It's fast, it's silent, it's sharp - my new Sigma 17-70mm, 1:2.8-4.0 with OS

You have very nice companion! But the shot is made not with Sigma 17-70, I believe. This is 135mm focal length shot according to your description. Could you share any Sigma 17-70mm HSM OS shot at 50-70mm and F16-32? My point is: these settings are quite useful for Macro like shots. According to lenstip.com

http://lenstip.com/223.4-Lens_review-Sigma_17-70_mm_f_2.8-4.0_DC_MacrS_HSM_Image_resolution.html

the lens is much softer at these settings, gaining back sharpness at F5.6-F8. I'm wondering how it's noticeable in real life on K-x.
Thank you in advance
SG

Srry, my bad, that shot was done with the pentax 55-300.

The one below is with sig.

Regards, Rob.

Nice dog! I wouldn't say that it's really sharp, but it's taken at 1/30 and ISO1600. Wow.

All the makers notes have been striped from the exif data. Could you post the set of files with the EXIF intact please?

Thank you
Russell

--
http://waorak.tripod.com/

Sigma lens handicap Pentax dSLR SR systems for sure IMO. I just now did a test with my K20D and Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 at your same speed of 1/6 second and with/without SR, 90% of the shots were blurry even with SR. Now I know that Sigma does not report the correct focal length to Pentax dSLRs they just report an infinity FL, in this case 70mm, but at 70mm up close the Sigma is (tested by AmaturePhotographer) really around 64mm. Now 6mm is a big difference for the SR system as it will not be compensating correct either too much or not enough.

I had an idea take my DA55-300mm and set it at 70mm and the same 1/6 speed and test. To my surprise about 60%-70% of the shots were now tack sharp ( and DA55-300mm) compared to 10% with SR and the Sigma 17-70mm. People test it for yourself.

I am focused on the canned air.

Without SR





With SR





--
jamesm007,
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z77/jamesm700/
WSSA member 266PX

Russell Evans said:

All the makers notes have been striped from the exif data. Could you post the set of files with the EXIF intact please?

Click to expand...

Which photos are you talking about?

--
J. D.
Colorado

If you repeat the comparison test, but with much SLOWER SHUTTER-SPEED like 1/6 - 1/25s. Maybe we will see much more difference than we're seeing now at 1/60s.

MusicDoctorDJ said:

I did this test a couple of weeks ago using this combo (this is the actual camera-lens I used).



All shots taken handheld at 200mm (400mm at 35mm equiv.), f:5.6, 1/60 sec, ISO 1600:

First shot with in-body IS only:

Click to expand...

MusicDoctorDJ said:

Which photos are you talking about?

Click to expand...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=34848069

--
http://waorak.tripod.com/

MusicDoctorDJ said:

• Pentax IS . . .

Click to expand...

Pentax will differ here from your Oly. Pentax body (unlike Oly one) knows nothing about in-lens IS, thus I will not be surprised if result will even worse when both systems get activated than with any of stabilization on its own.

MusicDoctorDJ said:

And, if I may add, I have never been all that happy with the IS in my K10D, so I have been shooting with it off lately and have noticed much sharper images.

Click to expand...

I did test it and my subjective tests shows to me that it works. Although IMHO effect is rather subtle and IMHO IS effectiveness greatly exaggerated in this forum.

MusicDoctorDJ said:

I personally think that the K10D's IS has been adding blur to my images . . . not taking it away.

Click to expand...

Funny enough I have similar paranoia and thus never keep IS on unless I need it, though my observation not supporting above-mentioned paranoia. I do trust that Pentax engineers did everything for IS work in best possible way and I do trust that they did everything for it not interfere when switched off. But still I could not help myself from paranoia that because of IS sensor may have movement that could lead to slight image deterioration. I know, I know. And I do not have any observation to support such believing, but considering limited usage of IS I would rater have body without it.

Just personal observation

jamesm007 said:

Sigma lens handicap Pentax dSLR SR systems for sure IMO. I just now did a test with my K20D and Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 at your same speed of 1/6 second and with/without SR, 90% of the shots were blurry even with SR. Now I know that Sigma does not report the correct focal length to Pentax dSLRs they just report an infinity FL, in this case 70mm, but at 70mm up close the Sigma is (tested by AmaturePhotographer) really around 64mm. Now 6mm is a big difference for the SR system as it will not be compensating correct either too much or not enough.

I had an idea take my DA55-300mm and set it at 70mm and the same 1/6 speed and test. To my surprise about 60%-70% of the shots were now tack sharp ( and DA55-300mm) compared to 10% with SR and the Sigma 17-70mm. People test it for yourself.

I am focused on the canned air.

Without SR





With SR





--
jamesm007,
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z77/jamesm700/
WSSA member 266PX

Click to expand...

If this is true, do you think that Tamron lenses would also handicap the Pentax SR? I was planning on buying the 17-50mm f2.8, but if it is not going to work with the shake reduction then I may have to go for the Sigma 17-70mm that has the in-lens stabilization.

007peter said:

If you repeat the comparison test, but with much SLOWER SHUTTER-SPEED like 1/6 - 1/25s. Maybe we will see much more difference than we're seeing now at 1/60s.

Click to expand...

Oh, I don't think so.

Going to a slower shutter speed isn't going to show any more than what it does now.

Considering this camera has no viewfinder, so had to be held at arms length in front of me, and at 400mm equivalent, I'd say 1/60 sec is a slow enough shutter speed to show the different IS's in operation.

With my K10D with IS on and Tamron 70-300 zoomed out all the way (450mm equivalent) shot at eye level through viewfinder (ie.- using body to steady camera), I can't get anywhere near as sharp of an image at 1/250 sec, and I'm a pretty steady shooter!

Heck, even on a monopod the K10D's IS isn't as good at 1/250 sec.

--
J. D.
Colorado

Here it is:

photo with no image stabilisation at all :

Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K10D
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - K10D Ver 1.30
DateTime - 2010:03:20 15:28:57
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 598
ExposureTime - 1/6 seconds
FNumber - 5.60
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2010:03:20 15:28:57
DateTimeDigitized - 2010:03:20 15:28:57
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Spot
Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 70.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3872
ExifImageHeight - 2592
InteroperabilityOffset - 46036
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - Other
SceneType - Other
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
White Balance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 105 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Distant view

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Mode - Auto
Quality - Best
ISO - 200
White Balance - Auto
Lens Type -

Thumbnail: -
Compression - 6 (JPG)
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
JpegIFOffset - 46160
JpegIFByteCount - 6343

2nd: photo with Pentax SR image stabilisation :
Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K10D
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - K10D Ver 1.30
DateTime - 2010:03:20 15:28:31
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 598
ExposureTime - 1/6 seconds
FNumber - 5.60
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2010:03:20 15:28:31
DateTimeDigitized - 2010:03:20 15:28:31
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Spot
Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 70.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3872
ExifImageHeight - 2592
InteroperabilityOffset - 46036
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - Other
SceneType - Other
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
White Balance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 105 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Distant view

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Mode - Auto
Quality - Best
ISO - 200
White Balance - Auto
Lens Type -

Thumbnail: -
Compression - 6 (JPG)
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
JpegIFOffset - 46160
JpegIFByteCount - 6401

3rd phot with Sigma -lens - image stabilisation :
Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K10D
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - K10D Ver 1.30
DateTime - 2010:03:20 15:27:45
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 598
ExposureTime - 1/6 seconds
FNumber - 5.60
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2010:03:20 15:27:45
DateTimeDigitized - 2010:03:20 15:27:45
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Spot
Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 70.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3872
ExifImageHeight - 2592
InteroperabilityOffset - 46036
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - Other
SceneType - Other
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
White Balance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 105 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Distant view

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Mode - Auto
Quality - Best
ISO - 200
White Balance - Auto
Lens Type -

Thumbnail: -
Compression - 6 (JPG)
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
JpegIFOffset - 46160
JpegIFByteCount - 6432

and last photo - with both image stabilisation system switchen "On" (camera and lens IS) :
Make - PENTAX Corporation
Model - PENTAX K10D
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - K10D Ver 1.30
DateTime - 2010:03:20 15:29:30
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
ExifOffset - 598
ExposureTime - 1/6 seconds
FNumber - 5.60
ExposureProgram - Manual control
ISOSpeedRatings - 200
ExifVersion - 0221
DateTimeOriginal - 2010:03:20 15:29:30
DateTimeDigitized - 2010:03:20 15:29:30
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MeteringMode - Spot
Flash - Flash not fired, compulsory flash mode
FocalLength - 70.00 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 3872
ExifImageHeight - 2592
InteroperabilityOffset - 46036
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - Other
SceneType - Other
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Manual
White Balance - Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFilm - 105 mm
SceneCaptureType - Standard
Contrast - Hard
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Hard
SubjectDistanceRange - Distant view

Maker Note (Vendor): -
Mode - Auto
Quality - Best
ISO - 200
White Balance - Auto
Lens Type -

Thumbnail: -
Compression - 6 (JPG)
XResolution - 72
YResolution - 72
ResolutionUnit - Inch
JpegIFOffset - 46160
JpegIFByteCount - 6400

Hope this helps.

Best regards
Holger

I have the same lenses as you have. Pentax 55-300, which I enjoy very much - and my new Sigma 17-70 (we are talking about it here) seems to be also a very good lens.

Best regards
Holger

Hi Holger,

I also like 'm both, i have no regrets of my choice in these two lenses sofar.

I haven't taken much photo's at this time, but the one's i took were to my liking.

Regards, Rob.

Very nice example photo! My father shoots with this lens and has for several years and just loves it. (Paulf6) Cindy
--
My PPG-- http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/cynthiafarr-weinfeld
http://www.cindysphotoquest.blogspot.com
My photo sites: http://www.cfwphotography.com
and
http://www.cfwphotography.smugmug.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cfwphotography/

Holger Bargen said:

Hope this helps.

Click to expand...

Thanks, but no it didn't. I'm looking for the SR, AF, battery, ... specific tags in the makers notes.

Thank you
Russell

--
http://waorak.tripod.com/

Hi Russell,

I copied the information out of the EXIF information I could see in the IrfanView programm. Should there be more information available? Is there any programm out there that shows more information? I thought that IrfanView was giving me all that was available but maybe this is not true.

Best regards
Holger

GiggliG said:

If this is true, do you think that Tamron lenses would also handicap the Pentax SR? I was planning on buying the 17-50mm f2.8, but if it is not going to work with the shake reduction then I may have to go for the Sigma 17-70mm that has the in-lens stabilization.

Click to expand...

Some more interesting observations. Using Photome the DA55-300mm reports 81mm in the SR (Shake Reduction) section as its SR FL, the normal FL that we see is 70mm, but the SR systems needs the true focal lenght that is not linear as the barrel markings would have you think on zoom lens. FL varies a lot by the design mostly and distance to subject. In this case close up the Pentax DA55-300mm was at 70mm (marked) but the SR system was told 81mm (the real FL) an 11mm difference a huge difference and probably why the DA55-300mm at 70mm is able to take a good percentage of sharp pics using SR at close distance compared to the Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5, which will only reported 70mm and not the real focal length (of about 64mm) to the SR system.

Indeed Roland M brought up a very valid and interesting phenomena with Sigma lens. Now most lens at infinity outside are close to their stated focal length so you won't loss much SR performance. But in tests like this at 2m its making a difference as the focal length is way off from the indicated focal length marked on the lens, and only the Pentax lens and not the Sigma reported the proper FL to the K20D.

Sigma did go cheap on their electronics. They are the only ones that can't be differentiated by the K20D fine tuning system. The Sigma 17-70mm is seen the same as my Sigma 10-20mm. When I use either lens I have to check the AF fine tuning to make sure its set right. The system will keep separate track of Pentax lens.

Now as to your question. Tamron reports the proper FL AFAIK and that I can see testing my own Tamron 70-300mm DI (using old pics). This lens varied its reported number to the SR system unlike the Sigma 70-300mm APO (which I also owned). You know I did notice I could hand hold my Tamron lens at speeds lower than the Sigma (no kidding) and this could explain why. Go ahead Tamron is safe, its only Sigma that does not report the proper focal length.

Its not a damming thing and it does not make the system useless for Sigma lens, Sigma just doesn't sometimes depending on the lens and distance get the full potential of SR performance from Pentax dSLR bodies. For example the Sigma 17-70mm (old) at 17mm only varies + - 0.7MM at any distance from macro to infinity (thats very tight); at 17mm your getting full Pentax SR performance all the time . Now at 70mm the Sigma is at 69.2mm from 50m to infinity, at distance less than 7.5mm its 65.3mm and probably lower and I will just guess 64mm at 2m. So as I could see for myself at the very edge of SR performance you loss a bit.

Now that being said I have never noticed blurry or soft pics from my Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4.5 its one of my best lens and always gets the shot. We are only talking about the very edge of SR performance where most of the time you won't be at.

All the above is IMO I would ask that others test as I did with a Sigma and Pentax and see what results you get at the edge of handholding performance.

--
jamesm007,
http://s195.photobucket.com/albums/z77/jamesm700/
WSSA member 266PX

Would you please share you thoughts why are you choosing Tamron 17-50 over Sigma 17-70 HSM OS? I prefer the Tamron myself, but extra tele and some Macro ability in one lens is very tempting. From another hand according to lenstip.com Sigma is soft at 50-70mm. Such a dilemma!

Holger Bargen said:

Is there any programm out there that shows more information?

Click to expand...

http://freeweb.siol.net/hrastni3/foto/exif/exiftoolgui.htm

This is what I get using exiftoolgui to save the maker notes to a text file

----EXIF----
ImageWidth:4864
ImageHeight:3136
BitsPerSample:12
CompressionentaxPEFCompressed
PhotometricInterpretation:ColorFilterArray
MakeENTAX
ModelENTAXK20D
StripOffsets:111068
Orientation:Rotate270CW
SamplesPerPixel:1
RowsPerStrip:3136
StripByteCounts:14189776
XResolution:72
YResolution:72
PlanarConfiguration:Chunky
ResolutionUnit:inches
Software:K20DVer1.03
ModifyDate:2010:02:0708:56:36
ExposureTime:1/350
FNumber:4.5
ExposureProgram:Aperture-priorityAE
ISO:200
DateTimeOriginal:2010:02:0708:56:36
CreateDate:2010:02:0708:56:36
ExposureCompensation:0
MeteringMode:Multi-segment
Flash:Off,Didnotfire
FocalLength:24.0mm
SensingMethod:One-chipcolorarea
CFAPattern:[Blue,Green][Green,Red]
CustomRendered:Normal
ExposureMode:Auto
WhiteBalance:Auto
FocalLengthIn35mmFormat:36mm
SceneCaptureType:Standard
Contrast:Normal
Saturation:Normal
Sharpness:Soft
SubjectDistanceRangeistant
ImageWidth:160
ImageHeight:120
Compression:JPEG(old-style)
XResolution:72
YResolution:72
ResolutionUnit:inches
ThumbnailOffset:103328
ThumbnailLength:7737
ImageWidth:4672
ImageHeight:3104
Compression:JPEG(old-style)
XResolution:72
YResolution:72
ResolutionUnit:inches
JpgFromRawStart:14300844
JpgFromRawLength:1268515
----MakerNotes----
PentaxVersion:4.3.0.0
PentaxModelType:0
PreviewImageSize:640x480
PreviewImageLength:27165
PreviewImageStart:25032
PentaxModelID:K20D
Date:2010:02:07
Time:08:56:36
Quality:RAW
FlashMode:Off,Didnotfire;Internal
FocusMode:AF-S
AFPointSelected:Center
ExposureTime:1/351
FNumber:4.5
ISO:200
ExposureCompensation:0
MeteringMode:Multi-segment
AutoBracketing:0EV,NoExtendedBracket
WhiteBalance:Auto
WhiteBalanceMode:Auto(Daylight)
FocalLength:24.0mm
Saturation:Normal
Contrast:Normal
Sharpness:MedSoft
WorldTimeLocation:Hometown
HometownCity:NewYork
DestinationCity:NewYork
HometownDST:Yes
DestinationDST:Yes
DSPFirmwareVersion:1.03.00.10
CPUFirmwareVersion:1.03.00.10
EffectiveLV:12.1
PictureMode:AperturePriority;1/2EVsteps
DriveMode:Single-frame;NoTimer;ShutterButton;SingleExposure
ColorSpace:sRGB
ImageAreaOffset:88
RawImageSize:4672x3104
PreviewImageBorders:282800
LensType:Sigma
CameraTemperature:22C
AELock:On
NoiseReduction:Off
FlashExposureComp:0
ImageTone:Natural
SRResult:Stabilized
ShakeReduction:On(15)
SRHalfPressTime:2.55s
SRFocalLength:24mm
ShutterCount:16046
DynamicRangeExpansion:Off
HighISONoiseReduction:Off
AFAdjustment:0
BlackPoint:0000
WhitePoint:133768192819210432
PictureMode2:AperturePriority
ProgramLine:Normal
EVSteps:1/2EVsteps
E-DialInProgram:TvorAv
ApertureRingUseermitted
FlashOptions:Normal
MeteringMode2:Multi-segment
AFPointMode:Select
FocusMode2:AF-S
AFPointSelected2:Center
ISOFloor:200
DriveMode2:Single-frame
ExposureBracketStepSize:0.5
BracketShotNumber:n/a
WhiteBalanceSet:Auto
MultipleExposureSet:Off
AEExposureTime:1/372
AEAperture:4.8
AE_ISO:200
AEXv:0
AEBXv:0
AEMinExposureTime:1/3862
AEProgramMode:Av,BorX
AEMaxAperture:2.8
AEMaxAperture2:3.4
AEMinAperture:23
AEMeteringMode:Multi-segment
FlashExposureCompSet:0
LensType:Sigma
AutoAperture:On
MinAperture:22
LensFStops:6
FocalLength:23.8mm
NominalMaxAperture:2.8
NominalMinAperture:23
MaxAperture:2.9
FlashStatus:Off
InternalFlashMode:Off,Normal
ExternalFlashMode:Off
InternalFlashStrength:47
TTL_DA_AUp:0
TTL_DA_ADown:0
TTL_DA_BUp:0
TTL_DA_BDown:0
ExternalFlashGuideNumber:n/a
ExternalFlashExposureComp:n/a
ExternalFlashBounceirect

AEMeteringSegments:11.311.111.510.911.811.611.411.011.911.410.410.410.510.411.910.5
FlashMeteringSegments:0000000000000000
SlaveFlashMeteringSegments:0000000000000000
WB_RGGBLevelsDaylight:133898192819210523
WB_RGGBLevelsShade:15269819281928007
WB_RGGBLevelsCloudy:14195819281929303
WB_RGGBLevelsTungsten:85918192819219522
WB_RGGBLevelsFluorescentD:17718819281929913
WB_RGGBLevelsFluorescentN:150348192819211286
WB_RGGBLevelsFluorescentW:140278192819214031
WB_RGGBLevelsFlash:14195819281929913
PentaxModelID:K20D
ManufactureDate:2008:04:26
ProductionCode:2.4
InternalSerialNumber:
PowerSource:BodyBattery
BatteryStates:41
BatteryADBodyNoLoad:181
BatteryADBodyLoad:173
BatteryADGripNoLoad:1
BatteryADGripLoad:1
AFPredictor:10
AFDefocus:7
AFIntegrationTime:2ms
AFPointsInFocus:Center(vertical)
WBShiftAB:0
WBShiftMG:0
EVSteps:1/2EVSteps
SensitivitySteps:AsEVSteps

Thank you
Russell

--
http://waorak.tripod.com/