D60 Under-exposure?

Glenn_UK · Sep 28, 2002

Two weeks with the D60 and must say i'm (thus far) more disappointed than thrilled.

Apart from doubts I have (yet to be methodically tested) about the accuracy or otherwise of precise focussing, my concern is mainly about the (seemingly) serious under-exposure of each shot i take.

I'm a professional artist (for more than 30-odd years) rather than professional photographer, but i know how to handle a camera; and i know full well when it's i - rather than the camera - that has made the mistake... Equally, i know when it's the tool that's not functioning properly...
And that does seem to be the case here.

I've seen - on other D60 forums - others complain of the same thing: persistent under-exposure (some even having sent their unit back to Canon for 'repair', only to have them returned as being 'within spec' - so i'm doubting my particular unit is 'faulty').

Has nobody here found similar exposure problems?

(PS: I'm using the latest(?) firmware: 1.0.2).

don miller · Sep 28, 2002

Hi Glenn post some pics

Glenn_UK said:
Two weeks with the D60 and must say i'm (thus far) more
disappointed than thrilled.
Apart from doubts I have (yet to be methodically tested) about the
accuracy or otherwise of precise focussing, my concern is mainly
about the (seemingly) serious under-exposure of each shot i take.
I'm a professional artist (for more than 30-odd years) rather than
professional photographer, but i know how to handle a camera; and i
know full well when it's i - rather than the camera - that has made
the mistake... Equally, i know when it's the tool that's not
functioning properly...
And that does seem to be the case here.
I've seen - on other D60 forums - others complain of the same
thing: persistent under-exposure (some even having sent their unit
back to Canon for 'repair', only to have them returned as being
'within spec' - so i'm doubting my particular unit is 'faulty').

Has nobody here found similar exposure problems?

(PS: I'm using the latest(?) firmware: 1.0.2).

Hibbs · Sep 28, 2002

I'm by no means a professional but my photos are under-exposed. I just got my D60 last week. I do not shoot in automatic mode.

Glenn_UK said:
Two weeks with the D60 and must say i'm (thus far) more
disappointed than thrilled.
Apart from doubts I have (yet to be methodically tested) about the
accuracy or otherwise of precise focussing, my concern is mainly
about the (seemingly) serious under-exposure of each shot i take.
I'm a professional artist (for more than 30-odd years) rather than
professional photographer, but i know how to handle a camera; and i
know full well when it's i - rather than the camera - that has made
the mistake... Equally, i know when it's the tool that's not
functioning properly...
And that does seem to be the case here.
I've seen - on other D60 forums - others complain of the same
thing: persistent under-exposure (some even having sent their unit
back to Canon for 'repair', only to have them returned as being
'within spec' - so i'm doubting my particular unit is 'faulty').

Has nobody here found similar exposure problems?

(PS: I'm using the latest(?) firmware: 1.0.2).

biggles · Sep 28, 2002

http://www.robgalbraith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=002570

it is a test that you can perform to see if you really have a problem.
from what i've read, and tested, the D60 is reluctant to overexposing shots.

when i performed the test with a 24-85mm lens, my grayscale readings were 57-59%.
with a 50mm f/1.4 lens, the readings were at 54-56%.

i too thought that at times, my shots were underexposing, but the test proves other wise, and according to Chuck Westfall, this is the test that Canon performs as well. be sure to test in a well lit room though, as under 60 watt bulb lighting, it gives inaccurate results.

don miller · Sep 28, 2002

Post some pics and then we can get into a discussion of histograms, highlights and data capture. You have a dslr, not a digicam. They are not designed to expose the same.

Hibbs said:
Glenn_UK said:

Two weeks with the D60 and must say i'm (thus far) more
disappointed than thrilled.
Apart from doubts I have (yet to be methodically tested) about the
accuracy or otherwise of precise focussing, my concern is mainly
about the (seemingly) serious under-exposure of each shot i take.
I'm a professional artist (for more than 30-odd years) rather than
professional photographer, but i know how to handle a camera; and i
know full well when it's i - rather than the camera - that has made
the mistake... Equally, i know when it's the tool that's not
functioning properly...
And that does seem to be the case here.
I've seen - on other D60 forums - others complain of the same
thing: persistent under-exposure (some even having sent their unit
back to Canon for 'repair', only to have them returned as being
'within spec' - so i'm doubting my particular unit is 'faulty').

Has nobody here found similar exposure problems?

(PS: I'm using the latest(?) firmware: 1.0.2).

Click to expand...

biggles · Sep 28, 2002

good call on the Histograms Don, they do tell you what just happened after the shot, and clearly show why some lenses do produce the darker frame.

don miller said:
Hibbs said:

Glenn_UK said:

Two weeks with the D60 and must say i'm (thus far) more
disappointed than thrilled.
Apart from doubts I have (yet to be methodically tested) about the
accuracy or otherwise of precise focussing, my concern is mainly
about the (seemingly) serious under-exposure of each shot i take.
I'm a professional artist (for more than 30-odd years) rather than
professional photographer, but i know how to handle a camera; and i
know full well when it's i - rather than the camera - that has made
the mistake... Equally, i know when it's the tool that's not
functioning properly...
And that does seem to be the case here.
I've seen - on other D60 forums - others complain of the same
thing: persistent under-exposure (some even having sent their unit
back to Canon for 'repair', only to have them returned as being
'within spec' - so i'm doubting my particular unit is 'faulty').

Has nobody here found similar exposure problems?

(PS: I'm using the latest(?) firmware: 1.0.2).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

don miller · Sep 28, 2002

biggles said:
good call on the Histograms Don, they do tell you what just
happened after the shot, and clearly show why some lenses do
produce the darker frame.

DSLR newbies need to understand that their digicams were throwing away highlights as a tradeoff for ease of use. Part of the learning curve.

smehe · Sep 28, 2002

At the risk of making an idiot of myself:

I used to have a D30, which I assume has about the same exposure characteristics as the D60. I also wondered whether my camera had an under-exposure problem. I read a lot about the camera both here and on other sites, and it turned out that this is by design. You shouldn't expect a perfect exposure out-of-the camera. You should expect an exposure that has captured information that allows you to pull out the colors, detail and contrast that you were aiming for.

This seems perfectly reasonable to me...

Glenn_UK · Sep 28, 2002

Hi, all

My many thanks to you.

The point which seems to be emerging is that the D60 (as opposed to, say, my G2) actually gathers and stores more extensive visual data which then needs to be processed, to extract the image i 'thought' i'd shot?

This has been what i've gradually come to realise, myself.

To simply up the EV, in order to get an image which 'overall' seems more accurately to reflect the given subject/scene/lighting is to sacrifice the wealth of detail in the highlights. Which i hate to do. Yet, to lose 'vibrancy' in keeping that detail...?

Clearly, i've much to learn.

Again, my thanks to all - really!

I'll contribute more, once i've mastered things a bit better...

Glenn_UK · Sep 28, 2002

Sorry, i missed your reply, but please see my last post above.

I think i agree: it does seem perfectly reasonable... (if anything in this world is reasonable)!

Stephen Rosenblum · Sep 29, 2002

I just got back from photographing my wife's 50th birthday dinner with my D60 using the built in flash. All of the photos were significantly underexposed both visually and by histogram. I had to correct them in subtantially in photoshop to make them reasonably printable. I seem to remember earlier discussions about this flash underexposure issue on this forum. Does anyone have an update?

Glenn_UK said:
Sorry, i missed your reply, but please see my last post above.

I think i agree: it does seem perfectly reasonable... (if anything
in this world is reasonable)!

Kevin Omura · Sep 29, 2002

The first day I was shooting with my D60 I accidentally shifted the exposure compensation to the left making my shots 2 stops under exposed. I turned off the dial on the rear of the camera to avoid doing this again.

On the top LCD there is a bar at the bottom of the display, make sure the flashing cursor is centered. If not then this is your exposure problem.

Kevin

PaulS95190 · Sep 29, 2002

I used to set the EV +1/3 - +2/3 but now after 7000 shots I've learned it was more me than the camera. Study the metering modes enough to know when not to use a particular mode and always use the proper WB settings and you'll learn how it works. I occasionally will bump a picture 1/3 in Photoshop but rarely any more than that.

Glenn_UK said:
Two weeks with the D60 and must say i'm (thus far) more
disappointed than thrilled.
Apart from doubts I have (yet to be methodically tested) about the
accuracy or otherwise of precise focussing, my concern is mainly
about the (seemingly) serious under-exposure of each shot i take.
I'm a professional artist (for more than 30-odd years) rather than
professional photographer, but i know how to handle a camera; and i
know full well when it's i - rather than the camera - that has made
the mistake... Equally, i know when it's the tool that's not
functioning properly...
And that does seem to be the case here.
I've seen - on other D60 forums - others complain of the same
thing: persistent under-exposure (some even having sent their unit
back to Canon for 'repair', only to have them returned as being
'within spec' - so i'm doubting my particular unit is 'faulty').

Has nobody here found similar exposure problems?

(PS: I'm using the latest(?) firmware: 1.0.2).

Troponin · Sep 30, 2002

You might want to check various lenses for this particular problem. I have a 28-135IS that was "consistently" underexp'ing by 2/3 stops compared to other lenses. Many others on this forum have reported similar problems with this lens as well as others.

Just a another thing to deal with.

Troponin

"at the heart of the matter."

Glenn_UK said:
Two weeks with the D60 and must say i'm (thus far) more
disappointed than thrilled.
Apart from doubts I have (yet to be methodically tested) about the
accuracy or otherwise of precise focussing, my concern is mainly
about the (seemingly) serious under-exposure of each shot i take.
I'm a professional artist (for more than 30-odd years) rather than
professional photographer, but i know how to handle a camera; and i
know full well when it's i - rather than the camera - that has made
the mistake... Equally, i know when it's the tool that's not
functioning properly...
And that does seem to be the case here.
I've seen - on other D60 forums - others complain of the same
thing: persistent under-exposure (some even having sent their unit
back to Canon for 'repair', only to have them returned as being
'within spec' - so i'm doubting my particular unit is 'faulty').

Has nobody here found similar exposure problems?

(PS: I'm using the latest(?) firmware: 1.0.2).

Dennis Lathem49692 · Sep 30, 2002

Glenn_UK said:
I've seen - on other D60 forums - others complain of the same
thing: persistent under-exposure (some even having sent their unit
back to Canon for 'repair', only to have them returned as being
'within spec' - so i'm doubting my particular unit is 'faulty').

Check your firmware version. Prior to the updated firmware I had underexposure problems when using the illuminated focus points in eval metering mode. I also appeard to have slight underexposure in other modes. After the firmware upgrade I have found I have no need for exposure compensation in any mode.

Like others have said and will say, you will learn a lot about yourself with this camera and time and frames will help you a lot. After 10,000 frames (Since May 18th) I find that I am beginning to take better shots with the D60 from all aspects. This camera has shown me how much I need to learn about photography and that I have to think much more that I ever did with the point and shoot, which is the reason there are point and shoot digital cameras.

I was like you for the first several weeks. I wondered if I had made a terrible, and expensive mistake. Now, four months later, I find I can even do a decent job with flash photography..if I keep my head...and I really enjoy the hobby a lot!

Good Luck and enjoy

--
CDL
D60/BG-ED3/24-85mm Canon
50mm f1.4 Canon/75-300mm IS Canon/550EX
EPSON 2200P

don miller · Sep 30, 2002

Dennis makes several excellent points. Even people coming from film slr's often don't appreciate the amount of adjustment labs made when printing.

I learned more about exposure in my first few months with a dslr than in all my film and digicam shooting combined (O.K., so I was a hack). The preview mode showing histogram and blown highlights is extremely valuable. Almost everyone is on a steep and fun learning curve with their first dslr.

Who has some good links for basic exposure, white balance and sharpening lessons? I think the first poster especially needs to understand levels and how to make adjustments post-processing.

don

Dennis Lathem49692 said:
Check your firmware version. Prior to the updated firmware I had
underexposure problems when using the illuminated focus points in
eval metering mode. I also appeard to have slight underexposure in
other modes. After the firmware upgrade I have found I have no
need for exposure compensation in any mode.

Like others have said and will say, you will learn a lot about
yourself with this camera and time and frames will help you a lot.
After 10,000 frames (Since May 18th) I find that I am beginning to
take better shots with the D60 from all aspects. This camera has
shown me how much I need to learn about photography and that I have
to think much more that I ever did with the point and shoot, which
is the reason there are point and shoot digital cameras.

I was like you for the first several weeks. I wondered if I had
made a terrible, and expensive mistake. Now, four months later, I
find I can even do a decent job with flash photography..if I keep
my head...and I really enjoy the hobby a lot!

Good Luck and enjoy

--
CDL
D60/BG-ED3/24-85mm Canon
50mm f1.4 Canon/75-300mm IS Canon/550EX
EPSON 2200P

Glenn_UK · Oct 7, 2002

troponin said:
You might want to check various lenses for this particular problem.
I have a 28-135IS that was "consistently" underexp'ing by 2/3 stops
compared to other lenses. Many others on this forum have reported
similar problems with this lens as well as others.

Many thanks for that, about the 28-135 IS. I was just about to post a Q about that, having read one person suggest this lens does under-expose by 2/3.

That's the only lens i have, so can do no comparisons.

You say it "was" consistently under-exposing. Does this mean you now set it +1/3 always, to compensate?

My thanks

biggles · Oct 7, 2002

first of all Glenn, forget about what tropo has to say and read this link and do the test for yourself...............you might find that you don't have a problem at all...........in the discussion, Chuck states that you can substitute an 18% gray card instead of the grayscale for testing, and his reply is about 9 posts down from the top;

http://www.robgalbraith.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=8&t=003165

Glenn_UK said:
troponin said:

You might want to check various lenses for this particular problem.
I have a 28-135IS that was "consistently" underexp'ing by 2/3 stops
compared to other lenses. Many others on this forum have reported
similar problems with this lens as well as others.

Click to expand...

Many thanks for that, about the 28-135 IS. I was just about to post
a Q about that, having read one person suggest this lens does
under-expose by 2/3.

That's the only lens i have, so can do no comparisons.

You say it "was" consistently under-exposing. Does this mean you
now set it +1/3 always, to compensate?

My thanks

Troponin · Oct 7, 2002

Glenn_UK said:
You say it "was" consistently under-exposing. Does this mean you
now set it +1/3 always, to compensate?

My thanks

I Exp. Comp for +2/3's for lens all the time-- works like charm.

Just recently, I purchased a 70-200 f/4L and conducted an exp. study with a 50% gray card that I maded in PS. Both the historgram and the info data in PS suggested that the new lens underexps' by 1/3 stop. And, the 28-135 underExp's by 2/3 again using the new test data.

Go Figure, brand new "L" glass unders by 1/3, Go figure. (hehe). I am keeping both as I like the color and sharpness. You just gotta work with the limitations of your equipment.

Trop

biggles · Oct 7, 2002

where do you find one of those???

funny thing is that i have the 70-200 f/4 L and it is dead on..........no exposure adjs. needed for taking shots...........
but this 50% gray card???? what is it and where do you (or why do you) get one??

troponin said:
Just recently, I purchased a 70-200 f/4L and conducted an exp.
study with a"> 50% gray card
and the info data in PS suggested that the new lens underexps' by
1/3 stop. And, the 28-135 underExp's by 2/3 again using the new
test data.

Go Figure, brand new "L" glass unders by 1/3, Go figure. (hehe). I
am keeping both as I like the color and sharpness. You just gotta
work with the limitations of your equipment.

Trop

D60 Under-exposure?

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