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SHARPEST Nokton on G1/GF1/GH1/EPxx?

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Activatedfx

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Hey all. I want an ultra-fast lens that's SHARP wide open. I've been obsessing over images on the internet/flickr/this forum to find the lens that has the right combination of features for my needs.

1. Ultra fast. f/1.4 or less.
2. Must be TACK SHARP at the widest aperture.
3. Must have the smoothest out of focus areas. (bokeh)

4. Would love it to be small/light, but will sacrifice size/weight for the best image quality.

I love my Hexanon 57mm f/1.2, but it not tack sharp until f/2+. It has a great "look" to the images, but I want faster and sharper in order to feel like I can ditch my 5D2 and Canon "L" lenses for a purely GF1/GH1 kit.

My choices are:

1. Nokton 50 f/1.5. Small-ish, fast enough, but any images I've found are slightly soft and bokeh is a little "busy". Would go for this one if I was convinced it was SHARP as it hits the price/size/performance sweet spot. Only IF it's sharp.

2. Nokton 50 f/1.1. Big, heavy, expensive, but sweet bokeh and I've seen SOME really sharp images taken with a GF1/GH1. Not convinced to drop $900 yet.

3. Nokton 35 f/1.2. Big, heavy, gorgeous bokeh but seems soft wide open from what I've seen. May not be worth the size/price difference between the 35 f/1.4...

4. Nokton 35 f/1.4. Small, light, affordable. Looks pretty sharp, but the bokeh is a little "busy" compared to 50 1.1 and 35 1.2

5. Nokton 40 f/1.4. Same as 35 f/1.4. Bokeh is busier than 35 1.4 and I like the 35 FOV better on the GF/GH. My least favorite choice.

I know there are other options, like the Leica 35 f/1.4, etc., but my pocketbook is not that deep. I'd like to keep this the Voigtlander Nokton offerings only.

So. Show me the SHARPNESS! WIDE OPEN Nokton shots ONLY! :-)

Thanks!

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Activatedfx said:
Hey all. I want an ultra-fast lens that's SHARP wide open. I've been obsessing over images on the internet/flickr/this forum to find the lens that has the right combination of features for my needs.

1. Ultra fast. f/1.4 or less.
2. Must be TACK SHARP at the widest aperture.
3. Must have the smoothest out of focus areas. (bokeh)

4. Would love it to be small/light, but will sacrifice size/weight for the best image quality.

I love my Hexanon 57mm f/1.2, but it not tack sharp until f/2+. It has a great "look" to the images, but I want faster and sharper in order to feel like I can ditch my 5D2 and Canon "L" lenses for a purely GF1/GH1 kit.

My choices are:

1. Nokton 50 f/1.5. Small-ish, fast enough, but any images I've found are slightly soft and bokeh is a little "busy". Would go for this one if I was convinced it was SHARP as it hits the price/size/performance sweet spot. Only IF it's sharp.

2. Nokton 50 f/1.1. Big, heavy, expensive, but sweet bokeh and I've seen SOME really sharp images taken with a GF1/GH1. Not convinced to drop $900 yet.

3. Nokton 35 f/1.2. Big, heavy, gorgeous bokeh but seems soft wide open from what I've seen. May not be worth the size/price difference between the 35 f/1.4...

4. Nokton 35 f/1.4. Small, light, affordable. Looks pretty sharp, but the bokeh is a little "busy" compared to 50 1.1 and 35 1.2

5. Nokton 40 f/1.4. Same as 35 f/1.4. Bokeh is busier than 35 1.4 and I like the 35 FOV better on the GF/GH. My least favorite choice.

I know there are other options, like the Leica 35 f/1.4, etc., but my pocketbook is not that deep. I'd like to keep this the Voigtlander Nokton offerings only.
Click to expand...
I'm in the same boat. I had an opportunity to pick up the 50/1.1, but opted out as I have the 45 Elmarit as well. 90mm FOV is already long-ish on my E-P2, so 100mm FOV would be difficult to manage for indoor portraits.

I'm currently looking into the CV 35/1.2 and CV 35/1.4MC. Bokeh on the 1.2 is definitely smoother and the lens should be sharp at F/1.4. So, looking for 35/1.2 samples @ F/1.4 please :)
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Sabesh
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EDIT: I didn't see your Nokton only Disclaimer until now. I will leave the post though because I think it shows some other options that you might not have considered. Being able to stop down steplessly is critical in my book.

It will be hard to find an F1.4 lens or less that is “tack sharp” wide open for less than $900. And it looks like you have already listed those options. Instead maybe you would consider a little longer focal length lens that is not tack sharp wide open but gets sharp really quickly?

The Nikon and Canon lenses will allow you to adjust the aperture steplessly with the correct adapters. I didn’t like the way that some lenses only allow F1.4 or F2.0 and nothing inbetween. I use the Sigma 30mm F1.4 with it stopped down to about F1.5-F1.7 and it works very well. I got that lens for $180 off of ebay.

You could also consider the 55mm F1.2 lenses with the stepless aperture. I bet they would look great if they are stopped down to F1.5. Those can be had for less than $400.

If you must have tack sharp wide open then get ready to spend the money because there just isn’t a way to get it on the cheap. If you are willing to compromise a bit then there are so many more choices.

If you go longer like 85mm then you can get some great inexpensive sharp lenses like the Nikon 85mm F1.8. The first shot is wide open and the second one is stopped down to F2.8.









I think this picture is with the Sigma 30mm F1.4 @ F1.7-F2.0. It could have been the 50mm F1.8 @ F1.8 though.





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GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
Funny you say 100mm is too long for portraits. I took a studio portrait for a friend who needed an album cover shot this weekend. I used the 5D2 + Canon 70-200 f/2.8, and found that 110mm was the focal length where I liked the framing, had right amount of DOF, etc.

I'd say 50mm (100mm on m4/3) is good for "portraits", and 35mm (70mm) or wider is about right for a fast "street" lens. But definitely 35mm (70mm) is a better "all-around" focal length that will work for BOTH purposes. I have a 40mm f/1.8 Hexanon and find that the effective 80mm is not quite long enough, and not quite wide enough...

Note that the 35 f/1.2 should get sharper at f/1.4+ and STILL give great bokeh, because it has 12 aperture blades and the OOF circles will stay nice and round.

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mpgxsvcd-

Thanks for the pics and thoughts!

The 85mm at f/2.8 has the sharpness I'm after (2nd pic). At f/1.8 (1st pic) it looks similar to the Hexanon 40 f/1.8 at about f/2.8, or the Hexanon 57 f/1.2 at f/2.8.

I guess f/2.8 is the sweet spot for sharpness in these lenses! But I want it at f/1.4!

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  • The sharpest ultra-fast lens, wide open, that I've used on any FourThirds camera is the Panasonic/Leica Summilux-D 25mm f/1.4 ASPH.
  • The second fastest but even sharper lens, wide open, is the Olympus ZD 50mm f/2 Macro.
  • The Lumix G 20mm f/1.7 and Macro-Elmarit 45mm f/2.8 ASPH OIS are right in line behind those two.
Those four out-perform any and all of the adapted third-party lenses I've used on straight-up sharpness and bokeh wide-open. Nothing I've seen posted from Noktons, Oly Pen F, Pentax, Canon FD, Nikon, Olympus OM, Leica R or M, Contax, etc lenses is quite as good wide open either.
  • The SHG Olympus Zuiko Digital 14-35/2, 35-100/2 and 150/2 lenses for FourThirds SLRs may outperform all of the above, but I'm not wealthy enough to find out for sure. ;-)
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Godfrey
http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
 
Activatedfx said:
Funny you say 100mm is too long for portraits. I took a studio portrait for a friend who needed an album cover shot this weekend. I used the 5D2 + Canon 70-200 f/2.8, and found that 110mm was the focal length where I liked the framing, had right amount of DOF, etc.
Click to expand...
It all depends on the individual and how they like to frame. I just find 100mm a tad bit too long (I prefer using my 85L-II over my 100L Macro on 5D-II for portraits).
Activatedfx said:
I'd say 50mm (100mm on m4/3) is good for "portraits", and 35mm (70mm) or wider is about right for a fast "street" lens. But definitely 35mm (70mm) is a better "all-around" focal length that will work for BOTH purposes. I have a 40mm f/1.8 Hexanon and find that the effective 80mm is not quite long enough, and not quite wide enough...
Click to expand...
Yes, the 70mm FOV is great for street shots and portraits for me also.
Activatedfx said:
Note that the 35 f/1.2 should get sharper at f/1.4+ and STILL give great bokeh, because it has 12 aperture blades and the OOF circles will stay nice and round.
Click to expand...
Yep, which is why I'd love to see some examples @ F/1.4, as the samples @ F/1.2 look a bit soft.

Cheers,
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Sabesh
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sabesh/
 
I agree with you Godfrey. Pana/Leica 25/1.4 is great (although huge for E-P2), Olympus 50/2 perfect match and Olympus 150/2 real gem. These three are still the best lenses for m4/3 in my mind. Too bad there is nothing comparable to choose from wideangles. Pana 20/1,7 is good, just OK compared to those but of course so small and handy to have around all the time.

-p-

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Do you have $900 then? I was after the same thing you are after. I finally gave up chasing the perfect wide open sharpness. I decided that covering the entire focal range from 20mm to 85mm in basically 10mm increments at F1.8 or less was a better option.

When I get my 55mm F1.2 I will have that basically complete. Buying all of those lenses costs less than one super sharp wide open lens.

If you want super shallow depth of field then buy/keep a full frame DSLR. The full frame gets you a factor of 2 for aperture! How many stops is that? There is just no way to get an m4/3s camera to equal the Full frames Bokeh at the same focal length. Well atleast not unless you know someone at Nasa that can lend you an 100mm F0.75 lens for the day.

Buy a cheap Canon 55mm F1.2 or F1.4 and the adapter with the continuous aperture adjustment. If it doesn't sharpen up by F1.4-F1.7 then sell the lens for what you paid for it and buy the expensive lens.
Activatedfx said:
mpgxsvcd-

I guess f/2.8 is the sweet spot for sharpness in these lenses! But I want it at f/1.4!

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/47813047@N03/
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_search.php?action=file&userID=1659785
http://activatedfx.smugmug.com/
Click to expand...
--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
The 50mm 1.5 is the sharpest wide open but the 50mm 1.1 is probably as sharp stopped down, The 35mm 1.2 is also probably as sharp stopped down and with these two faster lenses you have some extra light to play with if you need it. The question is would you prefer 70mm or 100mm.

The 35 which I just bought is sharp wide open its just that there is a slight soft halo around highlights, look at this chap's hand where this occurs and look how sharp it is on his eyes, this is a 35 at 1.2



You could also consider the Zeiss 50 1.5 which I hear is tack sharp wide open

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Maybe if we could get enough people to donate to the cause we could buy it for "testing" purposes. I guess we only need 2000 people to donate $1 right?

I would love to see some pictures with any of those lenses. The 14-35mm would be the only one that would be practical to use on m4/3s though.
Godfrey said:
  • The SHG Olympus Zuiko Digital 14-35/2, 35-100/2 and 150/2 lenses for FourThirds SLRs may outperform all of the above, but I'm not wealthy enough to find out for sure. ;-)
--
Godfrey
http://godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
Click to expand...
--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
I find 35 nokton f/1.2 very sharp wide open. But voigtlaender can have more variation among different copies of the same lens. It is not a leica. However, as far as center sharpness goes, it is really great and comparable to 35mm summilux. In fact, some reviews indicate that it is sharper in the center, but not in the corners. Among all the Olympus SHG lenses I owned (14-35, 35-100 and 150) I would rate them in decreasing order of sharpness as follows: 1. 150 2. 14-35 3. 35-100 Currently, I only have 150, I sold others 35-100 due to its huge size -it can be very intimidating- and 14-35 to raise funds for a rf system. I would not use any of them on a micro 4/3 body though... 35 nokton really performs great on a Leica cropped sensor body, I would guess that it would certainly perform much better on a 4/3 due to not using the corners that much, where its sharpness decreases.

Nokton 50 f/1.5 is considered to be a very good lens regardless of its price. Some say that it could have been sold at a far more expensive price point and it would still be worth it, in fact people would take the lens more seriously. 50 f/1.1 is a bit softer wide open, but I am sure it gains sharpness quickly with smaller apertures.
 
mpgxsvcd wrote:
..
mpgxsvcd said:
I would love to see some pictures with any of those lenses. ...
Click to expand...
Nothing much right now, I need to organize things to arrange more pictures, but I posted a few ones at the bokeh thread here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50489&page=55

Check again the post under the same username. Except the middle yellow flower picture, which I took with the 50mm macro, the others are taken using 150mm f/2, my favorite of the bunch among those lenses, and they are wide open, one is at f/2.5 though...
 
Excellent, thanks for pointing me to those. I would love to shoot some video with that 14-35mm on a GH1. I think that would be the ideal lens for video. However, that lens alone costs as much as a 7D so it is unfortunately not an option for me.

Do you have any of the EXIF data from those pictures?
artears said:
artears said:
I would love to see some pictures with any of those lenses. ...
Click to expand...
Nothing much right now, I need to organize things to arrange more pictures, but I posted a few ones at the bokeh thread here: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50489&page=55

Check again the post under the same username. Except the middle yellow flower picture, which I took with the 50mm macro, the others are taken using 150mm f/2, my favorite of the bunch among those lenses, and they are wide open, one is at f/2.5 though...
Click to expand...
--
GF1 & ZS3 Sample movies
http://www.youtube.com/user/mpgxsvcd#play/uploads
GF1 Pictures
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/4222674355/albums
 
Buchan-

I saw the post with your new lenses. To me, the 35 1.2 images don't look completely sharp? Maybe it's the "glow"? Have you taken any more, or could you take ONE, perfectly focused image? Even a cat would be fine. :)

I wish I could find/afford the Leica 75mm like you picked up. The images in your thread that were taken with that lens are amazing... the kind of image quality and look I'd love to be able to get. But 75mm may be a little long for my purposes...

Sigh... I'm being overly picky here, but if I'm going to ditch the 5D2+lenses, I want a lens that will do exactly what I want.

Keep the images and thoughts coming!
Buchan Grant said:
The 50mm 1.5 is the sharpest wide open but the 50mm 1.1 is probably as sharp stopped down, The 35mm 1.2 is also probably as sharp stopped down and with these two faster lenses you have some extra light to play with if you need it. The question is would you prefer 70mm or 100mm.

The 35 which I just bought is sharp wide open its just that there is a slight soft halo around highlights, look at this chap's hand where this occurs and look how sharp it is on his eyes, this is a 35 at 1.2
Click to expand...
Buchan Grant said:
You could also consider the Zeiss 50 1.5 which I hear is tack sharp wide open
Click to expand...
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http://activatedfx.smugmug.com/
 
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