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D40 vs D90 --> 30 day conclusion -part 2

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Why not?

Face detection w/tracking is brilliant if you have a moving subject where you don't have to constantly worry about where you've set your focus point. This is particularly useful on a D5K where it is very easy to move it around by accident.

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/emmkayfive/
 
Lido1231 said:
On auto...with a decent VR lens...Expeed...this thing ought to work better than a Point and Shoot Panasonic Lumix...and truthfully...my Lumix focuses better...
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Does it actually focus better, or is it just impossible to tell whether the focus is off due to the huge depth of field? Consider the following:
  • With a focal length equivalent of 105mm at f/5.6, with focus at 10 feet, a 1/1.7" sensor compact has three times the depth of field as a D90.
  • With a focal length equivalent of 28mm at f/2.8, with focus at 5 feet, a 1/1.7" sensor compact has over thirteen times the depth of field as a D90.
 
Never had an out of focus image with the D90 that wasn't my fault - and even then, not very often - it compensates for my mistakes very well.

Would agree though - use single focus AF and spot metering (or pay close attention to the matrix metering).
 
D90 has face detection. What I mean is is you use auto area, and there are many faces as in the picture, how the camera know which face is the one you want to focus, as those face may in different focus distance (I'm talking this in the context of the pictures posted here, with more than one people, and F1.8, i.e shallow DOF that cannot make everyone in focus)
 
What is your point here? If you compensate for the differences in sensor size (i.e. convert FL to 35mm equivalent on both cameras so the magnification "looks" the same) don't you get the same DOF on either camera?
binary_eye said:
Lido1231 said:
On auto...with a decent VR lens...Expeed...this thing ought to work better than a Point and Shoot Panasonic Lumix...and truthfully...my Lumix focuses better...
Click to expand...
Does it actually focus better, or is it just impossible to tell whether the focus is off due to the huge depth of field? Consider the following:
  • With a focal length equivalent of 105mm at f/5.6, with focus at 10 feet, a 1/1.7" sensor compact has three times the depth of field as a D90.
  • With a focal length equivalent of 28mm at f/2.8, with focus at 5 feet, a 1/1.7" sensor compact has over thirteen times the depth of field as a D90.
Click to expand...
 
Of course, my friend, you did not GET the shot and he did.
eNo said:
FWIW, unless you really wanted to de-focus everything else, an aperture of f/4 or f/5.6 would have been more appropriate for this type of shot.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's easy to argue about equipment and technique, but hard to argue with a good photograph -- and more difficult to capture one .



Gallery and blog: http://esfotoclix.com
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OK, not so purely a hobby.
 
Lido1231 said:
My D-90 is at Nikon Service for the same focus issues. Bad overall focus.

My D-50 is much much better....same lens..same settings...the D-50 out focuses the D-90.

I also tested a D-300 and the D-300 does best of all.

My general conclusion...quality contral in Taiwan is slipping.
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Chalk and cheese, isn't it? With 11 focus points on the D3000, D5000 and D90, only the center AF point is cross-type (Multi-CAM 1000). In comparison, the D300 and D300S have a whopping 51-point AF sensor with 15 cross-type points (Multi-CAM 3500DX) working in concert with the 3D Color Matrix Metering II RGB sensor to predictively track moving targets by color, shape, speed and direction. Sophisticated, impressive and expensive. If you didn't catch it, here's what DPR had to say about it: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond300s/page13.asp

"The D300S has one of the most sophisticated AF systems on the market...in terms of its ability to select the active point and track with a subject...we were impressed by its ability to return a sequence of in-focus images, even in the hands of an inexperienced shooter. We also found it's a system that will continue to work in surprisingly low light..."

Unfortunately, a D300S is waaay beyond my budget but I'm left wondering if the Multi-CAM 1000 AF sensor (from 2006 in the D80) is "good enough" for general use in a current $900 DSLR.

This isn't a criticism - it's a legitimate question. Not withstanding the Canon 7D's current production problems, spending $1,700 on a DSLR pretty well guaranties that you'll get a AF system that is fast and accurate with good tracking capabilities. Professionals use higher-spec cameras for difficult shooting and I'm sure it's with good reason. For those of us with lesser budgets, one wonders what compromise in AF performance constitutes "good enough"?

Does one have to spend well over US$1,000 to get the AF trifecta of fast and accurate and good motion tracking? Maybe so.

--

Group Captain Mandrake: 'I was tortured by the Japanese, Jack, if you must know; not a pretty story....Strange thing is they make such bloody good cameras.' ( Dr. Strangelove , 1964)
 
Squirrel7 said:
What is your point here? If you compensate for the differences in sensor size (i.e. convert FL to 35mm equivalent on both cameras so the magnification "looks" the same) don't you get the same DOF on either camera?
Click to expand...
I did convert each to 35mm equivalent, which is my point. However, I did make a stupid error in my calculations by setting the focus at the same distance for each camera; it would need to be different to get the same framing.

Regardless, my point still stands: The smaller the sensor, the more depth of field given the same subject framing at the same aperture, thus more room for error in focus accuracy. The correct ratio in difference of depth of field is the sensor diagonal of the larger divided by the smaller. So a 1/1.7" sensor camera has three times more depth of field than a Nikon APS-C sensor camera such as the D90, given the same subject framed the same and shot at the same aperture.
 
I don't get the people urging to use a single point AF. What did you get a camera with 11 AF points and only going to use one?
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Jumbo Jet Ed
 
For $1,000 you cannot get a D90 in Canada. After tax it is closer to $1400. And yes I expect a $1000 camera to focus as well as a $2000 camera. Good focus is the basis for a good photo. My Canon SD940 gets better focus than my D90. However, I am going to bring it to Nikon for inspection and report back. I will upload photos since DPR allows that sort of thing now without using an external link.
Maxwell Smart said:
Lido1231 said:
My D-90 is at Nikon Service for the same focus issues. Bad overall focus.

My D-50 is much much better....same lens..same settings...the D-50 out focuses the D-90.

I also tested a D-300 and the D-300 does best of all.

My general conclusion...quality contral in Taiwan is slipping.
Click to expand...
Chalk and cheese, isn't it? With 11 focus points on the D3000, D5000 and D90, only the center AF point is cross-type (Multi-CAM 1000). In comparison, the D300 and D300S have a whopping 51-point AF sensor with 15 cross-type points (Multi-CAM 3500DX) working in concert with the 3D Color Matrix Metering II RGB sensor to predictively track moving targets by color, shape, speed and direction. Sophisticated, impressive and expensive. If you didn't catch it, here's what DPR had to say about it: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond300s/page13.asp

"The D300S has one of the most sophisticated AF systems on the market...in terms of its ability to select the active point and track with a subject...we were impressed by its ability to return a sequence of in-focus images, even in the hands of an inexperienced shooter. We also found it's a system that will continue to work in surprisingly low light..."

Unfortunately, a D300S is waaay beyond my budget but I'm left wondering if the Multi-CAM 1000 AF sensor (from 2006 in the D80) is "good enough" for general use in a current $900 DSLR.

This isn't a criticism - it's a legitimate question. Not withstanding the Canon 7D's current production problems, spending $1,700 on a DSLR pretty well guaranties that you'll get a AF system that is fast and accurate with good tracking capabilities. Professionals use higher-spec cameras for difficult shooting and I'm sure it's with good reason. For those of us with lesser budgets, one wonders what compromise in AF performance constitutes "good enough"?

Does one have to spend well over US$1,000 to get the AF trifecta of fast and accurate and good motion tracking? Maybe so.

--

Group Captain Mandrake: 'I was tortured by the Japanese, Jack, if you must know; not a pretty story....Strange thing is they make such bloody good cameras.' ( Dr. Strangelove , 1964)
Click to expand...
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Jumbo Jet Ed
 
I use matrix metering when I think it's appropriate for the situation. Also have a D300s with 51 AF points. I trust the camera's judgment most times and others I prefer to spot meter. Depends entirely on what you are comfortable doing AND the subject. In the situation you described I would spot meter - others may differ of course.

You can also adjust the AF points to your liking - you just need to learn how the camera responds to your changes. Just don't assume that the camera always knows best.
 
jumbojet said:
For $1,000 you cannot get a D90 in Canada. After tax it is closer to $1400.
Click to expand...
At Henry's, "The King of High Prices", the D90 body ONLY is $1020 +tax!!

Other places are more like one of my local stores:
D90 body - $887.00 CDN (about $1011 with GST & QC taxes)
D90 / 18-55 VR - $1027 CDN (about $1170 with GST & QC taxes)
D90 / 18-105 VR - $1220 CDN (about $1390 with GST & QC taxes)
If you buy out of province, you pay only 6% GST, and no provincial tax.
(Of course, you would remit the tax to your provinces local office later ;-))

http://www.royalphoto.com/en/products.html?catalog[decision_model_guids][]=a58a8268-4946-4121-8912-f53ba8efa0ea&catalog[search][spec_value_ids][99155][]=3923730&catalog[search][spec_value_ids][99071][]=3914513&catalog[search][price][min]=&catalog[search][price][max]=

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Patco
A photograph is more than a bunch of pixels
 
Just the opposite here. I don't understand why people would ever use more than just the center point. The only reason I can think of is if you don't know ahead of time where you want to focus and you want to leave it up to the camera to decide. This may be common in action shots like sports, etc, but it is useless in landscape and other stationary scenes as far as I'm concerned. One point is all I need. I tell the camera where to focus, not the other way around.
jumbojet said:
I don't get the people urging to use a single point AF. What did you get a camera with 11 AF points and only going to use one?
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Jumbo Jet Ed
Click to expand...
 
When you want to take a picture, you want the subject to be in focus, right ?
I never leave the camera to decide what is the subject : I decide.
How could the camera guess what's the main subject of the picture ?
The only time I might use the 11 AF points is when shooting moving subjects.
Didn't try that yet with the D90.
André
 
jumbojet said:
I don't get the people urging to use a single point AF. What did you get a camera with 11 AF points and only going to use one?
Click to expand...
Most likely because there aren't many cameras with only one AF point.

The reason to use single point AF is because you can pick the exact area in the scene you want to be in focus. Otherwise, you're letting the camera decide where to focus. And the more focus points available, the more likely the camera is to focus on something you don't want it to.
 
Single point does not mean you use only one point. You can switch between points for your convenience.

Single point means it does not switch automatically.
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D90+18-105 VR, 35 F2 AF-D, 85 1.8 AF-D, SB-600
 
Just get out of the concept that D90 P&S camera.

Switch to AF-S, single point, Manual mode (M), start thinking about aperture and speed and you will get there.
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D90+18-105 VR, 35 F2 AF-D, 85 1.8 AF-D, SB-600
 
Back to basics...I had the exact same problem with a D40 last year, after it working flawlessly prior. I sent the camera back to Nikon (under warranty) with the lens I was using at the time. It came back that the lens had gone bad...this is worth looking at in your case...be sure to try the same shot with different lenses.

Second, when I first got my D90 I was getting a lot of blurred and out of focus pictures...then I bought an after market book which I did not need for my D40. There are a number of books, and I am not favoring one over the other, I just happened to get Darrell Young's book on Mastering the Nikon D90. Virtually all of MY ERRORS are being corrected as I learn more about this camera. I was doing many things wrong. I am even starting to get better pictures with my D90 than my D40 finally! At first I was like you, wanting to dump this camera...not now :-) I am starting to love it...but it was not easy for me to start up. Maybe that could be some of your issues too???
 
Hey, you are a genius. I think you are 100% right. People are just not looking very close at their pics. All the users, reviewers and engineers miss the fact that D90s are completely defective. ALL D90s have poor focus and it only took a couple of nimrods on DPreview to notice the fact.
Squirrel7 said:
Ironically, I believe that the Santa shots were being posted as examples of how well the D90 focused. This particular user was claiming he pretty much never sees an out of focus shot, but these are all blurry. Makes me wonder about all the others who say they have 90% keepers. I think some people just don't look that closely at their photos.
whirl124 said:
Do you have any sample images? Are your photos more out of focus than the santa ones pictured? I though those were out of focus, even compared to my el chepo camera.
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Defective? No. Uncalibrated? Probably. Something to do with a batch run? Definitely.

Now here is another scenario. The camera shipment was damaged during shipping. Or the sales people at the store dropped it, laughed about it, and sold it to you anyways. You will never know where your new camera have been or went through before you buy it.
davidried said:
Hey, you are a genius. I think you are 100% right. People are just not looking very close at their pics. All the users, reviewers and engineers miss the fact that D90s are completely defective. ALL D90s have poor focus and it only took a couple of nimrods on DPreview to notice the fact.
Squirrel7 said:
Ironically, I believe that the Santa shots were being posted as examples of how well the D90 focused. This particular user was claiming he pretty much never sees an out of focus shot, but these are all blurry. Makes me wonder about all the others who say they have 90% keepers. I think some people just don't look that closely at their photos.
whirl124 said:
Do you have any sample images? Are your photos more out of focus than the santa ones pictured? I though those were out of focus, even compared to my el chepo camera.
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Jumbo Jet Ed
 
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