Do you still prefer quality primes for 4/ 3rds...?

I came from using to Canon 5D to Oly E30. While the L primes were nice, but typically on a trip I had to bring multiples of primes: 24L, 35L, 85LII, 135L just to get the focal length I want. I much prefer using quality zooms instead. Less lens changes also means less missing some critical moments.

Some may argue that a prime is lighter than a zoom, and much prefer bring just one light prime over a heavier zoom. But most of the time I find that, especially during a long trip, you can't just bring one or two primes to cover the whole trip. So zooms definitely have their place over primes.
 
Dreaming is free. Sure, I want more primes, and Nikon just showed us that it's possible (and that we need to get real about the cost).
Well if you're wondering about the cost in general Canon has a fleet of premium primes for reference :

135mm f/2 L - 1000$
85mm f/1.2 L - 2000$
50mm f/1.2 L - 1500$
35mm f/1.4 L - 1400$
24mm f/1.4 L - 1700$
14mm f/2.8 L - 2100$
so going back to Canon APSC
the 35/1.4 would make a fast normal, but be 56/2.4 in equivalence
or 24/1.4 would make a 38/2.4
for a fast wide? 14/2.8, but it wont be fast anymore at 22/4.8

while the solutions are at least there, well sorta.....kinda pricey isnt it.
That $3500 could buy a FF in the firstplace!

bottom line, APSC is the real competition to 4/3rds
yet practically doesnt appear to be any better fixed for truly fast glass

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Wait a sec, what's with the equivalence nonsense ? f/1.4 is f/1.4 is f/1.4 :P

It's hard to imagine a lens that can really replicate the look of either the 35mm f/1.4 L or 85mm f/1.2 L on either APSC or 4/3. You'd need f/0.5-f/0.7 or what ?

They are expensive, but their wide open performance doesn't compare to your average canikon 50mm f/1.4. they are sharp enough to slice stone wide open on FF. As for the look, if you really want it, nothing can replicate the wide angle shallow DoF of a 24 or 35mm f/1.4 on FF or the paper thin milky DoF of an 85mm f/1.2 for portraits. A 35L+85L can buy you a serious FF body, but on the other hand, if someone was to make their DoF and FoV equivalents on APSC or 4/3 I'm sure the price would be enough to buy you a dozen E3s or D300s, not just one... so for the look, FF is the cheapest option in this particular case
 
Wait a sec, what's with the equivalence nonsense ? f/1.4 is f/1.4 is f/1.4 :P

It's hard to imagine a lens that can really replicate the look of either the 35mm f/1.4 L or 85mm f/1.2 L on either APSC or 4/3. You'd need f/0.5-f/0.7 or what ?
well, at its core, thats what im saying. But it poses this question, why is it we are persecuted with this DoF equivalence all the time, and APSC, who are our real competitors, are not...
They are expensive, but their wide open performance doesn't compare to your average canikon 50mm f/1.4. they are sharp enough to slice stone wide open on FF.
and usually a whole lot softer on APSC
As for the look, if you really want it, nothing can replicate the wide angle shallow DoF of a 24 or 35mm f/1.4 on FF or the paper thin milky DoF of an 85mm f/1.2 for portraits. A 35L+85L can buy you a serious FF body, but on the other hand, if someone was to make their DoF and FoV equivalents on APSC or 4/3 I'm sure the price would be enough to buy you a dozen E3s or D300s, not just one... so for the look, FF is the cheapest option in this particular case
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hard to say, as i don't own any APSC, let alone any high pixel density one but that mantra works for all lenses.

On the other hand, realistically speaking, I seriously doubt that anyone willing to shell out that kind of money for extreme DoF and Speed ever going to mount them on an APSC. That would be both dumb waste and a sin! :)
 
I am perfectly content for Olympus to abandon the "paper-thin DOF" crowd to full-frame systems. It's a certain style of photography, and it calls for a certain sort of equipment, and 4/3 ain't it. No way to change that without scrapping the whole system and starting over with a bigger sensor.

But you can certainly get a reasonable amount of subject-background separation on 4/3. Personally, I like using these high-resolution sensors and sharp lenses to capture detail in more than a tiny bit of the frame, and am just fine with the greater 4/3 DOF.
 
horses for courses. Seriously now, the only prime that i'd like to see (more so in m4/3 then 4/3 mount) would be a very small and decently priced 7 or 8mm f/4 or f/5.6 (rectilinear, not fisheye). That plus an Oly PEN would make the perfect travel kit.
 
Nikon just released a fantastic prime 24mm 1.4.
2200 usd
2150 euros
This is serious money.
Many on this forum asked olympus to built quality primes for 4/ 3rds. Many people are saying 4/ 3rds lacks primes.

Do you still prefer olympus to built high quality primes when you know they would cost around 2000,=? Would you still buy one?

Or do you prefer a SHG zoom at f2.0 that gives you a handful of primes at the same price?
arghhh , Nothing worse than a biased thread that starts with a dishonest argument

who said that a olympus 12mm ( 24mm equivalent in 35mm terms) needed to have a max aperture of 1.4 ? and therefore cost so much money
let's stick with the FACTS if you don't mind

Nikon has now this ultra bright 24mm because it does LIKE EVERY DSLR MAJOR BRAND BUT OLYMPUS offer a regular 2.8/24mm

only OLYMPUS had decided to ignore a reality of the market that the 24mm FOV is becoming a standard for landscapes and photojournalism

and to reply to your second BS argument , there is no 2.0 zoom that gives you what you need in primes at the same price
NOBODY for instance would need all the FOV of a 2/14-35mm zoom

and a 2/14 AND a 2/35 mm could be had for less money AND less weight than the 14-35mm

this is why most photographers I know would NOT consider olympus is because of the lens line-up
Harold

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Some people might disagree, particularly people who need very fast apertures in focal lengths other than 24/1.8, 30/1.4, and 50/1.4.
Not everyone is interested to buy Sigma lenses

. Some people have a camera, a 12-60, and a 50-200, and that's all they'll ever want.

TRUE but so is the reverse . Give me a 2.8/12mm a 2/20mm and a 1. 7 or 2/41mm and this is all I ever need from OLympus

and with this I would have less money to spend and less weight that to carry the 2 zoom lenses you mention

Harold

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Interesting question. Back in my Nikon film days purchased a 24/2.8 and an 85/1.8 for about $350 each (inflation is one thing but this is sort of ridiculous). Is the new Nikon 24/1.4 worth $2200? Guess for some folks - maybe for professionals - but not for me.
Well you are in luck the 24mm f2.8m is still $349 so counting for inflation it is actually cheaper

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/66980-GREY/Nikon_1919_Wide_Angle_AF_Nikkor.html

Alas the 85 f/1.8 has shot up to $424 which with inflation is still much the same

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/84151-GREY/Nikon_1931_Telephoto_AF_Nikkor_85mm.html
 
... and doesn't cost anywhere near this price. All it needed was a focus limiter (or faster focus) to make it a great all purpose lens.

Pity Olympus didn't set up their cameras to have user adjustable electronic focus limiters on their bodies.

Now that would have been innovative and very hard for the competition to copy ... but too late now.
 
It is interesting that this discussion is happening now. Over the weekend, I decided to try mounting my trusty OM lenses on a Canon 5D. I wanted to see how usable the combination was and if the combination was a viable alternative to my current set up and if the lenses performed well enough on a FF with 24megapixel sensor. The current OM lenses that I have and tested with the 5D are the 21/3.5, 24/2.8. 24/3.5 shift, 35/2.0. 55/1.2, 90/2.0, 100/2.8, 180/2.8 and 300/4.5.

The long and short of it, most of it was short since I didn't have that much time to tests everything I wanted to with every lens and I have not views the images on a large screen, there was little vignetting on most lenses when used wide open. If there was any, it was not visually important. The biggest problem was the CA wide open with the tele's. This teneded to improve with stopping down. Curiously, the 100/2.8 performed better than the 90/2.0. The 55/1.2 held its own, but again, I think I just did not evaluate it enough. The wides is where the difference lies.

Even with my less than stellar non 2.0 superwide lenses, the biggest difference that I noticed with the wide OM on a FF sensor was the uncanny ability to ISOLATE the subject. The 21mm could do it, the 24mm could do it and the 35mm could do it. The bokeh also looked great, but then again, I need to see it on a large screen. I have the 12-60 on the e-system, and it just could not isolate the subject like my OMZ's on a FF. When it comes to physical size, the set up was smaller with the OMZ with the 5D. If the 5D were smaller, it would be the perfect combination.

I then began to think about the 14-35 DZ. But the price and size is an issue.

After going thru this exercise, I have come to this conclusion,

1. There is no replacing the ability of a fast sub 2.0 wide, normal and short tele lenses in isolating your subject matter. I don't now if the art filters is Olympus' attempt to circumvent this issue. If it is, it is lame. I don't know if this is a marketing thing, and that the current thinking is the same effect of isolating the subject can be obtained thru digital manipulation runs counter to the the notion of what a photographer is. We might as well just be computer manipulators.

2. looking at the lens line up of Olympus, I think they have to go back to their roots. Small, reliable, optically superior and fast. Currently, in my mind, they have one, ok, maybe two of the four. Reliable and optically superior. They have to get the small and fast back in their line up in the HG or SHG where it really counts. No more apologies that the 50mm/2.0 is a great lens and the like. (I have not used that lens yet, but it appears to have it's limitations with the focusing system) They need a set of fast, as in sub 2.0 aperture 12mm, 17mm, 25mm and 40mm which are great wide open. Not this usable wide open and great at 4.0 or 5.6 stuff, which I seem to see with the Canon L and Nikon lenses. They should be great at the widest aperture and excellent at 4.0 and 5.6. An accurate and fast focusing system is a must. IS is not an issue.

3. Canon lenses tend to suffer the same fate of Olympus, maybe worse for their cropped lenses. Their lenses are really geared for the FF system, with a price to match. Nikon seems to be going down the same road.

If Olympus can couple these lenses with an even better camera which is compact, then their system will be true to their Raison d'être. If Olympus can just design this 4 lenses, it will turn their system around dramatically. To a certain degree, I agree that their design philosophy has gotten lost in the shuffle.

If you are interested, I can post some of the samples of the 5D OMZ combination.
 
I think Olympus can build very high quality primes for a lot less money. The 50mm f/2.0 is one of the sharpest pieces of glass made for any system and it only costs 1/4 as much as the new Nikon glass.
The new Nikon is a 24mm f/1.4 lens how much do you think a 12mm f/1.4 Olympus prime would be. There are a number of macro lenses for FF around the 90-105mm focal length that can be had for much the same price though the Nikon 105VR is around the $800 mark and they all deliver pretty good results.
Why Olympus has not produced more fast primes is good question. They are easier to develop and cost less to produce than the SGH zooms. I own 2 SHG lenses and I am waiting for a quality 43mm f/1.4 (or faster) and a 70mm f/1.4 (or faster). If the HG 50mm f/2 ($500.00) is a good indicator then I expect SGH primes to run close to $1,000 a piece. My 85L for my Canon was almost $2,000.
I also have the 85L and again if Olympus made a 42.5mm f/1.2 lens of the same quality it would be at least as expensive . The 85L is a pretty specialist lens and I would wager it sells in fairly low numbers due to size weight and mostly cost ,so I do not think with a far smaller user base Olympus could make a similar model for any less money, with the far larger Canon user base allowing for so at least some economies of scale. I have the 50mm macro and it delivers great results and i would far prefer Olympus made a delection of f/2 prime lenses to keep size down as this is one of the main strengths of Olympus. And I would certainly be keen for a selection of fairly small lenses that could be easily carried.
Jim
 
The new Nikon is a 24mm f/1.4 lens how much do you think a 12mm f/1.4 Olympus prime would be. T
don't know and honestly don't care .a 1.2 max aperture is NOT a good idea for olympus

there are few people who are interested in that big of an opening for a wide angle lens

in order to sell a lot , Olympus needs to come with a relatively compact one ( not pancake like but not too big)
a 2 or 2.8 would be just fine as long as the max aperture is fullu usable
Why Olympus has not produced more fast primes is good question. They are easier to develop and cost less to produce than the SGH zooms. I own 2 SHG lenses and I am waiting for a quality 43mm f/1.4 (or faster) and a 70mm f/1.4 (or faster). If the HG 50mm f/2 ($500.00) is a good indicator then I expect SGH primes to run close to $1,000 a piece. My 85L for my Canon was almost $2,000.
I also have the 85L and again if Olympus made a 42.5mm f/1.2 lens of the same quality it would be at least as expensive .
Maybe but gain who cares . I know that for a 40 or 42mm people are going to ask larger opening because so MANY PEOPLE HERE are convinced that you need to have so much blur when making a portrait ( This is NOT true in most cases but I won't try this here)
in any case a 1.4 or 1.7 would be bright enough

Better to have a 1,7 usable at full aperture than the traditional resolution associated with any lens at 1.2
Harold

--
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http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit
 
They need a set of fast, as in sub 2.0 aperture 12mm, 17mm, 25mm and 40mm which are great wide open. Not this usable wide open and great at 4.0 or 5.6 stuff, which I seem to see with the Canon L and Nikon lenses.
I beg to differ, their 300-400$ moderately fast lenses might not be "great" wide open (though there are many exceptions), but the premium speed primes ARE mind blowing wide open. You don't pay 1-2k for f/1.2-f/1.4 only to get "usable" results. So forget that misconception and stop extrapolating the 50 1.4's performance across the entire range.
3. Canon lenses tend to suffer the same fate of Olympus, maybe worse for their cropped lenses. Their lenses are really geared for the FF system, with a price to match. Nikon seems to be going down the same road.
I beg to differ, you can get a mint SH 5D for just under 1000euros, or a new 5D Mk2 for about 2000euro. That might not be the cheapest, but compared to the price of the L primes, that's not much more then lunch money. IF you can afford to shell 3000-5000euro on such a lens kit, you should have no problem affording a FF. They're not in the upper 3k anymore really and going down, so that's slowly becoming a moot point...
 
The new Nikon is a 24mm f/1.4 lens how much do you think a 12mm f/1.4 Olympus prime would be. T
don't know and honestly don't care .a 1.2 max aperture is NOT a good idea for olympus

there are few people who are interested in that big of an opening for a wide angle lens

in order to sell a lot , Olympus needs to come with a relatively compact one ( not pancake like but not too big)
a 2 or 2.8 would be just fine as long as the max aperture is fullu usable
Why Olympus has not produced more fast primes is good question. They are easier to develop and cost less to produce than the SGH zooms. I own 2 SHG lenses and I am waiting for a quality 43mm f/1.4 (or faster) and a 70mm f/1.4 (or faster). If the HG 50mm f/2 ($500.00) is a good indicator then I expect SGH primes to run close to $1,000 a piece. My 85L for my Canon was almost $2,000.
I also have the 85L and again if Olympus made a 42.5mm f/1.2 lens of the same quality it would be at least as expensive .
Maybe but gain who cares . I know that for a 40 or 42mm people are going to ask larger opening because so MANY PEOPLE HERE are convinced that you need to have so much blur when making a portrait ( This is NOT true in most cases but I won't try this here)
in any case a 1.4 or 1.7 would be bright enough

Better to have a 1,7 usable at full aperture than the traditional resolution associated with any lens at 1.2
Harold
Well , I am glad you took the time to respond to tell me you don't care :) , as to resolution etc the Canon L is centrally very good from wide open and as the key objective is isolation of subject by limiting depth of field this is what really matters.

For this purpose extra depth of field is actually a disadvantage and whilst one can certainly take effective portraits with any lens and any aperture there are good reasons why so many photographers prefer the fast short teles for this purpose, and all the major makers have made fast lenses in these focal lengths for decades.
Jim
 

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