mamallama
Forum Pro
You are changing the subject. I thought it was cameras with viewfinders (of any type) vs. LCD panels only cameras.
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Is the viewfinder dead on Canon P&S cameras?
- Thread starter David Swanger
- Start date
--mamallama
Not really changing the subject, just adding to it.
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CPS G11
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'A single photo speaks 1000 words and is timeless. A video needs 1000 frames just to show 30 seconds of time.' - Andrew Juett
David Swanger
Well-known member
Right. I guess I'm lumping electronic and optical viewfinders together.
David Swanger
Well-known member
I like it. Maybe it's not as sharp as I'd like.
David Swanger
Well-known member
That real estate used used by viewfinders might be considered justified by we viewfinder lovers. The more important functionality that it replaces might only be considered more important to non-viewfinder users.
David Swanger
Well-known member
I've got to try one of these.
David Swanger
Well-known member
I wonder if that's what wrong with some of my photography. Maybe the stupid viewfinder (that I'm addicted to) is the problem!
David Swanger
Well-known member
I appreciate all of the responses to this subject.
I got out my S5 at home and used it using only the LCD. I'm still not comfortable with it but that may be an "old dogs new tricks" thing. I'm going to try this for a few days and see if I can used to it.
One issue someone mentioned is steady hands. It seems easier to hold the camera steady if it's against my face than if I'm holding it in front of my eyes so I can see the LCD. Maybe I can get better at this.
Another issue someone mentioned is inaccurate viewfinders can maybe cause the pictures to look different than you think they should look. I never thought about that. Yes, that's it, that's why I'm such a mediocre photographer. ;-) Okay, maybe it's just one of the reasons.
I got out my S5 at home and used it using only the LCD. I'm still not comfortable with it but that may be an "old dogs new tricks" thing. I'm going to try this for a few days and see if I can used to it.
One issue someone mentioned is steady hands. It seems easier to hold the camera steady if it's against my face than if I'm holding it in front of my eyes so I can see the LCD. Maybe I can get better at this.
Another issue someone mentioned is inaccurate viewfinders can maybe cause the pictures to look different than you think they should look. I never thought about that. Yes, that's it, that's why I'm such a mediocre photographer. ;-) Okay, maybe it's just one of the reasons.
Your viewfinder is 100% and dpreview says is much better than the S3 and S2 – even if no more pixels. The SX10 seems to have an even better one, also compared to the SX1.
“It seems easier to hold the camera steady if it's against my face than if I'm holding it in front of my eyes so I can see the LCD,” you wrote. Just my experience. The old way of taking photos. Get rid of everything around you and concentrate. If you keep doing this you will have some great photos.
Understand what you say about pictures looking different than you think they would look. But the viewfinder is 100% and you can see what happens when changing aperture and shutter using M, so after some time you will know more about how the result will be. Just do it over and over.
Good idea to use only LCD for some time. And tell us what you think. If you are going for small cameras get used to LCD or you have to pay a lot if there are external viewfinders.
“It seems easier to hold the camera steady if it's against my face than if I'm holding it in front of my eyes so I can see the LCD,” you wrote. Just my experience. The old way of taking photos. Get rid of everything around you and concentrate. If you keep doing this you will have some great photos.
Understand what you say about pictures looking different than you think they would look. But the viewfinder is 100% and you can see what happens when changing aperture and shutter using M, so after some time you will know more about how the result will be. Just do it over and over.
Good idea to use only LCD for some time. And tell us what you think. If you are going for small cameras get used to LCD or you have to pay a lot if there are external viewfinders.
PaulRivers
Veteran Member
I do think this year was the end of the optical viewfinders on compacts, especially for Canon - their sd780 (a tiny, pocketable camera) had a viewfinder for some reason, but that was the line it seems - after that, everything else has pretty much dropped it, from the sd940 which replaced the sd780, to the s90 which is a more advanced pocket camera.
I appreciate your thought out response, but I did see a couple of things I disagreed with a little -
I've seen several optical viewfinder on compacts, and I've always found them difficult to see through under any light.
Yup, IS does help
True, but most people don't turn them off anyways. Might matter if you're on a weeks long vacation, other than that battery life seems to be good enough.
It's true, but the compact optical viewfinders I've seen are so small I could try action anyways.
True, though you can guestimate it somewhat using your eyeballs.
Again, I've always had trouble seeing that with the tiny viewfinders they put on compacts anyways.
Another approach is to frame the shot in the lcd, then keep the camera steady and just use your eyes (without looking through the camera) to figure out when to press the shutter. A lot of time if I put the camera just below my line of sight it's fairly easy to do (granted, assuming your subjects aren't moving or moving fast).
That's a bummer, but is having to take off your glasses to use a viewfinder better?
filibuster
Senior Member
Under certain circumstances the lcd is not enough.
These shots could not have been captured with the lcd because using continuous shooting mode (where you select the best shot from many,) the lcd would blank out after the first shot and you would lose track of your subject. (Especially at the speed some of these critters move.) So the ovf is a must have feature on some shooting occasions. Don’t limit your photography to just scapes, macros or portraits just because it is a compact, otherwise you might just as well get rid of the burst mode feature on the camera as well.
I thought Robert Anderson summed it up nicely with his pros and cons.
Quote hhgttg: Life is wasted on the living.
filibuster (Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, UK)
http://picasaweb.google.com/scenic.filibuster
These shots could not have been captured with the lcd because using continuous shooting mode (where you select the best shot from many,) the lcd would blank out after the first shot and you would lose track of your subject. (Especially at the speed some of these critters move.) So the ovf is a must have feature on some shooting occasions. Don’t limit your photography to just scapes, macros or portraits just because it is a compact, otherwise you might just as well get rid of the burst mode feature on the camera as well.
I thought Robert Anderson summed it up nicely with his pros and cons.
Quote hhgttg: Life is wasted on the living.
filibuster (Bromsgrove, Worcestershire, UK)
http://picasaweb.google.com/scenic.filibuster
Jack West
Senior Member
well i'm 62 and i've been snappin & putin for about 5 yrs. now. my big boy is a nikon d-300 [awesome viewfinder naturally]. - late last yr. i got the SX20 and don't like the viewfinder as it is a small dark tunnel to me. i'm not wild with the build quality either but i'll make do with all that as it was inexpensive. i got the S90 and like it much better. it has no viewfinder but there's a great tripod mount add on that i got that i really love. it's like having a huge bright viewfinder that you put your eye up to. this guy with a nice dslr had a stunned look as he watched me snap at red rock the other day. i had to chuckle as it looks a little odd. the bottom line for me is i love viewfinders and use the back lcd for histograms & menu stuff. it looks like you are right about viewfinders on P&S cameras [all brands] are out now - too bad. holding a little camera with your arms out like that just doesn't do it for me. best regards & happy snappin!
Don_Campbell
Senior Member
I'm not sure what age has to do with this topic exactly, but I'm a little older than Jack West. I have a Canon S45--a reasonably small P&S that fits into a roomy pocket. It is small but still has enough room for both an optical viewfinder and an LCD. The viewfinder is an essential component for the S45 because the LCD on the back becomes useless outdoors in moderate light.
When shopping for a new P&S I worried about the lack of viewfinder on an SX200. I asked the guy in the camera store if I could take it outside in the sunshine and see if it worked well enough for my purposes. He was accommodating and out I went with the camera. The screen was quite usable on a bright summer day. It didn't end up selling me on the camera itself but it was helpful to know that the screen would work.
I ended up buying an SX20, which I like quite a bit. I use the articulating screen a lot--especially for near-macro closeups in which the camera is close to the ground and the screen allows me to see without lying down. The brightness of the LCD screen can be set to one of 5 different levels from the menu. Conveniently, pressing the DISP button for a second takes the screen directly to the brightest level--another 1 sec press takes it back to the preset level.
I find the EVF of the SX20 very useful especially when the zoom is fully out. It is a more accurate way to point with such a narrow field of view and it works reasonably well for shooting birds, including birds in flight. Basically I find both ways to view for shooting are useful and I'd miss one if I only had the other. I've considered adding an S90 to my kit, but I'm still enjoying my SX20 so much that I'm not very motivated yet. I may find that I wait for another model cycle before going for another pocketable camera--my S45 still takes great photos, including raw mode, although only at 4 MP.
Don
When shopping for a new P&S I worried about the lack of viewfinder on an SX200. I asked the guy in the camera store if I could take it outside in the sunshine and see if it worked well enough for my purposes. He was accommodating and out I went with the camera. The screen was quite usable on a bright summer day. It didn't end up selling me on the camera itself but it was helpful to know that the screen would work.
I ended up buying an SX20, which I like quite a bit. I use the articulating screen a lot--especially for near-macro closeups in which the camera is close to the ground and the screen allows me to see without lying down. The brightness of the LCD screen can be set to one of 5 different levels from the menu. Conveniently, pressing the DISP button for a second takes the screen directly to the brightest level--another 1 sec press takes it back to the preset level.
I find the EVF of the SX20 very useful especially when the zoom is fully out. It is a more accurate way to point with such a narrow field of view and it works reasonably well for shooting birds, including birds in flight. Basically I find both ways to view for shooting are useful and I'd miss one if I only had the other. I've considered adding an S90 to my kit, but I'm still enjoying my SX20 so much that I'm not very motivated yet. I may find that I wait for another model cycle before going for another pocketable camera--my S45 still takes great photos, including raw mode, although only at 4 MP.
Don
Just an avid amatuer here....But as another poster mentioned, sometimes(and MOST times for me) the LCD isn't gonna cut it...I take 80% of my photos while kayaking or hiking...If I've the got time to unholster my camera, turn it on, aim and get off a one chance only shot..with one free hand...I consider myself lucky...I'm often even at the mercy of horrors of all horrors...auto mode....Some of us need a VF...problem is we are small minority... I'm resigned to the fact that my choices for a quality camera meeting my needs are extremly limited....Not looking for any simpathy here... just some understanding that we all can't adapt to using an LCD exclusively and still take the shots we want..
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'The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry' - Robert Burns
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'The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry' - Robert Burns
Definetly agree that the option of a viewfinder is needed. I have both the S3 and the SD1200. I mainly use the S3 for outdoor shots while on vacation, and the SD1200 for those spontaneous shots. I bought the SD1200 because it does have a viewfinder......I however find that I am rarely using it when it comes to the type of shots I am taking. The more planned types of shots that I am taking with the S3 has always been taken with the viewfinder (even as bad as it is). I think there is always going to be some who will want a viewfinder.......but is anyone listening?
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Veg, Veggie, Deb, Debbie, ....but please not Deborah
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Veg, Veggie, Deb, Debbie, ....but please not Deborah
Yes, we are a minority, and Canon does not seem to be listening. Some cameras have optional viewfinders, but they are expensive!
I find the viewfinder – even on the S2 – very useful also when things are happening fast. A little animal running and peeping out from behind a tree, camera to the eye and zooming at the same time. One of my best. But then I had done this a thousand times at a slower pace. Maybe I could have done the same with the LCD, if the sun was not so bright…
But it’s not a pocket camera. Maybe we oldfashioned people should ask Canon for a S90vf?
I find the viewfinder – even on the S2 – very useful also when things are happening fast. A little animal running and peeping out from behind a tree, camera to the eye and zooming at the same time. One of my best. But then I had done this a thousand times at a slower pace. Maybe I could have done the same with the LCD, if the sun was not so bright…
But it’s not a pocket camera. Maybe we oldfashioned people should ask Canon for a S90vf?
David Swanger
Well-known member
I've been using my Canon S5 with the LCD only over the past several days. Every time I pick up the camera I put my eye to the viewfinder first. Force of habit I guess. I'm still not used to using just the LCD but I'm trying.
An S90vf? I'm interested!!
I think you nailed that right on. I use my a720 outside, in bright light, to take pictures of moving objects in continuous mode. That would be just about impossible without a viewfinder. Sure it isn't the best tool for the job, but it does get the job done and can be slipped back into my pocket.
It doesn't have to be optical and it doesn't have to be built into the camera but I won't buy a camera without a viewfinder.
Scales USA
Senior Member
I call the cameras without viewfinders point and hope cameras, since outdoors in bright sunlight, you just point them and hope you get what you wanted. Pretty useless, in my opinion.
I bought a G11 for my wife to use, she will not put up with a camera with no viewfinder, and I've talked to other point and shoot owners who found their camera to be useless outdoors without a viewfinder. Many of them bought their camera, and did not even know it had no viewfinder, and only found out the reality when they went outdoors to take a photo.
I bought a G11 for my wife to use, she will not put up with a camera with no viewfinder, and I've talked to other point and shoot owners who found their camera to be useless outdoors without a viewfinder. Many of them bought their camera, and did not even know it had no viewfinder, and only found out the reality when they went outdoors to take a photo.
Gary R.
Senior Member
David, I didn't see this in the thread, so maybe it will help. We make the ClearViewer, which is an up-to-the-eye lens that mounts in the tripod socket (or hotshoe if the camera has one) and folds flat against the LCD to store the camera away, so it doesn't ruin one of the best features, the compactness of your small camera.
It was developed originally for my LX3, but has been very popular with other models that have only an LCD, and in some cases a poor optical finder. The problems of reflections, bright ambient light, and being able to see detail like those smiling faces mentioned elsewhere are handled nicely. And you get the displayed information, and exposure and focus feedback because it's the LCD.
While the suggestion of forcing yourself to use an LCD might be worth a try, I think it's a case of getting used to the idea of not really being able to see what you're shooting that well. Close-up vision varies among people and with age, and unless you can get up to just 3-4 inches from the LCD and see it sharply, you're not going to force yourself to be able to see it any better. Some folks either are satisfied with that view, or can see better than others, and just can't comprehend that it's not the case for everyone.
Anyway, not too long ago I wouldn't even consider any camera without a viewfinder, due to having an LCD-only camcorder in the past. And my LX3 would be spending a lot more time in its case or a pocket, because I like to be able to see what I'm shooting, not an approximation or a general overview or wild guess. With the Clearviewer, it's no longer an issue.
It doesn't appear that they're exactly racing to provide viewfinders on compacts, and even on the higher end models, the add-on EVF or optical finders are bringing $200-300.
So anyway, there is a 'fix', and it won't ruin the pocketability of whatever you end up with. http://www.clearviewer.com
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Gary
Photo albums: http://www.pbase.com/roberthouse
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