, but the problem with some of these self-appointed experts is not what they say, it's the way they say it. Such behaviour isn't tolerated in other moderated forums, hence they seem to gravitate here to DPR. (and the ignore button doesn't work in replies...)

At first I thought Mr T. was excellent, then as time went on I couldn't help notice that arrogant and worse condescending comments and tone in general were creeping into his comments towards other people. Not only is his rabid fanboyism against DPR Rules, but it's just completely unnecessary and counter-productive.

As is the case in many areas of our lives, we tend to notice and remember the negatives more than the positives. In this case, the 80% of his genuinely excellent help and advice is unfortunately marred by the other 20% of his posts that can offend with an out-of-control ego and condescending comments and tone. And that is what causes dissent and pisses people off.

Kind Regards
Greg

--



He who cannot laugh at himself need not worry - others will do it for him

$249 ZS3 is available in B&H now.

Hey thanks - I agree 100% about it being 'how' some of the self-appointed 'experts' render advice warranting comment, even if they're otherwise informative. I've seen some replies to honest questions that are pretty snide and condescending.

Haven't been here long, but so far I haven't seen much of that in Tren's posts. Disdain for other models and for critics he disagrees with definitely, but not so much for other folks - especially if they're asking for advice. As for ego, who cares? If the guy thinks his shots are all-that, doesn't bother me.

If there's anything more disruptive to topic flow than brand bias, it's personal attacks. Either ignore the guy or ask him to tone down the rhetoric. There's just no excuse for childish attacks capped with an obvious attempt to bait Trensamiro further ('ZS3 is the worst...').

zs1234 said:

$249 ZS3 is available in B&H now.

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You're missing the point...I'm trying to demonstrate the OVERALL price pattern change, which is up dramatically up for the ZS3...Not who can find the lowest price for 1-2 retailers who still haven't adjusted...

Personally I quit buying from B&H after their continual policy of sending out returned products and selling as new...In 1 year I received 3 cameras that had been USED and sold to me as new...After confronting them they finally admitted this was/is their practice...Their policy is that if the product is not defective ENOUGH to send back to the manufacturer they will ship it back out as new...Basically someone can use it for the 14 days, send it back, and B&H will sell it again...Sure if the camera is working OK, what's the problem...Nothing I guess, but after 3 times it finally rubbed me the wrong way..

This may indeed be the practice of many others but after ordering HUNDREDS of items, including cameras, I've NEVER received a previously used product or camera from Amazon...I don't know where all the returned products go exactly, but they sure haven't come to me initially or through a replacement order...

lw

Larry Winters said:

zs1234 said:

$249 ZS3 is available in B&H now.

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Click to expand...

Personally I quit buying from B&H after their continual policy of sending out returned products and selling as new...In 1 year I received 3 cameras that had been USED and sold to me as new...After confronting them they finally admitted this was/is their practice...Their policy is that if the product is not defective ENOUGH to send back to the manufacturer they will ship it back out as new...Basically someone can use it for the 14 days, send it back, and B&H will sell it again...Sure if the camera is working OK, what's the problem...Nothing I guess, but after 3 times it finally rubbed me the wrong way..

Larry Winters said:

This may indeed be the practice of many others but after ordering HUNDREDS of items, including cameras, I've NEVER received a previously used product or camera from Amazon...I don't know where all the returned products go exactly, but they sure haven't come to me initially or through a replacement order...

lw

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Correct. Note also that B&H have this ABSURD maximum 200 shots policy for their returns. Not as bad as their ILLEGAL selling of used merchandise as new, but unacceptable nonetheless. I'm a (former) B&H customer and I'm amazed that the local AG hasn't sued the pants off them yet... they must be paying some serious money under the table.

It may very well be that that the ZS3s are gaining status in light of the unenthusiastic reception or worse of the ZS7. Then again, it may be that the prices were artificially low or had to be dropped temporarily only because everyone was waiting for the ZS7 and nothing was moving. Now, they are being raised to make the new model look like a bargain -- and now that they have an ample supply of ZS7s they can and have to move.

I expect that even the more rigorous reviews are going to be positive enough (see e.g., cameralabs.com comparing it to another new release with the new features), and that the majority of reviewers who have never seen a camera they didn't like will praise "even more pixels, plus gps -and at a bargain price compared to its excellent predecessor": that will be enough for most consumers to eat up the new camera.

I'm just relieved that the ZS7 is not going to tempt me to go for the latest, even if it is for 10% less than what I paid for my bluebeauty only 8 months and 18 days ago.

JeremiahGreenspoon said:

WAHEY! FAR OUT! I'm glad I got in at $220 (for a sweeeet blue one)

I win

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Yes! And IMUsuallyHO, the new blue does not compare to our "old" blue.