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JJJRRR768

JJJRRR768

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Are some folks just making up that the GXR seems to be failing in all (or even any) markets? I would think not but what do I know, I bought one so maybe I am biased. Just curious of this is an issue for Ricoh, sure hope not.
 
I think Ricoh is at a hard spot right now. Their innovation is good, but it would be much more appealing if m4/3 didnt exist. Price wise, theres a clear advantage for m4/3, so that leaves us Ricoh fans or semi-pros or even pros who want a better sensor than m4/3(A12) but then these people want DSRL AF performance to pay 1500usd for a camera with a lens. It seems a lot like Sigma SD cameras, the vast majority of the buyers are the ones who bought their previous cameras, no one else, specially because they are expensive. Myself, i would buy easily a Ricoh GXR+S10, but i dont have the money and worse i want a GX200 replacement for at least iso 800 decent using. That leaves me only with the canon S90 choice....
Joel Stern said:
Are some folks just making up that the GXR seems to be failing in all (or even any) markets? I would think not but what do I know, I bought one so maybe I am biased. Just curious of this is an issue for Ricoh, sure hope not.
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Im still a mediocere photographer but im very aware of that....
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Carlos Roncatti Bomfim
 
... from my perspective the manufacturers have chosen to cut the pie into very small pieces and they are not such that 'taking two' helps. M4/3 is a plus from dslr for some, but not a pocket cam for my needs. The flood of small sensor new cams is mind-boggling, but most not for me. I value my available 'photo' $$ and will likely hold off or buy missing dslr lenses (Macro, wide zoom) until the dust clears. Just watching several Forums seems to show how fragmented the market is ... for the 'masses' and that is where most of the money is.

Ricoh has some great products and ideas, but they are tumbling around in a tub into which new competing possibilities are tossed in almost daily.

Fortunately, many of the new goodies are capable tools and should be worth the investment.

Is Ricoh (GXR) falling? Maybe in absolute numbers, maybe relative to close competitors, maybe both. The key is .... are they making money? .. and pricing suggests that they probably are.

Tom B
 
I raised this question myself in the Ricoh forum and got blasted a bit for it. I have purchased the camera with both modules but I am concerned that Ricoh has not responded to the issues that have been identified by me and others. It isn't the way to win praise and support for what is clearly a high end product. Further, unlike Leica, Ricoh doesn't have the large fanatical fan base that will overlook its shortcomings due to the cache of its brand name. As it sits today it is superior to the X1 in most ways but behind the 4/3rds offerings. It needs to position itself as the X1 killer due to its high price. It could accomplish this by doing two things. First, get out a firmware fix for the identified issues (many of the AF issues should be fixable in firmware and I don't mean matching GF1 speeds, which are unlikely) and second offer a 28mm or 35mm f2 pancake lens module with APS-C sensor. That would make it very hard for anyone except a die hard Leica fan to buy the X1 as the size, pocket-ability issue would then favor the Ricoh along with the flexibility to use other modules and an EVF and higher resolution LCD.
--
John
Visit my web gallery at:
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Comments and critiques welcome.
 
I'd say the GXR is something that is a niche market appeal if there ever was one. But hey, at least Ricoh are trying..and not just doing boring old same old same stuff many makers do.

On the other hand, I can't see this system taking off, I think they might have been better off making something a bit classy, like a serious range finder type camera, not a cheapo, but not silly wallet busting leica prices.

That's just my idea, I'm not sold on this modular concept.
 
barjohn said:
I raised this question myself in the Ricoh forum and got blasted a bit for it. I have purchased the camera with both modules but I am concerned that Ricoh has not responded to the issues that have been identified by me and others. It isn't the way to win praise and support for what is clearly a high end product. Further, unlike Leica, Ricoh doesn't have the large fanatical fan base that will overlook its shortcomings due to the cache of its brand name. As it sits today it is superior to the X1 in most ways but behind the 4/3rds offerings. It needs to position itself as the X1 killer due to its high price. It could accomplish this by doing two things. First, get out a firmware fix for the identified issues (many of the AF issues should be fixable in firmware and I don't mean matching GF1 speeds, which are unlikely) and second offer a 28mm or 35mm f2 pancake lens module with APS-C sensor. That would make it very hard for anyone except a die hard Leica fan to buy the X1 as the size, pocket-ability issue would then favor the Ricoh along with the flexibility to use other modules and an EVF and higher resolution LCD.
--
John
Visit my web gallery at:
http://www.barjohn.com/My Photographs/index.html
Comments and critiques welcome.
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Fully agree. I enjoy the GXR with A12. However, Ricoh should launch a fast, moderately wide lens module and address some quirks with firmware updates, to make the GXR the (almost) perfect compact high IQ solution.
 
It is interesting. I was in Samy's cameras in Santa Anna yesterday and I took the camera in to try and find the "perfect" carrying case that I could put on my belt and the salesman and a customer were admiring the camera and the salesman said he wished Samy's carried it. I let the customer take some shot including some ISO 3200 shots in the store and he was blown away with how clean the image looked.
--
John
Visit my web gallery at:
http://www.barjohn.com/My Photographs/index.html
Comments and critiques welcome.
 
I also heard about bad sales figures with GXR, but why bothers. I bought this camera about a month ago and now I have both the A12 and S10 camera units. I just enjoy using the GXR with the A12 camera units. I understand that there are lots of complaints with its slow focusing. However, as a amateur taking snap shots, I find no auto focus is fast enough (I haven't tried the super fast Nikon yet). One has to use zone focusing which is well handled with a GRD and GXR. I have been using a GRD I for four years already and I really like this camera. It is with me anywhere and everywhere. I have now retired this camera and use the GRD III instead. And it is a very capable camera though I miss a bit the signature of the original GRD. Before buying my GXR, I have bought an Olympus E-P1 and Panasonic G1 with various lenses. I have sold all of them for my GXR and I never regret since Ricoh is a much better camera. I miss the E-P1 a bit but the handling of G1 never pleases me. The recent release model of Olympus E-PL1 does not bring much promises to M3/4 either. However, we can still bet on the release of APS size sensor for a 28mm camera units from Ricoh. Isn't that perfect?
--
--
monoblocks
 
I have both modules and think the camera does great, feels great and it easy to take around. Smaller than the EP-1 in many ways, lighter too, and the lenses are to my eye just great. The focus is slow on the A12 but like another poster I am not a pro and this is a non issue. I think time will tell and we will see. I have a serious investment even though I got a very good price, but still I have a lot of money into this...do I like it, heaps. I also like (love) the GX100 I got for my daughter, to me the IQ for the low ISO I shoot is really wonderful and black and white is also great....cameras...always something new, always something we wish they would have done.

Thanks for all of the feedback.

J
 
yes the camera is wonderful, the GX300 S10 module is very very nice, the handling to me is great, and you know that was my concern. There were as many nay sayers to the M4/3 so we shall see, and this is a niche camera, only.

Hope you are well.
 
Only Ricoh knows what is important to Ricoh in terms of the GXR. All else is conjecture and hearsay. From what I understand, Ricoh's biggest market is japan, and I've not heard a peep about sales in Japan. They are not big in the US and reading through the Google-translated lines of recent DC Watch Impress interviews with GXR designers they don't really care about US sales. Icing on the cake, as they say.

I don't understand why everyone gets so worked up over sales or no sales. If the camera works for you, buy it. If it doesn't, don't buy it. Simple as that. It's not a perfect camera (the A12, that is), but in most respects it is an extremely competent camera. Ricoh will update the firmware. That is for sure. To the extent they can fix the AF issues remains to be seen, but they will try.

Frankly, I love it, and don't really care about global sales. It really works for me. I look for the right tool for the job. Every time I take the GXR and my Olympus E-P2 out for a photowalk I come away more and more impressed with the GXR/A12 and disappointed in the E-P2. I keep wanting to regain my love for the E-P2, but the GXR exposes its weaknesses. For what I shoot the GXR/A12 is a perfect camera, and beyond the pictures it takes it is compact, lightweight, tight, and easy and fun to use.

I read a recent editorial on SFGate.com about negativity in the US culture. Immediately following the announcement of the iPad there were so many negative commentaries. Immediately following Obama's recent speech on TV everyone was up in arms about why he hasn't solved all of the world's ills by now. I see a similar thing happening with the GXR. A few people want it to be perfect for their needs, and if it is not then they complain and fret over sales figures and predict Ricoh's demise.

Even if the A12 is the only GXR unit I ever own I could not be happier. Let others complain and grumble about the success or failure of the GXR. I'll be out taking pictures.
 
carlos roncatti said:
I think Ricoh is at a hard spot right now.
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Hello Joel , Hello Carlos

I read your post and I would like to say that NOBODY , yes even the "experts" on these forums " can predict what the sales of the new Ricoh system will be

first of all, I think only people at Ricoh know what market are their strongest one

The GXR is brand new . so new in fact that in some big European countries , main dealers have not received their samples

so any statement asserting that the camera is not selling or whatever is pure BS

I think at this stage only 3 observations can be made and they probably do NOT apply to ALL markets :

1/There might be some resistance on the price. Ricoh's are usually more tools than toys and do not necessarily have the same kind of purchase behavior than for the Panasonic and Olympus

2/The GXR is marketed as a system. At the present time , there is only two modules and only one lens for the larger sensor , which is the market most likely to invest that $ amount in the GXR system

3/ Ricoh has a narrower distribution channel than most other brands. A lot of sales are generated from word of mouth and on reviews on magazines and internet
There has not been many of that yet

Finally , even if people like to compare with the m4/3 rds , Ricoh does not have the same power of fire and I am pretty sure that their sales goals are not at the same level

I think a lot of the sales will depend on how quickly and how wisely Ricoh will choose and bring new modules to the market, especially on a Photokina year

Harold

so that leaves us Ricoh fans or semi-pros or even pros who want a better sensor than m4/3(A12) but then these people want DSRL AF performance to pay 1500usd for a camera with a lens.
NO there are many other reasons to choose the GXR over the m4/3
It seems a lot like Sigma SD cameras,
I suppose you meant DP cameras and No I don't agree

--
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andrewteee said:
Only Ricoh knows what is important to Ricoh in terms of the GXR. All else is conjecture and hearsay. From what I understand, Ricoh's biggest market is japan, and I've not heard a peep about sales in Japan. They are not big in the US and reading through the Google-translated lines of recent DC Watch Impress interviews with GXR designers they don't really care about US sales. Icing on the cake, as they say.
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Here you go . You could have taken the words out of my mouth
Andrewteee said:
I don't understand why everyone gets so worked up over sales or no sales. If the camera works for you, buy it. If it doesn't, don't buy it. Simple as that. It's not a perfect camera (the A12, that is), but in most respects it is an extremely competent camera. Ricoh will update the firmware. That is for sure. To the extent they can fix the AF issues remains to be seen, but they will try.
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I was to say that I agree 100% but no make that 200% :))
Andrewteee said:
Frankly, I love it, and don't really care about global sales. It really works for me. I look for the right tool for the job. Every time I take the GXR and my Olympus E-P2 out for a photowalk I come away more and more impressed with the GXR/A12 and disappointed in the E-P2. I keep wanting to regain my love for the E-P2, but the GXR exposes its weaknesses. For what I shoot the GXR/A12 is a perfect camera, and beyond the pictures it takes it is compact, lightweight, tight, and easy and fun to use.
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A post will common sense written all over it . How refreshing !!!
Thank you , thank you , thank you :)))))
Andrewteee said:
Even if the A12 is the only GXR unit I ever own I could not be happier. Let others complain and grumble about the success or failure of the GXR. I'll be out taking pictures.
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hey , don't forget to show us your best ones ;)
Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit
 
barjohn said:
I raised this question myself in the Ricoh forum and got blasted a bit for it.
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Not quite , you got blasted because you were complaining how Ricoh had not personally answered in a few days your PERSONAL opinion of what should have been made differemtly

. As it sits today it is superior to the X1 in most ways but behind the 4/3rds offerings.
so you say. it is not my opinion .

It needs to position itself as the X1 killer due to its high price.

No it does NOT. I find all of these statements that a camera has to or is going to KILL another camera quite ludicrous to be honest

I. That would make it very hard for anyone except a die hard Leica fan to buy the X1 as the size, pocket-ability issue would then favor the Ricoh along with the flexibility to use other modules and an EVF and higher resolution LCD.

and tell me how would YOU know. I have no interest in the X1 but can think of several reasons why someone would choose the X1 over the GXR

Please guys , let's enjoy the fact that we have more and more serious tools to make pictures and let's not try to second guess everyone else motivations for buying such and such camera
it begs the question : what's the point ?
Harold

--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit
 
Ive worked with sales for aprox. 10 years so when i make assertments about a product i always make as a seller and costumer POV. Most of the costumers dont want to know half about tech, fabric or motors. The salesman who actually doesnt know all that much will have the final word about the camera that will be purchase (not by or you, but by the average costumer)
Harold66 said:
I think at this stage only 3 observations can be made and they probably do NOT apply to ALL markets :

1/There might be some resistance on the price. Ricoh's are usually more tools than toys and do not necessarily have the same kind of purchase behavior than for the Panasonic and Olympus
Click to expand...
Of course there is. The G1 sensor (i have the camera) is awful and the A12 seems to be an state of art. The G1 AF is pertty much almost as fast as my D300, believe me im telling the truth...
Harold66 said:
2/The GXR is marketed as a system. At the present time , there is only two modules and only one lens for the larger sensor , which is the market most likely to invest that $ amount in the GXR system
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OK.
Harold66 said:
3/ Ricoh has a narrower distribution channel than most other brands. A lot of sales are generated from word of mouth and on reviews on magazines and internet
There has not been many of that yet
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Thats why im expressing my opinion, based from where i live. If i was not interested enough about photography i would never even get to know Ricoh.
Harold66 said:
Finally , even if people like to compare with the m4/3 rds , Ricoh does not have the same power of fire and I am pretty sure that their sales goals are not at the same level
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I believe so also.
Harold66 said:
I think a lot of the sales will depend on how quickly and how wisely Ricoh will choose and bring new modules to the market, especially on a Photokina year
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No, it will depend of the first modules sucess
Harold66 said:
Harold

so that leaves us Ricoh fans or semi-pros or even pros who want a better sensor than m4/3(A12) but then these people want DSRL AF performance to pay 1500usd for a camera with a lens.
NO there are many other reasons to choose the GXR over the m4/3
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You have to quote them....
Harold66 said:
It seems a lot like Sigma SD cameras,
I suppose you meant DP cameras and No I don't agree
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No i meant the SD since the Dps are used by a lot of DSRl users from others brands

I hope you are not mad...are you? understand that i love ricoh and dont confuse me with any other type of person that you are might thinking i am

Best regards

self portrait:



I love taking pictures and sonner or later i will learn how to take good ones.......
ALBUNS:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25417226@N06/sets/
BRASIL ALBUM:
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Carlos Roncatti Bomfim
 
Harold66 said:
Hello Carlos

No i am not mad. of course not , why would I be ? :))
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Glad to know Harold...
Harold66 said:
I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say about the Sigma
the Sd are dslr's are they not ?
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Yes the SD line are Dsrls
Harold66 said:
what makes you think that they are comparable ? in what way
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I meant to compare not products directly, but the fact that when a product is aimed for those who can afford an expensive type of product, usually their primarily success is among their loyal costumer base, the ones who already a product from their line...and sometimes only with these costumers. Seems to be the case with Sigma SD cameras and not with their Dp line, since its cheaper. I really hope that will NOT be the case with Ricoh, because i want the GXR to be a success and who knows maybe the price even can drop a little (smile)

Best regards....
Harold66 said:
Harold
--
http://www.harold-glit.com
http://www.modelmayhem.com/haroldglit
Click to expand...
--
self portrait:



I love taking pictures and sonner or later i will learn how to take good ones.......
ALBUNS:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25417226@N06/sets/
BRASIL ALBUM:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25417226@N06/sets/72157622653898091/show/
Carlos Roncatti Bomfim
 
I LOVE my Ricoh GRD, I only wish there was a modern version with new Ricoh UI amenities, new fast lens, etc. (I don't like the NR of the GRD III, it's not bad but it's not worth the upgrade price for me.)

The GXR system looks very interesting, but the cost is a big issue compared to M 4/3. The A12 IQ looks great, but the AF reports have put me off. From the perspective of a GRD owner the S10 looks interesting, but GXR + S10 module is way too expensive for a small sensor cam.

Of course it is a system, more modules are coming later. But without any roadmap of new modules, it is a tough decision to buy GXR now, if only 1 of the currently available modules is of interest to you (especially if it's the S10.) You can only hope that a future module will be in line with what you want. And there are many possibilities with regards to sensor size, prime vs. zoom, etc.

The module that would tempt me the most would be a larger sensor (4/3 size or larger) fast 28mm prime. Right now there is no comparable camera in the marketplace, there is no fast M 4/3 wide angle, and the DP1 lens is f/4. Of course, different people would have different visions of their 'ideal' module.

If Ricoh would only announce a couple of future modules (surely they already are developing the next module or 2), it would set a lot of peoples' minds at ease about how the GXR system fits for them. I would also ask for a price drop, but that is not as realistic and I understand Ricoh is pricing for their 'niche' market.
 
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