EX1 with no HD video mode...dumb move Samsung

The "fact" that it uses the same Sony sensor as the Canon S90 would only be speculation then? That sensor is obviously only capable of VGA video (see mr Parrs posts above).
Just to be clear here: I don't think any of the people, including me, who are assuming that the camera is using the Sony sensor know this for fact. It was an assumption that was buttressed by the still and video specs, which are perfect matches for the Sony sensor.

If these specs were, for example, inaccurately reported due to sloppy cutting and pasting form another camera, then the basis for assuming that the EX1 is using the Sony sensor would evaporate.

--
Ron Parr
Digital Photography FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
Of course the EX1/TL500 uses the Sony sensor (same size, pixel count). Samsung would be touting their "newly-developed, high-performance" sensor, if they actually made it themselves. When this cam was rumored, I assumed that Samsung had developed a new sensor (the rumors said it would be 10MP 1/1.8".) When I read the announcement, it was clear that they are using the same sensor that Canon and Ricoh use. And that Sony sensor doesn't do HD.

That Samsung rep probably says that the Ex1 is 1 inch thick too.
but if I can get two or three stop better ISO performance, and two or three stops faster lens, that will often be the difference between not getting the shot of my kids at 1/4 second and getting it at 1/64 second.
Since manufacturers are allowed to be "loose" with the spec tolerances, I'd bet there's hardly any real difference between Samsung's f/1.8 lens and Panny's f/2.0, other than for marketing. And there definitely is NOT a two or three stop advantage.

Maybe I missed the review that shows the Sony sensor having a two or three stop better ISO performance too.
To say that Samsung has made a terrible mistake because they have come out with a great still camera at the expense of HD video, is not recognizing that there are lots of kinds of consumers out there.
That's true. If I only shot stills, I'd probably have the TL500 on order already.
 
but if I can get two or three stop better ISO performance, and two or three stops faster lens, that will often be the difference between not getting the shot of my kids at 1/4 second and getting it at 1/64 second.
Since manufacturers are allowed to be "loose" with the spec tolerances, I'd bet there's hardly any real difference between Samsung's f/1.8 lens and Panny's f/2.0, other than for marketing. And there definitely is NOT a two or three stop advantage.
I wasn't actually thinking of the LX3 specifically, but just the general P&Ss that are out there.
Maybe I missed the review that shows the Sony sensor having a two or three stop better ISO performance too.
Really? Because they are not too hard to find. Most reviews I have looked at show the G11 being perhaps 1-2 stops better then the LX3. My own personal experience bears this out.

So, taking Samsung at their word (for the time being), lets say half a stop for the faster lens and perhaps a 1.5 stops for the Sony sensor.

Given the amount of video I shoot, and my different requirements related to video quality over still quality, I would certainly trade up for a solid 2 stops improvement.

Others with different video/still requirements can disagree, but my point is that it is not a completely insane decision on Samsungs part to target people like me.

MIchael

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/
 
This camera can deliver up to 921x690 30fps video, if the Sony sensor spec assumption is correct.

Not a standard HD resolution, but to be honest, consumers cameras are not made to adhere to strict TV broadcast standards, DSRLs dont adhere even 75%.

Don't understand this 1080P or nothing attitude. I don't see people demanding still images delivered at specific pixel dimensions.

My main grievance though is the 4:3 aspect ratio and of yes hiGHER resolution is better, but it don't necessarily have to be 720P or 1080P.

Now, Samsung said that they are going to be very open and listening to firmware suggestions.

I suggest they enable this camera to record video at the max resolution this sensor can deliver (921x690) and also provide a 16:9 in crop mode.

However, 1080p or 720p though is not going to happen if it is hardware limited.
 
Others with different video/still requirements can disagree, but my point is that it is not a completely insane decision on Samsungs part to target people like me.
I think Samsung and many others make plenty of cameras for people who believe you must have HD video in your digicam. I'm glad to see a camera that appeals to those who want higher quality images and some extended capabilities (like a hot shoe, 24mm WA with a fast lens) in a very compact package. The µ4/3 cameras are not turning out to be so small and unobtrusive and don't fill the need Samsung has recognized.

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Darrell
 
There are some people who really want 690 lines at 4:3 aspect ratio. There's a guy in Canon forum who is pining for it.

Just my impression: This isn't a large group of people.

My guess for why it's not enabled: It's not easily explained with a little sticker/icon they can put on the box. If a feature doesn't pass this test, then my best is that they start wondering if its worth the engineering time and how many people would really miss it. The existence of these cameras is itself a gamble that image quality sells.

Yes - I do realize that's a shallow and silly reason but IMO, but that doesn't necessarily imply that it's implausible.

--
Ron Parr
Digital Photography FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
Maybe I missed the review that shows the Sony sensor having a two or three stop better ISO performance too.
Really? Because they are not too hard to find. Most reviews I have looked at show the G11 being perhaps 1-2 stops better then the LX3. My own personal experience bears this out.
Since I do not personally have this experience, perhaps you can tell me at which ISOs the Sony sensor outputs an appreciable difference in IQ, for a given (normal, not pixel-peeping) screen view or print size.
Others with different video/still requirements can disagree, but my point is that it is not a completely insane decision on Samsungs part to target people like me.
I don't think it's so much that they are targeting people like you, as it is that they just used the best sensor that was available. It just so happens that Sony greedily and purposefully omitted HD capability so that people also buy next year's "new&improved with HD!" model optimized the sensor for stills.

I am glad to see another advanced compact on the scene. It is yet another aggressive and impressive move by Samsung. Any day now, Panasonic will raise the bar for this segment, and we'll have another tool to consider.
 
There are some people who really want 690 lines at 4:3 aspect ratio. There's a guy in Canon forum who is pining for it.
The wish is not for a specific number, but rather to get the best the sensor is capable of offering in terms of resolution.
Just my impression: This isn't a large group of people.
Since when the size of a group of people dictates logic ?!
You need to be knowledgeable on technology to demand the right things.
My guess for why it's not enabled: It's not easily explained with a little sticker/icon they can put on the box. If a feature doesn't pass this test, then my best is that they start wondering if its worth the engineering time and how many people would really miss it. The existence of these cameras is itself a gamble that image quality sells.
They can add a sticker that says 690P !

Consumers won't notice that 690P is not an HD standard, as they won't care or notice that 30fps is not the same as the proper 29.97fps or 44.1 vs 48Hz for Audio Sampling Frequency.
Yes - I do realize that's a shallow and silly reason but IMO, but that doesn't necessarily imply that it's implausible.
I don't discard the possibility that there are reasons like some technical issues when you push the sensor to the maximum rate, like frame stability, hangups, excessive noise, etc.
But just in case there is no such technical limits it never hurts to ask.

At least a 16:9 aspect ratio is something that is really really needed to fill current TV and Computer screens.
 
Since I do not personally have this experience, perhaps you can tell me at which ISOs the Sony sensor outputs an appreciable difference in IQ, for a given (normal, not pixel-peeping) screen view or print size.
I would normally question the validity of this method of comparison, but I'll assume that you have some good reason for this and treat your request seriously. Start here:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canong11/page17.asp

Start at ISO 400 and compare the LX3 shots with the G11 shots. Even if you reduce the images to some small size but you use a good monitor/printer, you should start noticing that the LX3 is losing the ability to distinguish between the different shades of gray at the right on the kodak gray scale (counting from 19 down). Things just get worse as you increase the ISO.

What this shows it that noise is eroding the details in the shadows in the LX3 shots.

IMO, there are plenty of other differences as well, but I chose this one because it's an easy one to identify and it persists across a wide range of viewing sizes.
Others with different video/still requirements can disagree, but my point is that it is not a completely insane decision on Samsungs part to target people like me.
I don't think it's so much that they are targeting people like you, as it is that they just used the best sensor that was available. It just so happens that Sony greedily and purposefully omitted HD capability so that people also buy next year's "new&improved with HD!" model optimized the sensor for stills.
(Focusing on your struck out bits): Normally, I would point out that such positions are full of holes because they are based upon a bunch of premises that are demonstrably false, e.g., that a manufacturer controls enough of the market that it can intentionally sandbag products and ignore the effects of competition.* In this particular case though, Sony does have a ridiculously large share of the market for, roughly speaking, sensors targeted for good quality compact still cameras, that it is at least reasonable to consider the possibility of Sony to acting as something close to a monopolist.
  • A lot of people have a view of firms that seems to have been influenced by the classic IBM golden screwdriver stories:
http://www.sdsusa.com/dictionary/index.htm?g#g2g

(scroll down to get to the golden screwdriver)

What people forget is that IBM could do this precisely because they essentially had a monopoly on mainframes and didn't need to worry about a competitor offering a better deal. In a market with real competition, this kind of sandbagging with huge upgrade costs wouldn't last for long because a competitor would realize that they could steal sales by offering better performance at a better price and the golden screwdriver upgrade pricing would rapidly be pushed down (though not necessarily elminated) due to competition.

--
Ron Parr
Digital Photography FAQ: http://www.cs.duke.edu/~parr/photography/faq.html
Gallery: http://www.pbase.com/parr/
 
I am glad to see another advanced compact on the scene. It is yet another aggressive and impressive move by Samsung. Any day now, Panasonic will raise the bar for this segment, and we'll have another tool to consider.
Now here we do agree. I am very interested in this camera, but I will wait a bit and see if Panasonic plans to do an LX4, or if they are phasing out the LX line in favor of the GF line.

The EX1 vs LX4 is a choice I would like to have to make.

Michael

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelthek/
 

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