Bad news. Hard to like other system colors though. Not to forget the dust problems. Olympus what have you done!
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"Olympus E system mirrorless in two years. Probably."
- Thread starter ginsbu
- Start date
I for one believe it's a way forward, and Oly is just waiting for technology to mature enough to put it into their flagship model.
So, E-5 could be like this:
Imagine this:
Panasonic had lots of it checked when it released G1 in 2008), so 2 or 3 years later it's not unrealistic to expect some of that from Oly.
So, E-5 could be like this:
Imagine this:
- Good next get Panny sensor with 14-15mpix and with IQ better than today's best APS-C and close to FF cameras
- Electronic shutter meaning completely silent camera, no mirror flap, no noise etc, high frame rates
- Great HD video capability (stereo mic, external input, high framerate recording)
- newest EVF which is bigger even than FF cameras (if GH1 can have EVF almost as big as 1Ds Mk3 - E5 could have it even bigger) with live histogram and detailed info on it.
- 3" or bigger flip LCD
- New CDAF or some other AF technology which is evolving all the time, and will eventually catch up with PDAF.
- Medium sized weather proof magnesium body at half a kilo
- Full wireless flash control with no need for on board flash to fire
Panasonic had lots of it checked when it released G1 in 2008), so 2 or 3 years later it's not unrealistic to expect some of that from Oly.
The comments about leaving 4/3rds seem really silly and over the top. He specifically said that the current line of lenses will continue to work, and isn't it obvious that Oly will not move away from PDAF until they can at least match it with CDAF? I'm a little surprised at the two year time frame, but it seems to me that this is just a reflection of the inevitable march of technology. EVFs are nearly as good as OVFs already, and have several key advantages even now. Really, the OVF and mirror box is outdated, analogue technology - it's only ever been a matter of when they'll die out, not if.
It seems to me that Oly's strategy will give us uniquely flexible cameras - when we need to go small and light, we can whack on a micro 4/3rds lens, but when we need maximum optical quality, we can use a full 4/3rds lens. It does seem as though the greater back flange distance of full 4/3rds allows greater optical quality (and I would say the current full 4/3rds kit lenses are already small and light enough anyway).
It seems to me that Oly's strategy will give us uniquely flexible cameras - when we need to go small and light, we can whack on a micro 4/3rds lens, but when we need maximum optical quality, we can use a full 4/3rds lens. It does seem as though the greater back flange distance of full 4/3rds allows greater optical quality (and I would say the current full 4/3rds kit lenses are already small and light enough anyway).
So I can say to my customers "I have a Leica DSLR" - and THey will probably then think "Leica S2" or so ... hehe ... and Leica will probably never ever again make a non-medium-format-DSLR if Fourthirds abandons the mirror ...
I will take my Digilux-3 out fpr my walk today, just to see if it still works
regards
Martin
My Gear is in my Profile
I will take my Digilux-3 out fpr my walk today, just to see if it still works
regards
Martin
My Gear is in my Profile
Some of us really like optical viewfinders.
I can't imagine composing on a LCD screen (EVF) while photographing and editing it on another LCD screen at home.
Thats in addition to watching LCD TV for leisure and a LCD computer screen at work.
With the way things are going with nobody printing photos out we're probably going to view the finished photos on an LCD too?!?
So please don't abandon the optical viewfinder.
I can't imagine composing on a LCD screen (EVF) while photographing and editing it on another LCD screen at home.
Thats in addition to watching LCD TV for leisure and a LCD computer screen at work.
With the way things are going with nobody printing photos out we're probably going to view the finished photos on an LCD too?!?
So please don't abandon the optical viewfinder.
SteB
Veteran Member
What I am pretty certain about is that Panasonic are aiming for global, electronic solid state, non-mechanical shutters - because they publicly stated this a while back. What they said implied that they thought it unlikely one would be ready until at least another year or so.
However, the source you linked to is actually very misleading. This article contains numerous unsupported claims that were not derived from the main source their article was about. The sensor they referred to was an experimental test bed design a long way from any production design. Also the author of this article has gained a very bad reputation for making these unsubstantiated claims and has been banned from forums because of this. There is no basis at all for believing that the sensor design they referred to will appear in an actual camera in the near future.
Ted C.
Veteran Member
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davidrm
Veteran Member
I tend to agree. Massive foot in mouth error there. My own plans for imminent purchase of 2 high priced Olympus lenses has just gone on hold. No way am I going to settle for an EVF.
But I really do wonder what the alternative is. I just want a high performance still image camera with traditional controls that I don't have to read a 300 page manual to get on top of, and a quality range of lenses. I don't want gadgets. I don't want video.
Looks like I'm out of the frame as far as marketing departments are concerned...
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But I really do wonder what the alternative is. I just want a high performance still image camera with traditional controls that I don't have to read a 300 page manual to get on top of, and a quality range of lenses. I don't want gadgets. I don't want video.
Looks like I'm out of the frame as far as marketing departments are concerned...
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Why not?
43rds promised some advantages which were never fully explored by it because smallest APS-C cameras are close to size of smallest 43rds, and it's mainly due to mirror box and prism/pentamirror design requirements while suffering from small viewfinders which are physically limited by sensor format.
Now, a potential EVF 43rsds camera has a lot of things going for it - it can be fully armored/weather proof, have huge VF and be fast while costing as much as mid range SLR.
Or you could have E-620 stlye body with all the goodies and a big VF for 500$.
The main advantage is of course the glass and Oly doesn't have nearly as good glass on m43 as they do in 43rds.
Ok, you could use it with adapter, but Oly is not going to sell you high-grade or pro bodies and then tell you "go buy an adapter to use our good glass with your camera"
I see m43 as a evolution of a compact rather than SLR, and most if not all m43 cameras look and feel out of place with anything bigger than a pancake lens attached on them.
That's why I think there's room for regular modernized versions of 43rds, and that micro43 will unlikely replace "proper" SLR cameras because good lenses are generally too big to fit onto tiny bodies and making larger bodies in m43 format makes little sense.
Sergey_Green
Veteran Member
Did not look so bad to me,
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=32503914
I believe it was you I responded to back then.
Also was answered here (about the dust),
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=32603792
Nothing yet, but they could be on their way. Although as Rriley already said this whole excitement kind of makes very little sense to me. But who can know for sure.
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Josegaut
Veteran Member
that I don't think Olympus is managed by a bunch of idiots.
Lot of FU&D here... why not simply "wait and see" ? I have a good camera and good lenses, and plenty of time to see what the future will bring to us.
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Lot of FU&D here... why not simply "wait and see" ? I have a good camera and good lenses, and plenty of time to see what the future will bring to us.
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olyflyer
Veteran Member
No, they won't. It's not only the refresh rate, it is also the resolution. Anyway, the human eye has a very high refresh rate, much higher than the ~30fps used in video. Even if you could do such high fps, how would you manage AF and data transfer to memory? What's the point of high fps if the images are out of focus anyway and not saveable at the same speed.
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elfenone
Leading Member
Reading the entire thread there are very insightful and positive posts by contributors who are highly respected and very knowledgeable in this area sighting that this has been in the works for some time and could very possibly be included in GH2. It might be good to read the thread and the contributions of the respected contributors.
I think Panasonic will without doubt launch the technology that see's Olympus move to mirrorless E system. Panny makes the sensors, and as we have seen no Oly camera to date carries the GH1 sensor. So I'm certain we'll see any new technology in Panasonic first. Just my opinion.
I think Panasonic will without doubt launch the technology that see's Olympus move to mirrorless E system. Panny makes the sensors, and as we have seen no Oly camera to date carries the GH1 sensor. So I'm certain we'll see any new technology in Panasonic first. Just my opinion.
Rriley
Veteran Member
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now see how nutz this is
although the mirrorbox would be gone, the space would still be there, the space makes the size the same...
err huh...
it also lacks AF performance and has EVF lag
perhaps you hadnt noticed that mFT with an EVF is at this point more expensive. I can agree that when the system is more pervasive EVF will be cheaper, but we arent there yet, and in any event I dont see the savings you nominate
then why not simply put Zuiko's on an mFT, what would be the difference ?
again,....why ?Ok, you could use it with adapter, but Oly is not going to sell you high-grade or pro bodies and then tell you "go buy an adapter to use our good glass with your camera"
yet you began this along the lines of 'small'
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I ought to have read more carefully...
And it's true what was pointed out later in this thread that the E-10 did have an OVF... so maybe this isn't as bad as I first thougt. Time will tell I suppose....
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And it's true what was pointed out later in this thread that the E-10 did have an OVF... so maybe this isn't as bad as I first thougt. Time will tell I suppose....
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Cheers,
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Cheers,
Mick
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TrapperJohn
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Pretty darn sharp, and that's the micro version.
Imagine one without the size constraints of the little clip on.
Imagine one without the size constraints of the little clip on.
olyflyer
Veteran Member
No not close to FF, but yes probably better than today’s APS-C. On the other hand, you should compare it with what will be available at the time of the release, not what's available today.
No. Electronic shutter won't give you a completely silent camera. There is still noise from the AF motor and the aperture. No mirror flap, it is true, but not soundless. Frame rate is also dependant on many other factors, not only the shutter. It is not the shutter speed or the mirror which is limiting the E-3 from having higher then 5fps.
How great the video is has not much to do with electronic shutter. Every video capable DSLR has electronic shutter for the video.
Size is not everything. Having a too large VF image introduces new problems for a great many people, so larger is not always better.
Concerning EVF and the future, I believe a more realistic view is:
"There's no doubt that electronic viewfinders aren't going to replace optical reflex finders for all applications in the near future (the display gets quite noisy and the refresh rate drops to a rather 'jerky' level in very low light, and it will inevitably impact on shutter lag), but this is a real move in the right direction - it's perfectly possible to check critical focus using the EVF, and there seems to be very little video lag."
(Quote from: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicdmcgh1/page4.asp )
In other words, I don't think Olympus EVF will be better than an OVF, not even the OVFs of the consumer models.
Again, bigger is not always better. There is nothing wrong with the 2.7" other than the resolution. I think they should aim to improve that many times over. Everything below 1MP will be just mediocre in a pro camera.
Yes, that's definitely necessary. Oly CDAF is quite good, but even that could be improved. PDAF could also be improved but with an EVF they have to look at a different solution. There is no point in having a mirror for the focus, it would introduce more acoustic noise, but PDAF through the actual image sensor is something new and maybe coming as well to Olympus.
Light body and heavy lenses isn’t a very good match. Weight gives stability, especially if you do a lot of hand held photography. Even on a tripod, weight is an advantage. Of course, for the person who is holding the camera, weight is tiring, but I think half kilo is too light. Of course, there is always an option of battery grip...
Yes. A dongle should be included in the box to be able to use the current FL flashes with it as well.
Well, why not impossible, I would not call it realistic. I think the pros are more interested in:
- Accurate, fast and reliable S-AF and C-AF
- High fps with reliable AF
- Real and working 3-D tracking, like it is demonstrated in the E-3 DVD
- Better highlight DR (no clipping) and true in camera "smart" DR handling
- Better high ISO
- Higher MP (15-20MP)
- 100% pentaprism OVF with at least 1x magnification.
- Ability to continue using present lenses without the need of adapters
- CDAF with all available lenses
Yes, some of that will definitely become true. But if there is ever going to be a next generation E-x it will be based on conventional prism and mirror. I doubt Olympus could manage to keep their present pro market if they suddenly will tell everyone: "Sorry guys get some new lenses if you want to use the next E-x. We have just converted your old f/2.8 and f/2 constant aperture lenses into paper weight." They got away with one stunt like that before, but I don’t think they can get away once again.
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I've just been an Oly owner for about 6mo when I decided Oly over the G1 -- did I make the right decision?? .... If this news does nothing else it has put my upgrade purchases on hold for 6 months and I suspect a few others will now put their purchasing plans on hold. ... I don't understand this anouncement without a product in hand. (The EP series is interesting but certainly not a replacement for the E systems.)
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