Wayndom
Senior Member
Uh, the 50D has a pentaprism, not a pentamirror.
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~ Your reasons for not going f u l l f r a m e ~
- Thread starter Meshwork
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Wayndom
Senior Member
You have to look for the "pre-shrunk" label before you buy...
Wayndom
Senior Member
You will if you use cheap, crappy lenses. When I got tired of soft, mushy edges and corners, I bought a 17-55, and have been as happy as a pig in sh@t ever since...
Oh yes, and my new 10-22 makes me just as happy. No mush for me, thanx, I'm on a low-mush diet...
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50D, XT/350D, EF-S 17-55, EF-S 10-22
Equipment Emeritus: First-generation F-1, FD 24 2.8, FD 35 f2, FD 50 1.4, FD 85 1.8
Wayndom
Senior Member
I read what you wrote, and also thought you were slamming crop... Sometimes we don't express ourselves as clearly as we think...
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50D, XT/350D, EF-S 17-55, EF-S 10-22
Equipment Emeritus: First-generation F-1, FD 24 2.8, FD 35 f2, FD 50 1.4, FD 85 1.8
Wayndom
Senior Member
You can still get a 10-22 for under $800 (and a LOT less if you go third-party). Considering that there isn't going to be an under-$1K FF in the foreseeable future...
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50D, XT/350D, EF-S 17-55, EF-S 10-22
Equipment Emeritus: First-generation F-1, FD 24 2.8, FD 35 f2, FD 50 1.4, FD 85 1.8
Bannor
Forum Enthusiast
There's NOTHING wrong with my 40D!
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Bannor
'Political Correctness is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and the media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'
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Bannor
'Political Correctness is doctrine fostered by a delusional minority and the media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'
South Bird
Well-known member
The extra reach "crop factor" is a big plus since I shoot sports and the 5D2 doesn't have built in flash and I don't like to be dependent on carrying flash for fill and the unexpected.
E
Eugene Powers
Guest
You know you can print at least 20x30 with 7D. Right? I printed that much out of 1ds2-16mp.
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Eugene
The only time a smaller sensor with the same pixel count is superior to a larger sensor (aka higher pixel density) is when you are focal-length limited.
Lee Jay
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Eugene
The only time a smaller sensor with the same pixel count is superior to a larger sensor (aka higher pixel density) is when you are focal-length limited.
Lee Jay
Dmatter
Well-known member
My line of Canon cameras was 300d-350d-400d-450d-5d-50d-7d. As you see i have FF camera for some period of time. But i must say though it was fun to have FF body, it was sharp as hell, excellent low-light capability, etc., in terms of "usablity" it was awful camera - bulky, slow, so-so autofocus and i decided to skip 5D Mark 2 and stay with 50D and then 7D only because this cameras was more reliable in achieving what i want from them. Also my clients (commercial, magazines, wedding, products shooting) don't care at all what type of camera i use - FF or crop. They just interested in excellent images.
I have considered 5D years ago and 5DII (less seriously) when it was first released. Both times the mediocre body (fps, AF, shutter lag) shut down the idea. With the advancement of sensor technology it becomes less and less likely that I will go full frame in the future. I think the sweet spot of sensor size is passing the full frame and going smaller as we speak.
The lens projects the same size image circle, regardless the camera and sensor size. In the case of a 24mm x 36mm sensor (FF), the maximum area of the image circle is recorded.
On a crop body with a smaller sensor, the image circle is the same size, but it will extend beyond the sensor and is not recorded. This basically reduces the field of view.
When all other conditions are the same, a 50mm lens on a 1.6 crop body will have the same field of view as an 80mm lens on a full frame body.
Pixel density relates to the resolution of the recorder image - how many pixels captured the image - and has no affect on the field of view.
This link might help
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
Another example
http://www.echeng.com/photo/digital/canondslr/
Doug
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http://pbase.com/dougj
On a crop body with a smaller sensor, the image circle is the same size, but it will extend beyond the sensor and is not recorded. This basically reduces the field of view.
When all other conditions are the same, a 50mm lens on a 1.6 crop body will have the same field of view as an 80mm lens on a full frame body.
Pixel density relates to the resolution of the recorder image - how many pixels captured the image - and has no affect on the field of view.
This link might help
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-camera-sensor-size.htm
Another example
http://www.echeng.com/photo/digital/canondslr/
Best regards,
Doug
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http://pbase.com/dougj
Vibrio
Senior Member
untill I got the cash lol
I'd have prefered to stay with crop as I liked the extra magnification but I wanted less noise and less DOF so a 135 frame was the only option for me.
I'd have prefered to stay with crop as I liked the extra magnification but I wanted less noise and less DOF so a 135 frame was the only option for me.
I also do landscapes but am staying on a crop camera because the current full frame cameras are way too expensive and quite frankly not good enough for the money, but you always do get diminishing returns for your money as you get towards any top of the line kit. A big concern is lack of full weather sealing, Id expect it on any camera costing over £1000! so this makes 5D2 too expensive to replace if I damaged it when working in very changeable conditions or at the coast.
Getting a 50D for now and a combination of EF/EFS lenses (mostly EF) as I hope the price of FF continues to drop so that in a few years time there might be a £1000 (FF body) camera around with features similar to the 7D.
overall I want good focus, EXCELLENT IQ with low noise in almost any light, bright and detailed LCD, and nothing but FULL weather sealing.
Getting a 50D for now and a combination of EF/EFS lenses (mostly EF) as I hope the price of FF continues to drop so that in a few years time there might be a £1000 (FF body) camera around with features similar to the 7D.
overall I want good focus, EXCELLENT IQ with low noise in almost any light, bright and detailed LCD, and nothing but FULL weather sealing.
Meshwork
Veteran Member
...please keep them coming. It's certainly been enlightening for me.
I should also mention, in respect to landscape shooting, that I think that the electronic horizon leveler would be invaluable. I for one have great difficulty in keeping my horizons level in very low light, those last remaining moments after dusk when you've changed position and you're doing at least 30 second exposures (with the 7D it would have to be no smaller an aperture than f6.3 due to the diffraction limitations imposed by the very high pixel density of this camera's APS-C size sensor).
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Mesh
Australia
5% lighting, 5% composition. 90% location. Get there.
I should also mention, in respect to landscape shooting, that I think that the electronic horizon leveler would be invaluable. I for one have great difficulty in keeping my horizons level in very low light, those last remaining moments after dusk when you've changed position and you're doing at least 30 second exposures (with the 7D it would have to be no smaller an aperture than f6.3 due to the diffraction limitations imposed by the very high pixel density of this camera's APS-C size sensor).
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Mesh
Australia
5% lighting, 5% composition. 90% location. Get there.
Meshwork
Veteran Member
...I'm sure you're a decent photographer, one who is competent with composing an image and one who understands the importance of lighting. It's almost effortless for you now, eh? As for location, well that can always be difficult - long drives, plane flights, hauling equipment; unless of course you're happy repeatedly taking sunset shots over your neighbour's lemon tree.
: - )
Mesh
Mesh
Australia
5% lighting, 5% composition. 90% location. Get there.
: - )
Mesh
--Oh, bugger! I thought I was an OK photographer for an amateur - turns out it's just the location - damn!
Mesh
Australia
5% lighting, 5% composition. 90% location. Get there.
Dmatter
Well-known member
Electronic horizon leveler is also very useful for shooting macro from tripod. Very very useful and easy to use.
E
Eugene Powers
Guest
Also useful for hand held panoramas.
I am shooting hand held anyway using focusing points as guides but always end up plus/minus 50-100 pixels off on top and bottom. I will have 7D on Tuesday but I am pretty sure I can cut 50-100 pixels to 20-25 pixels with horizon adjustment.
Shooting hand held panoramas saves ton of time. The only time it does not work is at night with long exposure.
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Eugene
The only time a smaller sensor with the same pixel count is superior to a larger sensor (aka higher pixel density) is when you are focal-length limited.
Lee Jay
I am shooting hand held anyway using focusing points as guides but always end up plus/minus 50-100 pixels off on top and bottom. I will have 7D on Tuesday but I am pretty sure I can cut 50-100 pixels to 20-25 pixels with horizon adjustment.
Shooting hand held panoramas saves ton of time. The only time it does not work is at night with long exposure.
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Eugene
The only time a smaller sensor with the same pixel count is superior to a larger sensor (aka higher pixel density) is when you are focal-length limited.
Lee Jay
E
Eugene Powers
Guest
The biggest hurdle with 5D2 is focusing. Though there are hardly any reports with bad focusing because most people use center point anyway the outer points are ABSOLUTELY USELESS!!!! And mostly this camera is in use for landscape. With 7D type focusing on 5D2 a lot more people would be buying 5D2.
To get shallower DOF you need better lenses. At the same settings crop camera produces shallower DOF than FF. Here is calculator for you.
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/DOF-calculator.htm
Most people do because of the hype or difference in MP. Traditionally FF cameras had much more pixels than crop cameras but it is no longer the case. I am sure it could change soon again but at much higher cost and at totally wasted pixels.
Even if Canon comes out with 1DS4 at rumored 32mp most people do not need 32mp. I would be lusting for it no question about it but I no longer want to waste pixels or my money (I had plenty of $8K cameras) or storage or many other inconveniences associated with this camera like batteries, size etc.....
I don't need bragging rights either. Did I cover everything?
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Eugene
The only time a smaller sensor with the same pixel count is superior to a larger sensor (aka higher pixel density) is when you are focal-length limited.
Lee Jay
E
Eugene Powers
Guest
If you would go on vacation and only could bring one body which one would you bring?
My answer now is 7D. A year ago it would be 5D2.
Few months ago I went to San Francisco and even though I brought many lenses with me I end up using 24-105mm all the time on 5D2.
I had 16-35mm F2.8 and Sigma 12-24mm and 100-400mm IS with me. I only used 100-400mm in the Zoo. I wish I had 7D there. Never found anything I needed wider than 24mm.
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Eugene
The only time a smaller sensor with the same pixel count is superior to a larger sensor (aka higher pixel density) is when you are focal-length limited.
Lee Jay
My answer now is 7D. A year ago it would be 5D2.
Few months ago I went to San Francisco and even though I brought many lenses with me I end up using 24-105mm all the time on 5D2.
I had 16-35mm F2.8 and Sigma 12-24mm and 100-400mm IS with me. I only used 100-400mm in the Zoo. I wish I had 7D there. Never found anything I needed wider than 24mm.
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Eugene
The only time a smaller sensor with the same pixel count is superior to a larger sensor (aka higher pixel density) is when you are focal-length limited.
Lee Jay
DOF is the same if your using the same lens, settings, distance to subject ETC... ETC..
The FF just allows you to get more of the scene.
The crop body is just like taking the FF image and doing that just cropping the edges of the image off.
DOF is exactly the same.
a lens is a lens no matter what body it's on.
You should try your calculator you posted the link to.
Put in your settings for the crop body and look at the results it tells you.
Then change ONLY the camera type to 35mm & the print size to 1.6x that of your crop settings.
And nothing will change.
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