cold camera

The official minimum operating temperature of cameras tends to be stated as around 0 degrees C. What are the real dangers of shooting an (expensive) body in temperatures below this? might this cause long term damage that is not immediately apparent

I don't know where you get this info but the only thing I notice is faster draining of batteries..

I guess you'll be fine down to -20 celsius ... as long as your hands (and the rest of you) can stand it

snapshots said:

I don't know where you get this info

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Stated in the Manuel, as the operating tempe range of the camera. I have not seen any that state less than zero. i assume it is mainly manufacturers covering their backs?

a quick google of official camera specs shows D700 and D3 (and all others i can see) having an operating temperature range of 0 to 40 degrees C.

D700 and all my lenses work fine at below -20. Battery life is noticably shorter, so keep spare one inside the jacket.

What is most important, do not enter with your gear in warm places before you put it back to your bag. If you're inpatient to see pics, remove card while still outside, and do not take gear out of the bag for several hours.
--
FX

nidza said:

D700 and all my lenses work fine at below -20.

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looking at some of the pictures circulating the web of frozen cameras which have all survived apparently unscathed, it makes me wonder why the 0 degrees figure is quoted? - i suppose they are simply covering their backs?

most likely. i don't think nikon can reliably guarantee that the camera will operate at a temperature below which all water is frozen. despite the weather sealing, there's the possibility of condensation causing water to form and then freeze inside the camera body.

--
http://ottos-photos.blogspot.com/

http://pbase.com/ottosphotos

http://www.ottosphotos.com

THANKS FOR THE QUESTION!

This is something I, too, have puzzled over: after all, there are legions
of images from decades of usage of esp. pro-grade cameras in very
cold conditions -- esp. when, relative to the Nikon/Canon/Sony/?
stated operating temperatures, too cold is merely sub-freezing!!
(I could see maybe 0^F being a low nominal threshold, but 0^C?)

Note that a couple cameras (Pentax/Olympus?) have a 14^F low temp.,
in some distinction to others.

Again, these cameras are and have been depended upon to deliver
in quite cold, sub-freezing, conditions for ages.

-drofnad

I've had my camera outside all day in Alaska during the winter. Temps on the glacier (heli-skiing) are usually around 0 F or below. The camera/lenses, etc.. are thrown into the basket on the outside of the helicopter flying at speeds from 80-100+mph in those temps, or lower at altitude. Not sure how the math works out there-COLD.

What I can tell you is I've never had a single issue at these temps-which while flying are far below what you could possibly withstand on your hands. The only issue I've ever seen while shooting some skiing in Colorado was the red focus points moved slower than normal. The liquid crystal was freezing. (not sure if it's liquid crystal but that's what I guess).

--
[email protected]
http://www.courtlevephoto.com

Someone has to be shooting all those pictures at -40 F in Antarctica.

????

Bob from Ohio

golf1982 said:

The official minimum operating temperature of cameras tends to be stated as around 0 degrees C. What are the real dangers of shooting an (expensive) body in temperatures below this? might this cause long term damage that is not immediately apparent

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Issues when it's reallllly cold, like -20 to -40 degrees C may include:

1. Materials doesn't behave like they normally do in the supported temperature range. Liquids may start to freeze and cables may become very stiff and even brittle.

2. It's a matter of keeping support costs at a reasonable level. Having a reasonable fixed range makes it easier for the manufacturer to predict support and repair costs.

3. Unless they have a particular focus on a niche market such as -40 to -60 deg C photographers, why do they need to spend money on testing and qualifying the camera performance will be the same when it's that cold?

4. The battery longevity will be MUCH shorter then when it's cold.

5. The usual range provides a reasonable amount of assurance for end users that performance and response should be about the same throughout the entire range. But when you go beyond either extremes, this may no longer be true.

6. When you raise the camera to your eye (to look through the viewfinder), you will bring it by your mouth while you breathe out. Result: instant ice crystals freezing the viewfinder -- fun.

7. When you bring a camera indoors from such cold and lower humidity to a warmer place with higher humidity, bingo, condensation. Water inside electronics is NOT fun.

8. The odds of the camera continuing to work if you left it outside (even if shielded from the elements) for entire days (not just a few hours outside but 7-10+ days nonstop) are probably lower than if it had been in a place within the supported temperature range.

Think of it this way: in extreme cold weather areas, you often have to use special materials to cope. Such as a fuel mixture more tolerant of the cold, specially treated electrical cables that won't become brittle and snap easily (fire hazard), engines that requires additional heating elements to keep the oil a liquid instead of a frozen solid, and so forth. Cameras are also machines and may behave differently when really cold.

The OP's (which others also wonder) question remains unanswered.
Yes, we know that cameras regularly are expected to operate at MUCH
colder temperatures, so, again, why do some (most?) manufacturers
give 0^F as the minimum operating temperature? (At least some have
gone lower, to 14^F.) And especially for those makers selling the
weatherized, tough "pro" bodies, this is a surprising limit to see.

(Condensation is an issue occurring for many temp-change situations,
nothing magic about freezing, is there? In any case, that should be
a separate warning.)

-drofnad

Drofnad said:

The OP's (which others also wonder) question remains unanswered.

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It was previously answered to a reasonable extent. Can't help it if you didn't like or agree with what you read.

Bottom line is, a) support costs factors into the economics of manufacturing, selling, and supporting a product, b) there are physical differences when it gets really cold (or hot) that alters a product's usual performance.

They had to make a cut-off on both ends of the range somewhere.

Don't know if you've ever actually shot in extreme cold with your D-series camera; I have, and better appreciate the physical changes then -- ever seen a LCD freeze? The cameras still work, but not the same as when it's warmer. Did you know that NASA's D2xs cameras were mostly stock except for use of Braycote lubricant to better hold up in extreme cold of space?

I have nor hesitated to use my Nikons at any temperatures I have encountered. I have used them for prolonged periods down to -20C. No signs of camera problems, other than batteries loosing power rather quickly and need to be warmed in an inner pocket for some time to warm up and gain power again. Examples at about -15C:





Nikon cameras have been performing very well in many tests in the cold I have seen (opposed to Canon). Here a link you may find interesting:

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/antarctica-2009-worked.shtml

--
Kind regards
Kaj
http://www.pbase.com/kaj_e
WSSA member

It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.- Elliott Erwitt

During end of 2009 and the first days of this year I took a lot of pictures in the Hedalen valley in Norway at temperatures ranging from -15C to -26C. In the beginning, I was afraid of problems and kept the camera in the bag, just taking it out for a few minutes while taking pictures. However, after a couple of days, I just carried the camera (D300) as usual without any protection at all. The most extreme was one day when we walked for almost 3 hours at a temperature ranging from -20 to -25 C. No problems with the camera or the lens (16-85 mm) at all. Another night I tried to get some night shots of stars and left the camera on the tripoid for about 2 hours at a temperature around -22C. Again, no problems.

I am therefore absolutely convinced that the high end Nikons can reliably work far below 0C for quite some time.

However, as already stated by others you should be very careful when you take the camera back into a warm room. I placed the camera in a cold camera bag before bringing it in, and left it in the bag for several hours before turning it on.

Best regards

Erik

Hocus Pocus said:

Drofnad said:

The OP's (which others also wonder) question remains unanswered.

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It was previously answered to a reasonable extent. Can't help it if you didn't like or agree with what you read.

Bottom line is, a) support costs factors into the economics of manufacturing, selling, and supporting a product, b) there are physical differences when it gets really cold (or hot) that alters a product's usual performance.

They had to make a cut-off on both ends of the range somewhere.

Don't know if you've ever actually shot in extreme cold with your D-series camera;

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You really aren't getting this, are you?
I read fine -- how 'bout you?! The question was why Nikon and some others
(most?) choose 0^C as min. operating temperature, which by ALL accounts
posted here (in not answering the question directly) --i.p., yours, to wit:

Hocus Pocus said:

"Issues when it's reallllly cold, like -20 to -40 degrees C may include:"

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:--
is WAY warmer than DECADES of experience of many cameras show to be
tolerable.

There are a couple cameras, well cheaper than esp. the pro-body CaNikons,
that at least give a nominal lower temperature of 14^F. So for those buying
the weather-tough D3 & 1D, etc., seeing a nominal limit of merely freezing
just doesn't make good sense.

So, the question remains unanswered.
I suppose most folks don't care, and just use the cameras as they expect
them to work (in winter, in the arctic), and have no concern that something

might go terribly wrong and cost them for violating stated operating conditions!?

As for condensation problems, these can occur up and down the temperature
scale -- it's a question on contrasts, not of a particular temperature, and not
of freezing, which is the particular temperature at issue, here.

-drofnad