"Olympus E system mirrorless in two years. Probably."

They will probably lose me as a buyer of new cameras..
Me too. The clear OVF was a major reason I moved up to DSLRs.
Unless some "electronic miracle" occurs, the EVF will always have a detectable delay.. (not real time) OVF works at the speed of light, evf (so far) does NOT.
In addition to zero delay, an OVF also renders at an infinite frame rate.

--



E-Five-Ten/E-One/E-Three-Hundred/E-Ten/C-Twenty-OneHundred-UZ/E-OneHundred-RS
DZ Eleven-TwentyTwo/DZ Fourteen-FiftyFour/DZ Fifty-TwoHundred
EC-Fourteen/FL-Fifty/FL-Forty
Oldma-cdon-aldh-adaf-arm-EI-EI-O
 
Except among a strangely large number of Olympus users.

I have to say that I'm amused by the number of Oly users who seem to think that mirrors. prisms and shutters are the "now and forever" of high end photography.

I'm actually snickering at the folks who are claiming in this thread that they will likely switch to Nikon or Canon. How odd to see people willing to march into oblivion for the sake of their mechanical shutters and flapping mirrors. Seriously...do people ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the current 50+ year old SLR layout has a future?

As was pointed out in the interview, current DSLRs are basically old designs with a sensor where the film was.

Olympus will likely be the FIRST to go with an all electronic system...and some people think they will be the last? People think that Nikon and Canon will still make conventional SLR styled cameras 10 years after Oly goes electronic? Really?

What next...computers without floppy drives? Replacing VHS tapes with discs? Watches that use batteries instead of springs? No way.

The truth is, many of these people would be more comfortable with Canon and Nikon. Olympus is an innovator. Canon and Nikon stick with the safest design possible until they are forced to change. If you hate change, Canon and Nikon are the cameras for you.
for some of us OVF's are the answer because quite simply they work, i see nothing wrong with the desire to still be using one in 10 years time, i also see nothing wrong for those who wish to be rid of them, i just hope that my choices and wishes are catered for too.
--
http://illy.smugmug.com
 
We are all made to pay the price of innovation at Oly, in the shape of half baked models that will find a technical maturity only at their third iteration, or more.

It is all very well to be at the edge of innovation, but something must be said for reliability and proven technical solutions.

Happily I am not in a situation in which I squandered thousands dollars of lenses, only to use them with an adapter on a diminutive m4/3 body.

Ih Oly wants to be at the bleeding edge, they should make a very clear statement about what their customers might expect about their past investment. Otherwise they will always be at the mercy of some **** up.

They can't behave as if they were a P&S company playing on fun, coloured bodies, and some striking new feature.

They must be somehow more serious about their upgrade solutions and how they communicate them to their customers. Yu can't do guerrilla tactics with lenses worth thousands of dollars. Or expect their owners to buy a new camera every 3 months or else never, say every 3 years, like in the case of the E-x.

Panny at least took a clear cut decision in going the whole way to m4/3, but Oly?
The disconnect is not going to play well with the upper tier customers.

Also it's not only a matter on how to innovate bodies. Who will guarantee that the smaller lenses will have the same excellency of Oly's past creations? Or just rely on the vagaries of in-camera correction?

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric
 
As a lot of us have been saying since the original Micro 4/3 announcement. The regular 4/3 system is dead. Olympus is just taking their time letting the world know.
 
They will probably lose me as a buyer of new cameras..

Unless some "electronic miracle" occurs, the EVF will always have a detectable delay.. (not real time) OVF works at the speed of light, evf (so far) does NOT.
--
Yes, it would be a mistake to chuck the mirror if the EVF did not equal an OVF (or nearly equal it, but bring other improvements.)

I recall when I had my E-100rs and then bought an E-10. I was shooting a softball game and with the E-10, I was shooting ahead of the play until I trained my brain to slow down. The EVF lag of the E-100rs (when not using the motor drive and pre-capture) had taught my brain to allow for the lag by pressing the shutter in advance.

I know the lag has shortened a lot since 2001... and I hope for a closed gap by 2012. As far as I know, electricity travels pretty quickly. Lightning gives us hope!
--
Barry
 
About autofocus:

'Soon the AF system in the Pen cameras will be as fast as that in the E system DSLRs so there it will be possible to get just as good AF performance without the mirror system.'

Almost everyone owning an E3/ E30 and SHG glass confirms that autofocus is the weak point of this system (try to shoot sports/ wildlife). I wil not buy a new body with similar AF performance, I prefer an improved E3 and not a body that equals it with new tech . We need faster and more reliable AF, especially in C-AF.

I don't judge EVF or OVF. Just see what they come up with and how good it is.

But if this announcement is a way of saying: we are abandoning 4/ 3rds and will make micro 4/3rds only than I prefer them to be honest and say more clear that they quit 4/ 3rds. I have got 15000 euros of Oly glass here and I expect them to make a new pro body for that. And the longer they wait with the announcement, the worse is my feeling on this matter.

Innovation is good. But not at the cost of your high end customers...
 
In addition to zero delay, an OVF also renders at an infinite frame rate.
I prefer OVF to EVF for the time been. But EVF does not have to beat an OVF.

If it can out resolve human visual system and provide refresh rates faster than our visual systems frame rate thats all what we need. (Well it needs to provide accurate color and contrast also).

I am not exactly sure whether this could be done in two years, but at the rate technology develops you wont be waiting for decades for this.
 
Even if he has a title "manager". Other than that, he works with marketing (if he is employed by Olympus at all), not technology, so he does not have to know everything concerning every camera and lens.
So someone who is described as "Olympus America's DSLR product manager" is really a rep, perhaps isn't employed by Olympus, works with marketing, and probably doesn't know much about Olympus cameras and lenses? Hmmm!
 
travelfotografer wrote:

I am not sure. They might instead make a µ4/3 flagship with adapter, if the main goal is to go smaller and lighter. The big lenses go against this tide.
I really think that anything signioficantly smaller than the E-1 would not work well as a serious camera for top grade lenses. I am also pretty sure that OLympus would be making a huge mistake to abandon the brilliant optical VF they developed for the E-3 that soon.
I don't know how authoritative is a US DSLR product manager, but the explanation of Oly's mysterious ways seems plausible. Not glad or sad, but a mix of both.
Same here. Video, film, etcetera can be very good, but they are still a long way from reality. Olympus has always been an innovator, but sometimes the wrong direction, especially in VF's (I'm remembering the dim oprical tunnels of the Pen and E-300 here).
As always, they could have told us before. Mr. Watanabe didn't say anything of the kind only 6 months ago.
I also wonder whether this is mainly speculation, or (I suspect) reflects internal discussions taking place in Olympus. Personally, I'd like to see an E-1 sized or slightly larger camera with an E-3 sized 100% VF, with some effective switching back and forth to EVF and a competitive sized and res pivoting, possibly detachable and cable or Blue tooth linkable - LCD. (Which certainly became possible when the pivoting LCD was developed.)

For me, a good optical VF sombined with compact size has been a major reason for buying one camera over another from the OM-1 (2 and 4) on through the E-1 and (grudgingly!) the E-3.
--
erichK
saskatoon, canada

http://erichk.zenfolio.com/
 
Certainly, it wasn't an issue with the E330, there was no blank screen with Live A. Then again, Live A used a secondary sensor which the evil design doesn't allow for.

As I understand it, the pause is to let the sensor stabilize and perhaps even cool down a bit, before taking the 'money' photo. Extra heatsinking, perhaps a peltier junction, or some unnamed technology can address that.

People at Olympus actually use the cameras, too. I'm sure they wouldn't put out a mirrorless/EVF 4/3 camera unless they were sure they could address this issue.
 
anything you place in that pathway will be visible in liveview. the only way that I can see that CDAF will be as good as PDAF is to offer some form of phasing, a sort of hybrid CDAF.

This would see some areas of the sensor devoted to AF points, with varying depths so that they would be either side of the register depth. These areas would be interpolated out later. Phasing is desirable b/se it tells the AF system motors which way to go when it starts, and when to stop when it gets there...

For CDAF just one of the problems is that the well sizes for these AF points would be smaller than dedicated PDAF points on an AF sensor found in common SLRs, this affects their low light capability

as always, horses for courses
The typical hybrid horses for all possible courses are Canon and Nikon's behemoth, $7k 'professional' models. These are not something I have ever wanted to carry or use, even at times when I might have affiorded one (I was almost given an F5).

The sweet spot that Olympus hit with the OM-1, and almost hit with the E-1 was for a camera that does 95% of what these monsters do in a much more compact and significantly more affordable system package.

The OVF is still a significant part of that package. This may change in five or ten years, buit I doubt that it will in two.
--
erichK
saskatoon, canada

http://erichk.zenfolio.com/
 
Even if he has a title "manager". Other than that, he works with marketing (if he is employed by Olympus at all), not technology, so he does not have to know everything concerning every camera and lens.
So someone who is described as "Olympus America's DSLR product manager" is really a rep, perhaps isn't employed by Olympus, works with marketing, and probably doesn't know much about Olympus cameras and lenses? Hmmm!
Please don't twist my words. Of course he is a rep if he is employed by Olympus at all. I don't know that, and unless you know that better, neither do you. Never the less, a rep is short for representative, he represents Olympus Japan in USA. The word "rep" is not a derogatory term in my vocabulary, which it seems to be in yours. I was also not the one who said he does not know much about Olympus cameras, I say he does not have to know everything concerning cameras and lenses. I'd in fact expect him not to be the camera expert , but work with marketing issues on a larger, global scale, not the small details. I'd expect him to be an economical and marketing expert, not a camera expert.

Anyway, I am not interested to discuss his merits since I have no idea about him, I don’t even know if he exists for real or if this is just a bluff. I trust he is what the article said he is, but honestly, I don’t really care.
--
My Nikon 16-85mm album:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1336313410/albums/16-85

My blog:
http://www.olyflyer.blogspot.com/
 
Except among a strangely large number of Olympus users.

I have to say that I'm amused by the number of Oly users who seem to think that mirrors. prisms and shutters are the "now and forever" of high end photography.
Nobody has said or implied that. There is nothing "wrong" with the OVF. Nobody complains about the OVF on the E-3. EVFs still have a long way to go before they can compete with OVFs.
I'm actually snickering at the folks who are claiming in this thread that they will likely switch to Nikon or Canon. How odd to see people willing to march into oblivion for the sake of their mechanical shutters and flapping mirrors. Seriously...do people ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the current 50+ year old SLR layout has a future?
It has lasted 50 years for a reason. OVFs do not require mechanical shutters or flapping mirrors. Yes that is the standard, but there are other options. Pellicle mirrors have been around since the 50's. It appears (rumored) that Sony has chosen to go with the fixed pellicle mirror in the new A-7xx. Of course the Sony sensor can afford the 2/3 drop in ev the pellicle mirror imposes and still produce clean 1600 images. Olympus still can not compete with the Sony/Canon sensors.

"March to oblivion?" are you being a little mellow dramatic or just off your medication?
As was pointed out in the interview, current DSLRs are basically old designs with a sensor where the film was.

Olympus will likely be the FIRST to go with an all electronic system...and some people think they will be the last? People think that Nikon and Canon will still make conventional SLR styled cameras 10 years after Oly goes electronic? Really?
Olympus has done a lot of things that other more successful companies have not done. Olympus got out of the SLR business once already because they could not compete. Olympus still needs to prove that they can.
What next...computers without floppy drives? Replacing VHS tapes with discs? Watches that use batteries instead of springs? No way.

The truth is, many of these people would be more comfortable with Canon and Nikon. Olympus is an innovator. Canon and Nikon stick with the safest design possible until they are forced to change. If you hate change, Canon and Nikon are the cameras for you.
The E-1 and E-3 were innovative cameras.... Everything thing else in the line is pretty much recycled. Even the design of the latest EP series is taken from an old camera. The sensor/IBIS come from the E620. How innovative is the fickle (sometimes great.... sometimes not) AF system in my E-3. Why is it not consistent from lens to lens?

Canon and Nikon stick to what is safe.... Like high IQ and designs that working professionals need. The 5D was innovative. The 5D created a new class of camera. The 5DMKII started the HD video craze and has been a top seller. The Nikon D700 and D3 series have set new standards for low light photography and offer the best AF system available. There is a lot of really impressive innovation in the industry...... Olympus does have the best "dust buster" though.
 
Except among a strangely large number of Olympus users.

I have to say that I'm amused by the number of Oly users who seem to think that mirrors. prisms and shutters are the "now and forever" of high end photography.

I'm actually snickering at the folks who are claiming in this thread that they will likely switch to Nikon or Canon. How odd to see people willing to march into oblivion for the sake of their mechanical shutters and flapping mirrors. Seriously...do people ACTUALLY BELIEVE that the current 50+ year old SLR layout has a future?
The OVF actually works and many people like it, That the concept has lived on for 50 yrs is enough evidence of a how good it is. Unless someone has a EVF already developed to match the speed & quality OVF ( as Marc pointed out ), they shouldn't shouting out loud about it.
As was pointed out in the interview, current DSLRs are basically old designs with a sensor where the film was.
Fair point, but unless Oly has a better idea, ( I hope ) they don't talk about innovation and blank statements that make no sense. I understand, all this thread stemmed from a possible speculation lets hope it is not true.
Olympus will likely be the FIRST to go with an all electronic system...and some people think they will be the last? People think that Nikon and Canon will still make conventional SLR styled cameras 10 years after Oly goes electronic? Really?

What next...computers without floppy drives? Replacing VHS tapes with discs? Watches that use batteries instead of springs? No way.

The truth is, many of these people would be more comfortable with Canon and Nikon. Olympus is an innovator. Canon and Nikon stick with the safest design possible until they are forced to change. If you hate change, Canon and Nikon are the cameras for you.
I got into Olympus due to the concept of 4/3 & innovation of a complete digital system about 6 months ago. If they want reinvent this concept again and want to innovate again - then the customers are just paying for the research involved in the innovation & never get to see the ultimate end product which is fully matured. 4/3 definitely is a concept that can mature further. As many have pointed out, nothing wrong in putting in the imaging pipeline of the EPs into a flagship and/or even E-6XX for starters. They probably don't have the resources to replenish the current production lines and also the m4/3 customers beat the 4/3 customers in terms of volume hence we are not going to see intermediate cameras anytime soon.
  • Vidya
 
However, OVF has some significant drawbacks as well.

It gives little to no info compared to flexibility of an EVF, in very dim lighting it's pretty much useless while EVF might be better, even with noise due to signal amplification.

Also, EVF can be magnified when using manual focus, it's bigger than OVF, has no problems with dust particles since it's a sealed mechanicsm, it's infinitely more flexible, quieter, less prone to malfunction, cheaper, takes less space and is much lighter.

I have no doubt EVF will succeed OVF, and currently it's not as good in some areas, but it's constantly developing and improving while OVF is stagnating because there's little or no room to improve.

BTW, average human reaction time for college students is 190ms for visual stimulus, so that story about requiring "speed of light" is silly.
 
What's to stop the "blackout" from being refined down to a "flick" that we barely notice?

--
John Krumm
Juneau, AK
 
Seems to me Oly is being short sighted with this sort of statement.

First off, when CDAF takes over the 4/3's segment what do I do with all my current lenses that were designed for phase detect AF. Am I supposed to go through an upgrade to take advantage of the latest bodies?

Second, so they want to tell me I don't need more than 14MP? Well maybe I do or don't, but their competitors aren't being quite so paternalistic about what do or don't need.

Third, why do I need to wait two years for the next camera body? So there's going to be nothing in the meanwhile?

I've been a loyal Olympus user since the E-10, with an E-1, E-330, and E-3. I understand where they are heading, but seem to be doing their best to scare me off the train.

Sheesh.

--
Jeff
 
From another speculative article at zone 10:
"Imagine for a moment the ability to utilise, in a single instant, multiple shutter speeds across the same image frame, and simultaneously, produce variable effects of and on the subject, the foreground and background. Imagine further that when you do that, you can now perfectly prevent the highlights from getting blown out while you retain all the details in the shadowed areas – all these because you can designate the shutter to vary its exposure speed across the different areas of the image frame. If you can grasp all these, you’d understand the significance of what is to come. And soon."
wow.

--
'If you ever get a camera up your bum, it'll probably be an Olympus' - nomix
'pictures not photos' - myself realising my username is wrong
'© Douglas Symon' - applies to all the photographs I post
http://cherrytreeblog.talepictures.com/
Olympus as teacher...
Four Thirds forum for Finnish speakers http://neljakolmasosaa.dakuva.net/
 

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