"Feel" of a DSLR system?

Got a quick couple of questions: I'm an amateur but interested in buying my first DSLR and a couple of starter lenses. On advice from various websites I always stop by the camera section of whatever store I'm in and hold the various cameras" - when the time comes that I've got the budget for it, I'll just pick whatever is most comfortable in my hand, assuming that the major systems are all (reasonably) comparable in features.

In all my experiences so far of hefting beginner cameras, the Canon feels the most natural. It's got the biggest grip and fits pretty well into my hand, but the others always seem like my bottom fingers are falling off or there's some kind of weird plastic grip part poking into my palm. Or the Nikon where I seem to have to shoot with my middle finger. That seems weird to me though because I don't have huge hands or anything, so I'm wondering who would choose one of the other cameras if they all feel so uncomfortable?

So my two questions:

1) Am I holding these cameras right? Maybe if I knew what I was doing I'd find an even better fit.

2) Does the "feel" of a DSLR stay pretty consistent throughout the series? Like, if I bought a 450D and later upgraded to a 70D when it comes out, will it still feel the same except heavier?

Hornpipe2 said:

Got a quick couple of questions: I'm an amateur but interested in buying my first DSLR and a couple of starter lenses. On advice from various websites I always stop by the camera section of whatever store I'm in and hold the various cameras" - when the time comes that I've got the budget for it, I'll just pick whatever is most comfortable in my hand, assuming that the major systems are all (reasonably) comparable in features.

In all my experiences so far of hefting beginner cameras, the Canon feels the most natural. It's got the biggest grip and fits pretty well into my hand, but the others always seem like my bottom fingers are falling off or there's some kind of weird plastic grip part poking into my palm. Or the Nikon where I seem to have to shoot with my middle finger. That seems weird to me though because I don't have huge hands or anything, so I'm wondering who would choose one of the other cameras if they all feel so uncomfortable?

So my two questions:

1) Am I holding these cameras right? Maybe if I knew what I was doing I'd find an even better fit.

2) Does the "feel" of a DSLR stay pretty consistent throughout the series? Like, if I bought a 450D and later upgraded to a 70D when it comes out, will it still feel the same except heavier?

Click to expand...

The Grip!

Holding an SLR (Film or digital) by one hand is "An affectation" seen all the time.

The Grip is there to give you a place to put your fingers comfortably at rest. (leaving them free to roam the body for switches, settings ect)

Most of the time you should be supporting the weight of the lens/camera with your Left hand, under the lens.

There are times, with small, short lenses that you must hold the weight with your left hand, but, for the most part, you should be supporting the package/weight with the hand under the lens.

This makes "moot" the question about "The Grip".

Some will not agree with me, but since the days of film bodies which had NO GRIP unless you added a mechanical film winder which would have the shape of what is now almost universally and incorrectly called a grip, even by the manufacturers, who should know better.

If you carried one of those old film cameras by the "Grip" it might separate from the body, and the body would crash to the ground, as they were not permanently attached.

It is the emulation of this shape (an SLR with a film winder) which gives us the "hump" everyone calls a grip.

I've rambled on here a bit and gone OT, but the point is... if you hold the camera "Old School" there wont be a "Grip Problem" even with a camera shaped like a brick.

--
Larry In Mystic Connecticut, USA
Equine Event shooter
Sometimes Wildlife shooter
Sometimes 'Street' Shooter

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory..

Unless otherwise stated ALL images posted by me are copyright:
(c) Lasting Imagery
(c) Larry The Camera Guy
(c) Equinepix
if you use them in any way without my permission I will NOT be a 'Happy Camper'.

http://vesnakozelj.com/photography/fundamentals/supporting-the-camera-holding-with-your-hands

--
All in my humble opionion of course!

If I seem to talk nonsense or you can't understand me, it's probably my English

Hornpipe2 said:

2) Does the "feel" of a DSLR stay pretty consistent throughout the series? Like, if I bought a 450D and later upgraded to a 70D when it comes out, will it still feel the same except heavier?

Click to expand...

Moving from the entry level models to mid level models often means a completely different body and layout. If you are in a store one day try out a Canon Rebel then try a 50D or 7D to feel the difference (or a Nikon D3000 vs a D90 or even D300). There are noticable differences in feel. The entry level cameras are usually smaller, lighter and with fewer buttons/wheels or other controls.

Thanks guys, this puts a new spin on things. I may have to hit up a camera shop so I can try them out with attached lenses and all. Just picking up the body at Wal-Mart (complete with attached security system) probably isn't giving an accurate representation.

In any case these seem like techniques I can apply on my current camera as well!

Adrian that's a great link. That's the way to properly hold a camera. I see so many holding in such unsteady manners, it's not wonder people have to have stabilization. Tuck the elbows in as well.



--
Cheers, Craig

Equipment in Plan via Profile

AdriaanMeijer said:

http://vesnakozelj.com/photography/fundamentals/supporting-the-camera-holding-with-your-hands

--
All in my humble opionion of course!

If I seem to talk nonsense or you can't understand me, it's probably my English

Click to expand...

Great info here for nobees and maybe some older folk who got lazy ;-)

Elbows hogging the body and legs spaced apart is the way to go as general guide.
--



http://www.pbase.com/peterarbib/root
PPG http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/peterarbib
http://101photography.wordpress.com/
Gear in my Profile Plan
Peter Arbib

Udaman - you do realize your profile picture is holding the camera in a position that the link says is not acceptable :O

Actually, I think there is some very good points in the article - mainly with respect to elbows and feet positioning. I don't particularly agree with the portrait holding position suggested in that article. But just because I don't agree doesn't make it wrong i guess.

udaman said:

AdriaanMeijer said:

http://vesnakozelj.com/photography/fundamentals/supporting-the-camera-holding-with-your-hands

--
All in my humble opionion of course!

If I seem to talk nonsense or you can't understand me, it's probably my English

Click to expand...

Great info here for nobees and maybe some older folk who got lazy ;-)

Elbows hogging the body and legs spaced apart is the way to go as general guide.
--



http://www.pbase.com/peterarbib/root
PPG http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/peterarbib
http://101photography.wordpress.com/
Gear in my Profile Plan
Peter Arbib

Click to expand...

AdriaanMeijer said:

http://vesnakozelj.com/photography/fundamentals/supporting-the-camera-holding-with-your-hands

Click to expand...

I disagree with some of those positions as it's more comfortable for me doing it "wrong"...even so I still manage handholding for 2.5 seconds at 28mm, and 1000mm at 1/50th with no IS .

If I wasn't comfortable (in other words holding the camera "right") I wouldn't be able to achieve such shots because I'd be straining to hold the position.

Some of the wrong positions I use, I use my thumb to support the bottom of the lens because I can't turn my wrist around to hold it the way they say:

http://vesnakozelj.com/wp-content/uploads/image/holding_camera_standing_horizontal_wrong2.gif

Portrait orientation:

http://vesnakozelj.com/wp-content/uploads/image/holding_camera_standing_vertical.gif

If I'm using a pancake lens on my camera:

http://vesnakozelj.com/wp-content/uploads/image/holding_camera_standing_horizontal_wrong.gif

Now I've been shooting for more than 30 years, and I've had more keepers doing it the "wrong" than fighting to hold the camera the "right" way...and with practice I've blown away the 1/focal length rule for shutter speed holding the camera the "wrong" way.

I have read many times where it has been suggested to a first time SLR buyer
see which one feels best in your hand .
What a lot of Bull , they are bloody cameras how uncomfortable can it be

I have held my fair share of SLR and DSLR's , I have never found one that really makes any difference

I had a look at the " How to hold a camera " link
Who stands with their feet planted firmly together anyway

One hand yeah I do that when the other is stopping me from falling down a Cliff or Mine Shaft
The Vertical orientation , I don't agree with that
What ever works , thats what ya should do

I found the difference in feel between the Nikon D5000 and D90 to be huge. The D90 feels solid and secure with a good feel and texture. The D5000 felt small, plasticky and didn't fit into my hand the way the D90 does. I didn't get to try a D3000, but it's a tiny bit smaller than the D5000 so I would think it has a similar feel.

With Canon, I think all the Rebels are the same shape and size, then comes the 50D, which is actually bigger than a Nikon D90. That's a pretty big jump in size.

So if you're shopping for Nikon then you should try the camera. However, features are important was well, and I would have bought a D90 even if the D5000 felt better in my hand. So there's lots to consider.

This is how the staff of DPR holds their Nikon D5000 cameras...

Graystar said:

This is how the staff of DPR holds their Nikon D5000 cameras...

Click to expand...

I thought those "in your hand" photos were intended only to show relative camera & grip sizes, not endorsements to any holding technique?

Also, if you consider that the photos just omit the left hand (and the photographer's head!) for clarity, there is nothing wrong with the way the right hand is holding the camera.

--
Best regards,

Bruno Lobo.



http://www.pbase.com/brunobl

Brunobl said:

Graystar said:

This is how the staff of DPR holds their Nikon D5000 cameras...

Click to expand...

I thought those "in your hand" photos were intended only to show relative camera & grip sizes, not endorsements to any holding technique?

Click to expand...

I was just addressing the OP's comment on how he feels he has to "shoot" with his middle finger on a Nikon camera. I don't really see how one could manage that.

.

Graystar,

Graystar said:

Graystar said:

I thought those "in your hand" photos were intended only to show relative camera & grip sizes, not endorsements to any holding technique?

Click to expand...

I was just addressing the OP's comment on how he feels he has to "shoot" with his middle finger on a Nikon camera. I don't really see how one could manage that.

Click to expand...

Seem like I took your reply the wrong way.
Sorry about that.

--
Best regards,

Bruno Lobo.



http://www.pbase.com/brunobl

Larry Lynch said:

Hornpipe2 said:

Got a quick couple of questions: I'm an amateur but interested in buying my first DSLR and a couple of starter lenses. On advice from various websites I always stop by the camera section of whatever store I'm in and hold the various cameras" - when the time comes that I've got the budget for it, I'll just pick whatever is most comfortable in my hand, assuming that the major systems are all (reasonably) comparable in features.

In all my experiences so far of hefting beginner cameras, the Canon feels the most natural. It's got the biggest grip and fits pretty well into my hand, but the others always seem like my bottom fingers are falling off or there's some kind of weird plastic grip part poking into my palm. Or the Nikon where I seem to have to shoot with my middle finger. That seems weird to me though because I don't have huge hands or anything, so I'm wondering who would choose one of the other cameras if they all feel so uncomfortable?

So my two questions:

1) Am I holding these cameras right? Maybe if I knew what I was doing I'd find an even better fit.

2) Does the "feel" of a DSLR stay pretty consistent throughout the series? Like, if I bought a 450D and later upgraded to a 70D when it comes out, will it still feel the same except heavier?

Click to expand...

The Grip!

Holding an SLR (Film or digital) by one hand is "An affectation" seen all the time.

The Grip is there to give you a place to put your fingers comfortably at rest. (leaving them free to roam the body for switches, settings ect)

Most of the time you should be supporting the weight of the lens/camera with your Left hand, under the lens.

There are times, with small, short lenses that you must hold the weight with your left hand, but, for the most part, you should be supporting the package/weight with the hand under the lens.

This makes "moot" the question about "The Grip".

Some will not agree with me, but since the days of film bodies which had NO GRIP unless you added a mechanical film winder which would have the shape of what is now almost universally and incorrectly called a grip, even by the manufacturers, who should know better.

If you carried one of those old film cameras by the "Grip" it might separate from the body, and the body would crash to the ground, as they were not permanently attached.

It is the emulation of this shape (an SLR with a film winder) which gives us the "hump" everyone calls a grip.

I've rambled on here a bit and gone OT, but the point is... if you hold the camera "Old School" there wont be a "Grip Problem" even with a camera shaped like a brick.

Click to expand...

Three points...

I think the "Grip" was added to electronic cameras to make a place for the battery, not to emulate a power-winder.

My old Nikon F power-winder (which Nikon called a Motor Drive) is firmly attached to the body and won't fall off.

I often use my D300 with a flash off the camera...I hold the flash with my left hand...that means I have to hold the camera with my right hand. If I'm using a relatively small lens, I can manage with the rather large "Grip" on the D300. When I use my 70-200mm f/2.8, I simply can't support that much mass with my right hand for more than a few seconds! In these instances, I use a monopod attached to the foot on the lens.

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D50, Nikon D300
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
“We have always known that heedless self-interest was
bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics.”
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Mike_PEAT said:

AdriaanMeijer said:

http://vesnakozelj.com/photography/fundamentals/supporting-the-camera-holding-with-your-hands

Click to expand...

I disagree with some of those positions as it's more comfortable for me doing it "wrong"...even so I still manage handholding for 2.5 seconds at 28mm, and 1000mm at 1/50th with no IS .

If I wasn't comfortable (in other words holding the camera "right") I wouldn't be able to achieve such shots because I'd be straining to hold the position.

Some of the wrong positions I use, I use my thumb to support the bottom of the lens because I can't turn my wrist around to hold it the way they say:

http://vesnakozelj.com/wp-content/uploads/image/holding_camera_standing_horizontal_wrong2.gif

Portrait orientation:

http://vesnakozelj.com/wp-content/uploads/image/holding_camera_standing_vertical.gif

If I'm using a pancake lens on my camera:

http://vesnakozelj.com/wp-content/uploads/image/holding_camera_standing_horizontal_wrong.gif

Now I've been shooting for more than 30 years, and I've had more keepers doing it the "wrong" than fighting to hold the camera the "right" way...and with practice I've blown away the 1/focal length rule for shutter speed holding the camera the "wrong" way.

Click to expand...

Mike.. there is no WRONG WAY.. there is only whats comfortable for most people, and what isnt comfortable for most people.

The fact that you have been successful using a method that makes my wrist hurt, has nothing to do with right and wrong.

I simply recommend beginners try new cameras with shallow humps, or no humps at all, using the "old school" method of supporting the camera under the lens.

Whats "right for you" is "right for you".

For a guy who hasnt much experience using a DSLR, recommending the "old school" grip FIRST just comes under the heading of "trying to be helpfull".

--
Larry In Mystic Connecticut, USA
Equine Event shooter
Sometimes Wildlife shooter
Sometimes 'Street' Shooter

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory..

Unless otherwise stated ALL images posted by me are copyright:
(c) Lasting Imagery
(c) Larry The Camera Guy
(c) Equinepix
if you use them in any way without my permission I will NOT be a 'Happy Camper'.

chuxter said:

Three points...

I think the "Grip" was added to electronic cameras to make a place for the battery, not to emulate a power-winder.

Click to expand...

This could well be the case in most cameras.. I hadnt thought of it.

chuxter said:

My old Nikon F power-winder (which Nikon called a Motor Drive) is firmly attached to the body and won't fall off.

Click to expand...

Good thing it was properly attached.. I have never lost a camera that way, but have seen it happen near me, more than once (not the same guy).

chuxter said:

I often use my D300 with a flash off the camera...I hold the flash with my left hand...that means I have to hold the camera with my right hand. If I'm using a relatively small lens, I can manage with the rather large "Grip" on the D300. When I use my 70-200mm f/2.8, I simply can't support that much mass with my right hand for more than a few seconds! In these instances, I use a monopod attached to the foot on the lens.

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D50, Nikon D300
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
“We have always known that heedless self-interest was
bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics.”
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Click to expand...

There are always times and place/circumstances where we need to "adapt".

I only know that holding the cameras weight "buy the grip" makes my wrist hurt after an extended time, because I have done it, many times, because I had too. When not forced to do it that way, I revert to the "old school" method, which if Im taking photos all day long, is much more comfortable for me.

--
Larry In Mystic Connecticut, USA
Equine Event shooter
Sometimes Wildlife shooter
Sometimes 'Street' Shooter

A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory..

Unless otherwise stated ALL images posted by me are copyright:
(c) Lasting Imagery
(c) Larry The Camera Guy
(c) Equinepix
if you use them in any way without my permission I will NOT be a 'Happy Camper'.

All of the techniques you are hearing are the "right way" if you need to hold the camera absolutely steady and securely.

And while the later is always necessary the former really "depends."

If you are shooting with a very fast shutter speed, or if your camera or lens has image stabilization then the best possible stability isn't always necessary. Let me clarify this, before I get pummelled..... shooting snapshots at 1/1000th of a second really doesn't require rock solid stability. However, it never hurts to hold your camera as steady as possible, and it's a good habit to develop. So it really is best to use those techniques.

But the larger point of your question is about the "feel" of your camera. And they all do really feel different, and the ergonomics of one might appeal more to some individuals than others. So you really have to handle them all, then select the one that "feels best" to you. What feels best to me might be something totally different. There is no right answer to this, since we all have different sized hands.

As far as predicting how the next Canon will feel..... remember this. DSLRs pretty much come in three body sizes..... small, medium, and large. If you like the feel of the Canon 400D, then you will probably like the Canon 450D, 500D and 550D too, since they are all build around the same type of chassis.

A Canon 60D, on the other hand, will be more similar to an intermediate sized body like the 40D or 50D. And you can bet that the 1DS4 will feel very much like the large body 1DS3.

There really is no substitute for handling the cameras yourself. If you ask other people, you will just hear what they prefer, and that might not be the best choice for you.

Everyone has different personal preferences. Personally, I like the ergonomics of the Nikons and Olympus cameras, and I think the Sony cameras feel odd. But someone else might feel the exact opposite way.

But here's the interesting thing. Once you get used to ANY camera, then you start to like it, and you want your next camera to feel just like it, and have the same button layout and placement.

--
Marty
http://www.flickr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132/show/
http://www.fluidr.com/photos/marty4650/sets/72157606210120132
Olympus E-30
Zuiko 9-18mm
Zuiko 14-54mm II
Zuiko 40-150mm I
Zuiko 70-300mm
Zuiko 50mm f/2.0 macro

Larry Lynch said:

Good thing it was properly attached.. I have never lost a camera that way, but have seen it happen near me, more than once (not the same guy).

Click to expand...

With the old Nikon F system, the entire back came off (to install film), thus when they developed the Motor Drive, it was a big monster that replaced the back and had an extension in front (to put the operating switch where it was useful), but it was not a "grip". The Motor Drive was attached to the body the same way that the normal back was...via a cam lock. Once attached, it didn't fall off. I don't know about lesser camera systems...

--
Charlie Davis
Nikon 5700, Sony R1, Nikon D50, Nikon D300
HomePage: http://www.1derful.info
“We have always known that heedless self-interest was
bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics.”
Franklin D. Roosevelt

Larry Lynch said:

I've rambled on here a bit and gone OT, but the point is... if you hold the camera "Old School" there wont be a "Grip Problem" even with a camera shaped like a brick.

Click to expand...

my pinky falls off the bottom of my camera. and i don't have a small camera. having the grip there -- and i assure you that i have proper hand holding technique as in the diagram -- allows me to anchor and stabilize the camera much more effectively with my right hand, because i can use my whole hand.

it also allows me to hold the camera in the same, more stable position while in the vertical position. i am not a fan of the hand-on-top position. in the standard position, i can lock my wrist. on top, i cannot.

it also balances my camera better, weight-wise, with just about every lens. i do not see a downside here.

you also should be aware that you can find cameras from the "film days" with such a grip. not just the winder/battery attachment (as in the FA), but a molded grip. the F4 has an attachment, and the F5 has it build it.